confused

[Karraster]

There's much confusion in the world, and many falsehoods within the Church, no surprise for we know the adversary is the prince of this world, but we can find answers with prayer and obedience to truth whenever He has so graciously imparted it. (parable of the talents)

Hell has been mistranslated and only means the grave, it is not the lake of fire..and death is sleep/unconscious. No one has ascended except Messiah, the one who descended. All the dead will be raised when Messiah returns.

The souls that cry out under the alter, is that not as Abel's blood crying out? It is figurative, not literal. As well, Abraham's bosom is best understood thru eyes of Hebrew and not Greek. That parable is figurative as well. If one were in the lake of fire, would a moistening of the lips really do any good? I don't see how.

These are merely my understandings as of today, and strongly urge all to diligently seek truth! the scriptures were written by Hebrews. What better way to figure them out than to look at their culture of that day, see what those words meant to them. Scriptures say even a child can know, but what we don't seem to think of is the Hebrew child in that day in that culture. Likewise, I doubt one from 2000 yrs ago would get my meaning if I said that something cost me "an arm and a leg".

Keep seeking..and you will find.

 

[phil112]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die. I know there is a heaven and hell, I know that for sure. It's just do we automatically go there right after death, or do we just go to sleep until jesus comes again and then we will be judged and be sent where we are destined to be then on. Does it say that in the bible anywhere. That the dead will walk among the living and there is going to be a new heaven.

If we don't go straight there then why do preachers talk about it and at funerals they talk about how the dead are in heaven watching over us now. I hope that someone can help me to understand this better.

Tella

I believe this will give an indication of what reality is concerning our whereabouts at death. I have studied Josephus and believe there to be a great deal of veracity in his works.

Chapter 1 - The Works of Flavius Josephus

 

[Word_Swordsman]

There's much confusion in the world, and many falsehoods within the Church, no surprise for we know the adversary is the prince of this world, but we can find answers with prayer and obedience to truth whenever He has so graciously imparted it. (parable of the talents)

Hell has been mistranslated and only means the grave, it is not the lake of fire..and death is sleep/unconscious. No one has ascended except Messiah, the one who descended. All the dead will be raised when Messiah returns.

The souls that cry out under the alter, is that not as Abel's blood crying out? It is figurative, not literal. As well, Abraham's bosom is best understood thru eyes of Hebrew and not Greek. That parable is figurative as well. If one were in the lake of fire, would a moistening of the lips really do any good? I don't see how.

These are merely my understandings as of today, and strongly urge all to diligently seek truth! the scriptures were written by Hebrews. What better way to figure them out than to look at their culture of that day, see what those words meant to them. Scriptures say even a child can know, but what we don't seem to think of is the Hebrew child in that day in that culture. Likewise, I doubt one from 2000 yrs ago would get my meaning if I said that something cost me "an arm and a leg".

Keep seeking..and you will find.

I'll help you find.

Apparently you believe all who are put in a grave are the wicked. Are you going to be counted as wicked among the wicked?

When Jesus was resurrected this happened to many bodies in graves....Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV)
[SUP]52 [/SUP] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[SUP]53 [/SUP] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

That required what we call a rapture, few if any of those bodies not decomposed, requirng restoration enough to walk around, and no, the resurrection of Jesus would not be connected to "zombies". They are not recorded as returning to their graves. So where did they go? I'll let you ponder on that.

Psalm 9:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

That English word Hell is from the Hebrew Sheol.

Here's a pretty close "Hebrew" concept of sheol's location and reality that fits many old testament references to a place far more troublesome than a shallow grave that can erode away or simply become dust, where the dead assemble rich and poor, famous and unknown. SHEOL - JewishEncyclopedia.com

In addition to the Hebrew understanding, we have this: 2 Peter 2:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

There the English "Hell" taken from the Greek tartaroo, those angels not cast into mere graves like men, but cast into the deepest part of Hell, "Hades", there held for judgment. They didn't die to get there. They were cast out of heaven like Satan was and when he was, a third of all the angels.... Luke 10:18-19 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

It's another straw man argument to put the lake of fire up as though anyone here has said anyone has been cast into it already. Maybe it was said, but too few times for me to read it. So why say that as a part of a discussion position? It is not mentioned anywhere until Rev 19:20. At that time hell itself will be cast in. There is no indication in the Bible that means the graves of all the dead will be cast in. Why cast in graves of the righteous who will be witnessing the casting in of Hell? That doesn't make sense at all. Hell is not the grave of men. Too many peculiar Hebrew and Greek words exist for them to be the same.

 

[fredjames]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die. I know there is a heaven and hell, I know that for sure. It's just do we automatically go there right after death, or do we just go to sleep until jesus comes again and then we will be judged and be sent where we are destined to be then on. Does it say that in the bible anywhere. That the dead will walk among the living and there is going to be a new heaven.

If we don't go straight there then why do preachers talk about it and at funerals they talk about how the dead are in heaven watching over us now. I hope that someone can help me to understand this better.

Tella

Respectful and honorable question of a lamb of GOD, for CHRIST in discipleship. i have also witnessed the same in funerals, where it is easy and smart and do and say what every Christian church practice. These are majoritively believed and practiced by OSAS believers, as also Catholics.

Most probably they may refer to the parable of CHRIST in the Gospel, about 'Lazarus and the rich man'.

But this contradicts with what Apostle Paul shares in the epistle to the Thessalonians that, 'the dead in Christ shall rise up first'.

LORD JESUS CHRIST used parables to teach, 'what the Kingdom of GOD is like' and GOD's righteous judgement, on two kind of individuals, while one lived poor and the other wealthy, while one suffered and the other enjoyed and ignored one's sufferings. HE taught in this method by the will of HIS FATHER, to the unlearned ordinary people, especially HIS disciples.

This and many other teachings of the MESSIAH for HIS true believers are to, upon receiving salvation, continue/keep/abide these and practice a manner of true repent-full way to GOD's place of rest in Heaven. This also comes in support to what Apostle Paul said to the churches and is written for our witnessing that'

"Workout your own salvation in fear and trembling."

Apostle Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians is a prophecy about the unexpected coming of the LORD and the meeting together in the clouds, of the persecuted saints for the Gospel sake, in order for all born again believers to know what to expect in faith in the future that will take place as promised signs.

We must only stand to what is written which is, 'for now what we see, is through a cloudy mirror, but later we will know all things'.

For me i would stand to what Apostle Paul says. There may be a waiting place where these saints are asleep, here on earth. And they shall rise up and taken up, upon the first return of their LORD, to meet at the clouds.

Meantime also for me, as been called, to 'seek ye first the Kingdom of GOD and HIS righteousness', i must consider first my daily 'aiding' life in the 'words' and 'love' of LORD JESUS CHRIST, written in the New Covenant and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT to 'abide', in order to bear fruits and also my fruit must 'abide' in them too.

In simple term of understanding, 'asleep' means someone is sleeping for the meantime, until the gospel is preached to all the nations and later they will be awaken in order to return home first.

The 'living', are those who 'abide' in the 'words' and 'love' of Spiritual sound doctrine knowledge of 'spirit' and 'life', written in the New Covenant, that was taught to them by the HOLY SPIRIT and they persevere tribulation and persecution and bear fruits.

The other word 'dead' is, about those born again Christians 'who remain and live in the thinking and according to the works of the flesh/carnality, who face death once again, accoring to the written Romans chapter 8. This also reflects to the 'workers of iniquity/ lawlessness' whom the LORD rejects.

And the other who are 'dead' are, those who have not welcomed the four Gospels (also including Christians, even Catholics)

Thank you and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Karraster]

WS, frankly I disagree with almost everything you say, and I don't care to go round and round over it all. Messiah was the firstfruit, and He had not ascended yet when He was first seen after He arose. Those who came out of the grave we are not told, but I suspect it was like the others Messiah raised from the dead, because of John 1:13 for 1.

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

as for the rest of what you say, fine, whatever.

 

[oldhermit]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die. I know there is a heaven and hell, I know that for sure. It's just do we automatically go there right after death, or do we just go to sleep until jesus comes again and then we will be judged and be sent where we are destined to be then on. Does it say that in the bible anywhere. That the dead will walk among the living and there is going to be a new heaven.

If we don't go straight there then why do preachers talk about it and at funerals they talk about how the dead are in heaven watching over us now. I hope that someone can help me to understand this better.

Tella

I think the best answer to you question is probably found in Luke 16 were Jesus speaks of the state of the dead as being either a state of torment of comfort depending on whether one has been faithful or unfaithful. The place where these two men are found is the hadean realm that is divided into two separated receptacles. Jesus indicates this is a place of consciousness for disembodied spirits. We also learn from other passages that hades is a temporary place where the dead await the day of judgment. In Revelation 20:14 we are told that in the end both death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[fredjames]

WS, frankly I disagree with almost everything you say, and I don't care to go round and round over it all. Messiah was the firstfruit, and He had not ascended yet when He was first seen after He arose. Those who came out of the grave we are not told, but I suspect it was like the others Messiah raised from the dead, because of John 1:13 for 1.

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

as for the rest of what you say, fine, whatever.

You may disagree all you want and you have the right to do so. But i too disagree with you how can a dead person died and buried for many years, not knowing the remains or will there be, at the day of being raised to life and taken up.

Moreover the ones JESUS raised up were still in their body, who were at least dead for a few days and their bodies were nor rotten yet.

Remember the thief on the cross beside JESUS?

LORD JESUS CHRIST said to him that;

"This day you will be with me in paradise."

Isn't paradise is referred to as the garden of Eden?

Isn't there a GOD placed cherubim to not to let any mankind enter, that least he or she eat the fruit of the 'tree of life'?

In other revelation words, this garden's existence initially here on earth, where four famous rivers flowed out it, to this world, therefore releasing fresh spring of water, for all flesh and blood to quench their thirst, were made even invisible to all flesh and blood.

May be these are off course to the truth but also be considerable?

Or may be wherever they may be buried as Christians in this world generation after generations, they will just be raised in their body and before the twinkling of the eyes, they will be changed to the Heavenly body and meet the LORD in the clouds?

Yes, HE is the first-fruit of resurrection ascended into Heaven, not to rest, but also to serve GOD, as a Great High Priest on behalf of HIS lambs and sheep in one body laboring here on earth.

If once people die and immediately they go to Heaven, then why Apostle Paul say to the Thessalonians church that the dead in CHRIST (Christians/Church) shall rise from their grave and be changed?

And then the living, who are alive and obeying and doing GOD's will, that is according to HIS written New Covenant teachings of CHRIST in practice.

And the once who neglect not ready for the unknown hour (as the other 'five virgins' who were 'not prepared enough' to meet the bridegroom), will be 'left behind'.

These that i share is not to force anyone to believe and eat but about beyond a reasonable doubt something to consider.

Then again, as it is written most importantly, in order not to be missed out on that significant day, that;

"Seek ye first the Kingdom of GOD and HIS righteousness .................................................................."

Not to change the topic but this is actually the most important topic to remember and as it is written that, sometimes we are just wasting our time and being deceived by other things that are not important, because rather than being in 'Grace and Truth(Gospel)' obedience and in witnessing labor to the lost and ignorant, as we are called to 'abide', but rather in debate and contention and challenge with one another and non-believers.

Thank you and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Saint-John]

I go with ....
1Co 15v51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
(dead in trespass and sin..biologically dead )....

no pearly gate stuff with Peter checking passports for eternity

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Re 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

etc





.....

 

[fredjames]

I go with ....
1Co 15v51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
(dead in trespass and sin..biologically dead )....

no pearly gate stuff with Peter checking passports for eternity

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Re 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

etc





.....

As it is written;

"Let us all not become teachers, for teachers will be greatly judged."

According to Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 15; 51, he is talking about the same, as he also mentioned to the Thessalonian church. They are the immortal believers, the ones who are not asleep and the ones asleep and 'they worship the FATHER in spirit and truth' church, some who are still not dead, still living for CHRIST, practicing the New Covenant and are witnesses of the Gospel, ministering to the lost world.

And also not forgetting, there are buried spiritual forefathers fro CHRIST, who are considered asleep and they are also immortal, both ready for the LORD, to be changed together and taken up.

 

[john832]

The dead in Christ are those not in a functioning earthen vessel. We dont know what we shall be, but we know we will be lkke Him, for we will see Him as He is. When the new earth is revealed, we will have earthen vessels made out of the new earth.

The dead in Christ are DEAD. That is why we await the resurrection...

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Now I know someone will come along and try to propose the foolishness that this is just the body being resurrected. In fact, Paul shoots this down rather handily...

1Co 15:35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

 

[john832]

I go with ....
1Co 15v51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
(dead in trespass and sin..biologically dead )....

no pearly gate stuff with Peter checking passports for eternity

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Re 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

etc





.....

You mean to tell me we don't go to heaven?

Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

You are absolutely correct here, we don't go there, Christ comes here. He even tells us that...

Joh 13:33 Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, 'Where I am going, you cannot come,' so now I say to you.

Luk 19:12 Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Where is He coming to?

Zec 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

 

[Kaycie]

Luke 16:19-31 goes into this kind of detail. I think of it as two waiting rooms for the judgement day, but it is clear to see where you will go after the judgement by which place you're in. When He gathers everyone together for judgement will we not remember these holding places? Idk, I don't have all the answers.

When Jesus speaks of the dead He refers to them as being asleep, but maybe they are just asleep to us, from our point of view. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus these souls were conscience, they could think, talk, and feel. The bible says it is appointed for man to live once then face judgement.

I know paradise, what I think of as the waiting room for the righteous until judgement, is not heaven. Heaven is when God will dwell directly with His people forever more. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. (The new earth will not be physical, I believe it is hell, that's a whole other topic). I think when it's mentioned at funerals they are referring to the very end result, when all is said and done. If I go to church but first go through the drive thru to grab a cup of coffee, the main topic is still going to church. No matter where we are between death and judgement, the main destination is the end result after judgement.

 

[Hizikyah]

The dead in Christ are DEAD. That is why we await the resurrection...

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Now I know someone will come along and try to propose the foolishness that this is just the body being resurrected. In fact, Paul shoots this down rather handily...

1Co 15:35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?"
1Co 15:36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

"That is why we await the resurrection"

Right, why would there need to be a resurrection if they were already there...


Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

 

[Kaycie]

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.[/QUOTE]

Heaven is different than paradise. Jesus told the thief on the cross TODAY you will be with Me in paradise.

 

[john832]

Luke 16:19-31 goes into this kind of detail. I think of it as two waiting rooms for the judgement day, but it is clear to see where you will go after the judgement by which place you're in. When He gathers everyone together for judgement will we not remember these holding places? Idk, I don't have all the answers.

When Jesus speaks of the dead He refers to them as being asleep, but maybe they are just asleep to us, from our point of view. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus these souls were conscience, they could think, talk, and feel. The bible says it is appointed for man to live once then face judgement.

I know paradise, what I think of as the waiting room for the righteous until judgement, is not heaven. Heaven is when God will dwell directly with His people forever more. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. (The new earth will not be physical, I believe it is hell, that's a whole other topic). I think when it's mentioned at funerals they are referring to the very end result, when all is said and done. If I go to church but first go through the drive thru to grab a cup of coffee, the main topic is still going to church. No matter where we are between death and judgement, the main destination is the end result after judgement.

Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable. Never build doctrine on parables.

 

[john832]

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Heaven is different than paradise. Jesus told the thief on the cross TODAY you will be with Me in paradise.[/QUOTE]

Well, let's just see if that holds up...

2Co 12:1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord:
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—
2Co 12:4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Heaven and Paradise are the same place.

 

[john832]

There is a really big problem with the thief being in Paradise that day. Let's look into it...

Luk 23:42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

First thing we notice is the thief says "remember me". Now why would he need to be remembered if that were going to happen that very day? Anyhoo, let's read on...

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Notice the commas? They weren't in the original text. They were added around the twelfth century. The original had no punctuation, so the comma after the word "you" was added. It is not inspired text.

Now for the real problem, if the thief went to Heaven or Paradise, one in the same (II Cor 12:1-4), that very day, then the scripture has been broken. Who was the Firstborn among many brethren?

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now, when was Christ crucified? Wednesday, April 15, 31 AD. When was He resurrected? Sabbath, April 28, 31AD. Then when did He appear to Mary? Sunday, April 29, 31AD. So Christ appeared three days and four nights later. What did He say?

Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

Christ had NOT ascended to Heaven three days and four nights AFTER the thief incident. So if the thief went to Heaven that very day, he was the firstborn among many brethren instead of Christ.

In actuality, the sentence should have been punctuated as follows...

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."

I am telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

 

[phil112]

There is a really big problem with the thief being in Paradise that day. Let's look into it...

Luk 23:42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

First thing we notice is the thief says "remember me". Now why would he need to be remembered if that were going to happen that very day? Anyhoo, let's read on...

....................

Now, either you're being silly or your reading comprehension is sadly lacking. The thief spoke first. He didn't know what Christ hadn't yet spoken. The only thing he knew was that eternity awaited and Christ had all authority in the next realm. That was what his appeal was to. He was not a fortune teller, he was a thief.

 

[john832]

Now, either you're being silly or your reading comprehension is sadly lacking. The thief spoke first. He didn't know what Christ hadn't yet spoken. The only thing he knew was that eternity awaited and Christ had all authority in the next realm. That was what his appeal was to. He was not a fortune teller, he was a thief.

OK, so the thief went to Paradise that very day and Christ went three days and four nights later and the thief really was the firstborn among many brethren. OK, got it.

 

[Hizikyah]

OK, so the thief went to Paradise that very day and Christ went three days and four nights later and the thief really was the firstborn among many brethren. OK, got it.

1 Corinthians 15:20, "But the fact is that Messiah has been raised from the dead, and has become the firstfriuts of those who have fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:23, "But each in his own order: Messiah the firstfruits, afterward, those who are Messiah's at His coming."