Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[Jackson123]

The Scriptures say that those who are his have crucified the affections and lusts. Meaning, the saints have perfected themselves.

In other words, it has to do with your approach and attitude towards sin. What do you do when you sin? Do you just think you are forgiven and move on? Or do you confess that sin and strive to forsake it with God's help knowing that sin can cause you destruction of your very soul? For what purpose is their to confess your sin if you are saved anyways?

Is it based off some false notion of restoring fellowship while being saved?

I say that because Romans 8:9 says that if you do not have the Spirit of Christ you do not belong to Him. I say this because 1 John 5:12 says, "He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life." I say this because John 17:3 says that eternal life is that we might know the only true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing someone is having fellowship whichh is tied to eternal life.

Thank bro,

I myself still straggle with the sin, but yes I believe, our goal is be perfect like Him.

 

[notuptome]

Yes, I know God's grace. Not a false grace. But a true grace by God's Word and by His Spirit. True believers do not cling to their sin. They repent and or confess of their sins. True believers do not abide in unrepentant sin (of which I do). Anyone who refuses to repent of their sins, especially when being convicted to do so by the Spirit is not forgiven. For the Scriptures say that if one does not forgive others, then they will not be forgiven. If one has hate towards their brother, they do not have eternal life abiding within them. This is all written in Scripture. I do not need to post the verses. You should be aware of them.

All sin is forgiven when a person receives Christ as their Savior. All sin. Romans tells us that there in no more condemnation in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1 Our sanctification is not complete but our salvation is complete.

No, dear sir. You discount the proper teaching of the blood within Scripture. Read 1 John 1:7 again. It says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin; And 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. What happens to all liars? (See Revelation 21:8).

We who are saved have an advocate before the Father in heaven. Jesus Christ intercedes for us as our High Priest. Hebrews 7:25 First John also tells us if we say we have no sin we lie. We are saved only one time and it is for eternity. We walk daily with the Lord and sometimes we stumble. We are not lost but are needing to call upon Him for strength. The flesh is weak but the Spirit is willing. Sanctification is a process begun the moment we were saved.

Elephants are gray but not all gray things are elephants. Salvation is complete the moment we believe. Sanctification is complete the moment we are in the presence of our Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Well they are saved on the day of Christ's return if they are believers or they are not if they aren't.

Jason, nobody is perfect. Even the most devout Christian on this forum or in the whole world who's only sin is to be late returning a library book is seen as a sinner to God the same way as he would see a deliberate sinner.

A sin is a sin is a sin to God. It doesn't matter how great that sin is or how small it is.

Since everyone is born in sin (Psalm 51:5) when they are born (because of Eve's doings).

We are all walking in darkness. Even if we confess and believe we are walking in the light (by being a Good Christian, always attending church, doing good deeds etc).

I can say I have fellowship with God and the Lord even if I dont attend church and do all the good Christian stuff.

Because I believe that God exists and that He will bring us all to the finish line.

And we will have an eternity to make up for it.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

Amen,.

As for your implication of all sin being the same: Well, 1 John 5:16 refutes such thinking, my friend.

The Meaning of 1st John Chapter 5 Verse 16
(A Quick Overview Using Various Scripture Verses):

1 John 5:16 is clearly talking about how the Christian needs to pray for another believer sins in regards to His spiritual condition. These sins can either be transgressions that do not lead unto spiritual death and or they can be sins that do in fact lead unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

#1. The Believer's Sin that does NOT lead unto Death are:

• (a) Sins that are truly confessed to God and cleansed (1 John 1:9)

• (b) Hidden faults or "non second death sins" done out of ignorance (Psalms 19:12), which is part of falling short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

If a believer sees another believer commit a sin that they know they are confessing (i.e. a sin that does not lead unto death), they are to pray for life (i.e. everlasting life) to continue to flow within their life. This is the hope that they continue to abide in the Lord and His righteousness.

#2. The Believer's and Unbelievers's Sin that leads unto Death are:

• (a) Unconfessed or unrepented sins that lead unto the second death (Revelation 21:8).
  ~ Such unrepentant or unconfessed sins would include murder, hate, lusting, drunkenness, unbelief, lying, robbery, idolatry, adultery, and coveting, etc (Revelation 21:8) (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Romans 1:28-32).

If a believer sees another believer not confessing their sins and (i.e. a sin unto death) and they are refusing to confess or repent of it, they are admonished not to neglect to pray for them, as well.

1 John 5:16 NLT - "If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it."

As for your Psalm 51:5 reference:

Well, while we may all have been born into sin. But this is talking about our first birth. Our physical birth. We have to be born again spiritually a second time by repenting of our sins and accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior. We do not live like the old man. But we live like the new man. If not, then one is not born again. For a person who is born again will act, and behave differently than the old man. They are changed. They are different. Because they have been changed and washed by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. That is how we are saved. If we know we have been changed. If see no change, then one is no different than the old man. For when one is born again, they are not born into sin, but they are born into the Spirit. They are forever seeking the things of the Spirit and not the flesh or sin. Sin will repulse the new born again person. If not, then they are not born again.

 

[Jason0047]

All sin is forgiven when a person receives Christ as their Savior. All sin. Romans tells us that there in no more condemnation in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1 Our sanctification is not complete but our salvation is complete.

I already mentioned Romans 8:1 already within this thread.

Romans 8:1 actually refutes OSAS. It says if we are not under the Condemnation if we walk after the Spirit and NOT after the flesh. The Condemnation is defined for us in John 3:19-20. The Condemnation says, "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

We who are saved have an advocate before the Father in heaven. Jesus Christ intercedes for us as our High Priest. Hebrews 7:25 First John also tells us if we say we have no sin we lie. We are saved only one time and it is for eternity. We walk daily with the Lord and sometimes we stumble. We are not lost but are needing to call upon Him for strength. The flesh is weak but the Spirit is willing. Sanctification is a process begun the moment we were saved.

Elephants are gray but not all gray things are elephants. Salvation is complete the moment we believe. Sanctification is complete the moment we are in the presence of our Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1 John 2:1 says we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ when we sin. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness; And all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). This is how Jesus acts as our advocate or high priest. Jesus is not going to confess your sins for you; And there is no Scripture verse that says all future sin is forgiven for you. On the contrary, Scripture teaches only past sins that we confess are forgiven.

 

[Rudimental]

You obviously need to read 1 John 1:6-9 and 1 John 2:1, and 2 Corinthians 7:10 again. These verses refute the type of belief that you are trying to push that goes beyond the Word of God.

No, they don't.

And no, I don't. But I will again for the sake of it.

1 John 2:1. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I think that verse contradicts you. Because to me, that is like saying, hey don't worry if you sin, because Jesus has already paid the penalty for that.

What then should we carry on sinning? No! Of course not. But when we do (and all of us here probably will) we can faithfully go to Him and confess them and be forgiven and cleansed of those sins. (This is referring to Christ's work on the Cross NOT YOUR SINGLE CONFESSION!).

John 1:6-9. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Corinthians 7:10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

How do these 3 scriptures "refute the type of belief that you (me) are (was) trying (apparently trying and failing) to push"?

For starters, I wasn't "trying" to push anything. I have been subtle with you up to now but now I am going to tell you that you are point blank wrong my brother. You are wrong if you think a man can loose his salvation.

You think God gives a gift and then takes it away again if he is naughty?

You think that God makes mistakes?

If you think that you don't really know God at all brother.

So what are you saying then exactly?

I am telling you now flat out. The confession was already made the day you claimed Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

Now every time you commit a sin, you will recognize it and say your sorries and confess it sure.

But you think God takes any pleasure in hearing you grumble over your sins all day long?

He wants us to be happy and focus on Him not our sins that we may or may not have committed.

I hope you can see it more clearly now.

 

[Jason0047]

Thank bro,

I myself still straggle with the sin, but yes I believe, our goal is be perfect like Him.

Well, if you continue to confess your sin and strive to forsake it with the Lord, then.... you are most welcome, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

No, they don't.

And no, I don't. But I will again for the sake of it.

1 John 2:1. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I think that verse contradicts you. Because to me, that is like saying, hey don't worry if you sin, because Jesus has already paid the penalty for that.

What then should we carry on sinning? No! Of course not. But when we do (and all of us here probably will) we can faithfully go to Him and confess them and be forgiven and cleansed of those sins. (This is referring to Christ's work on the Cross NOT YOUR SINGLE CONFESSION!).

John 1:6-9. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Corinthians 7:10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

How do these 3 scriptures "refute the type of belief that you (me) are (was) trying (apparently trying and failing) to push"?

For starters, I wasn't "trying" to push anything. I have been subtle with you up to now but now I am going to tell you that you are point blank wrong my brother. You are wrong if you think a man can loose his salvation.

You think God gives a gift and then takes it away again if he is naughty?

You think that God makes mistakes?

If you think that you don't really know God at all brother.

So what are you saying then exactly?

I am telling you now flat out. The confession was already made the day you claimed Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

Now every time you commit a sin, you will recognize it and say your sorries and confess it sure.

But you think God takes any pleasure in hearing you grumble over your sins all day long?

He wants us to be happy and focus on Him not our sins that we may or may not have committed.

I hope you can see it more clearly now.

You didn't make anything clear. You did not explain those passages in light of your belief in OSAS. The only way of escape for you to explain these passages away is to believe in MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalism), which is another false doctrine that teaches that there are two or more gospels.

Side Note:

Anyways, when I say explain those passages, I am saying explain each word and how it might relate with other Scripture and or the context (i.e. the surrounding passages).

 

[Reborn]

Well, I guess Adam and all the OT saints are not gonna make it into heaven then. For Jesus said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

If this is any indication to what you have learned and is the foundation on which you preach. Wow.

I only ask, how can someone who does not understand what "the Kingdom of God" is even begin to think they can teach?
Let alone "guide" others along on finding out what is "right" and what is "wrong" for those who follow our Lord?

What does Luke 17:20 mean to you?

If you are unclear, or will guess, or will defend it somehow by twisting it ----without ever coming back to EXACTLY what it means when Jesus told the Pharisees here.......the maybe you should just consider stopping brother?

Seriously! Not understanding VERY key scripture in the Bible, could lead to you misguiding the few that might take what you teach to heart?

 

[Rudimental]

You didn't make anything clear. You did not explain those passages in light of your belief in OSAS. The only way of escape for you to explain these passages away is to believe in MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalism), which is another false doctrine that teaches that there are two or more gospels.

You need to step outside and get a breath of fresh air bro.

You use all these big words as though I need to learn something to understand you and if I try to share with you my own opinion you tell me I'm wrong and I am the one that needs to go back to scripture again. The same for everyone else here.

Just out of interest. Are you a practicing born again Christian? Or are you one of those pretend-to-know-it-all type of people because that is the impression I get of you to be honest friend.

I do not believe in any false doctrine. I believe what is clear even unto children. That God has made foolish the wise people of the world, that God uses the weak the defeat the strong. God has made it all as confusing as is possible to the unbeliever yet of pure simplicity to the believer.

I believe that ALL of the King James Bible is the truth. Nevermind all these anagrams OSAS or MAD or all these big words you know that make you look clever when you say them.

Once Saved Always Saved.

God does not take away the gifts He gives. If He did, it would be to replace it with something better!

Read the bible because it contains...

Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth

 

[Jason0047]

If this is any indication to what you have learned and is the foundation on which you preach. Wow.

I only ask, how can someone who does not understand what "the Kingdom of God" is even begin to think they can teach?
Let alone "guide" others along on finding out what is "right" and what is "wrong" for those who follow our Lord?

What does Luke 17:20 mean to you?

If you are unclear, or will guess, or will defend it somehow by twisting it ----without ever coming back to EXACTLY what it means when Jesus told the Pharisees here.......the maybe you should just consider stopping brother?

Seriously! Not understanding VERY key scripture in the Bible, could lead to you misguiding the few that might take what you teach to heart?

Jesus was letting the Pharisees know that they could be a part of the Kingdom of God now in Luke 17:20. They thought that the Kingdom was something physical they should be looking for. When Jesus was trying to say that they could be in God's Kingdom now and they could His citizens now. For the Kingdom of God is within a person. Meaning, they can repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ and be born again spiritually, thereby becoming a son of God. For as many as received him, to them gave he ppower to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12). When we say "believe", it is believing Jesus Christ and his Word. Believing Jesus' teachings that come from Him and his apostles. For what Paul had said that what he had written was the Lord's commands. So all Scripture is profitable for doctrine.

 

[notuptome]

I already mentioned Romans 8:1 already within this thread.

Romans 8:1 actually refutes OSAS. It says if we are not under the Condemnation if we walk after the Spirit and NOT after the flesh. The Condemnation is defined for us in John 3:19-20. The Condemnation says, "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."



1 John 2:1 says we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ when we sin. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness; And all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). This is how Jesus acts as our advocate or high priest. Jesus is not going to confess your sins for you; And there is no Scripture verse that says all future sin is forgiven for you. On the contrary, Scripture teaches only past sins that we confess are forgiven.

All you are doing is preaching a gospel of fear. You do not distinguish between salvation and sanctification.

That begs the question are you a poor student of the bible or are you a dishonest student of the bible? In either case I cannot consider you a trustworthy student of the bible. There is no understanding of Gods love in what you assert.

God is not capricious. God went all the way to Calvary for you. God will not abandon you now. A disobedient child is subject to a spanking not an execution.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

You need to step outside and get a breath of fresh air bro.

You use all these big words as though I need to learn something to understand you and if I try to share with you my own opinion you tell me I'm wrong and I am the one that needs to go back to scripture again. The same for everyone else here.

Just out of interest. Are you a practicing born again Christian? Or are you one of those pretend-to-know-it-all type of people because that is the impression I get of you to be honest friend.

I do not believe in any false doctrine. I believe what is clear even unto children. That God has made foolish the wise people of the world, that God uses the weak the defeat the strong. God has made it all as confusing as is possible to the unbeliever yet of pure simplicity to the believer.

I believe that ALL of the King James Bible is the truth. Nevermind all these anagrams OSAS or MAD or all these big words you know that make you look clever when you say them.

Once Saved Always Saved.

God does not take away the gifts He gives. If He did, it would be to replace it with something better!

Read the bible because it contains...

Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth

I asked you to explain the words in the verses. Why are you not doing that? What are you tryng to avoid?

As for my walk with the Lord: Well, I am not perfect, but I do stay humble before the Lord and confess my sins and strive to walk uprightly with the Lord by His power and not mine. For without Him, I am nothing. I do not abide in unrepentant sin and do not think all my sin is taken away by a belief alone. The Scriptures do not teach that.

 

[newbirth]

All sin is forgiven when a person receives Christ as their Savior. All sin. Romans tells us that there in no more condemnation in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1 Our sanctification is not complete but our salvation is complete.

you cannot get away from vs 4
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We who are saved have an advocate before the Father in heaven. Jesus Christ intercedes for us as our High Priest. Hebrews 7:25

if you had no sin why do you need an advocate or an intercessor??? so we do sin after we are saved....and those sins need to be forgiven also...or are you contending you have pre forgiveness...for sins that you may commit in the future....

First John also tells us if we say we have no sin we lie. We are saved only one time and it is for eternity. We walk daily with the Lord and sometimes we stumble.

if you are saved for eternity....and you sin which we all do at some time....and those sins are not forgiven... are you saying you are saved and in Christ with that sin? and when you say stumble what exactly do you mean....is it that you thought about sinning or you sinned???? stumble gives the impression of one who almost fell or tripped and regained his composure...
stumbling is different from falling...and John did not say .....if we say we have not stumbled or almost sinned...

We are not lost but are needing to call upon Him for strength. The flesh is weak but the Spirit is willing.

have you ever heard the term ..lost in sin...???

Sanctification is a process begun the moment we were saved.

to sanctify in scripture means to set apart for holy use.... that is not a process....it is either you are apart or not...

Elephants are gray but not all gray things are elephants. Salvation is complete the moment we believe. Sanctification is complete the moment we are in the presence of our Savior.

one minute you say sanctiication is a process next you say it is complete....you don't even know what you believe....

 

[Jason0047]

All you are doing is preaching a gospel of fear. You do not distinguish between salvation and sanctification.

That begs the question are you a poor student of the bible or are you a dishonest student of the bible? In either case I cannot consider you a trustworthy student of the bible. There is no understanding of Gods love in what you assert.

God is not capricious. God went all the way to Calvary for you. God will not abandon you now. A disobedient child is subject to a spanking not an execution.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Meaning, sin is no joke. For sin put Jesus Christ on the cross. The OSAS proponent minimizes sin and treats it like it is a fluffly kitten. But sin separates a person from God. That is why 1 John 1:9 says that you are to confess your sins so as to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

 

[notuptome]

you cannot get away from vs 4
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Why would I want to? You are not making any sense.

if you had no sin why do you need an advocate or an intercessor??? so we do sin after we are saved....and those sins need to be forgiven also...or are you contending you have pre forgiveness...for sins that you may commit in the future....
if you are saved for eternity....and you sin which we all do at some time....and those sins are not forgiven... are you saying you are saved and in Christ with that sin? and when you say stumble what exactly do you mean....is it that you thought about sinning or you sinned???? stumble gives the impression of one who almost fell or tripped and regained his composure...
stumbling is different from falling...and John did not say .....if we say we have not stumbled or almost sinned...

All my sins are under the blood. All including the ones I have not yet sinned.

have you ever heard the term ..lost in sin...???

Have you ever heard the term all my sins forgiven?

to sanctify in scripture means to set apart for holy use.... that is not a process....it is either you are apart or not...

If that were true then the moment you were saved you would have been transported into heaven.

one minute you say sanctiication is a process next you say it is complete....you don't even know what you believe....

You do not read carefully or at all. Sanctification is completed when those of us who are saved are glorified together with our Savior. You really should know that.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Reborn]

Jesus was letting the Pharisees know that they could be a part of the Kingdom of God now in Luke 17:20. They thought that the Kingdom was something physical they should be looking for. When Jesus was trying to say that they could be in God's Kingdom now and they could His citizens now. For the Kingdom of God is within a person. Meaning, they can repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ and be born again spiritually, thereby becoming a son of God. For as many as received him, to them gave he ppower to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name (John 1:12). When we say "believe", it is believing Jesus Christ and his Word. Believing Jesus' teachings that come from Him and his apostles. For what Paul had said that what he had written was the Lord's commands. So all Scripture is profitable for doctrine.

So it's not a physical place then?
Or does the definition change depending on the verse?

Luke 7:28?
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

One can assume that the 'Kingdom of God' was established when Jesus began His ministry then?
If the KOG term and it's context, is not a physical place, then why is it that some (you sometimes) keep referring it as the literal Heaven?(Depending on the debate?)
A very key thing to bring up (in any debate) if one wants to understand the "mysteries of it"? Right?

 

[djness]

Well, I am not surprised you are trying to make this personal instead of dealing with the texts that I have presented that disprove the OSAS proponent's belief that they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. This is the standard MO for many OSAS believers I have debated with over the years.

James 5:19-20 talks about how the saints can renew a fellow brother or sister back to the faith because they have backslidden into sin. The backslidden believer has erred from the truth; But if a faithful believer converts this backslidden brother or sister back to the faith, they will in effect have helped cover a multitude of their sins and save their soul from death.

If a believer has backslidden into sin (But not have denied Jesus Christ as their Savior), they have a chance to repent or confess of their sin and have a chance at renewing their faith.

Hebrews 6 speaks of apostasy and or a denial of the Lord Jesus Christ while having the Spirit. Please take note that Peter did not have the Spirit when he denied the Lord. The conditions in Hebrews 6 involve denying the Lord while having abided with the Spirit.

I like to make things personal. ''the texts'' as you say are more than just words on a page to recite , and what I say I believe and what I do shouldn't be two different things. It's the standard MO for anyone who actually wants to think about what you personally believe and not just what your scrolls that you keep immaculate have to say. I'm pretty sure Jesus got REAL personal when he was here. Don't you think? He tried to get personal with a certain group of people and they would have none of it.
If you just wanna read text and not touch the lepers you can continue to do that.

I don't mind at all telling anyone what the Lord has personally done for me. I notice you've avoided it.

 

[Jason0047]

So it's not a physical place then?
Or does the definition change depending on the verse?

Luke 7:28?
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

One can assume that the 'Kingdom of God' was established when Jesus began His ministry then?
If the KOG term and it's context, is not a physical place, then why is it that some (you sometimes) keep referring it as the literal Heaven?(Depending on the debate?)
A very key thing to bring up (in any debate) if one wants to understand the "mysteries of it"? Right?

No. Kingdoms are real places. Kingdoms are made up of real people. If I am a citizen of such and such Kingdom it is of a real place. Remember, Jesus said, His Kingdom was not of this world. Meaning, His Kingdom was in Heaven. For the Scriptures say, "For here we have no continuing city, but we seek one to come." (Hebrews 13:14). What city would that be? New Jerusalem. It will one day land on the Eternal New Earth. But we can be a part of the Kingdom now and be a citizen of New Jerusalem before we actually physically enter it. Then how are we citizens of New Jerusalem? Well, we are made citizens because of Jesus Christ. But, you have to realize also that...

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).

 

[Jason0047]

I like to make things personal. ''the texts'' as you say are more than just words on a page to recite , and what I say I believe and what I do shouldn't be two different things. It's the standard MO for anyone who actually wants to think about what you personally believe and not just what your scrolls that you keep immaculate have to say. I'm pretty sure Jesus got REAL personal when he was here. Don't you think? He tried to get personal with a certain group of people and they would have none of it.
If you just wanna read text and not touch the lepers you can continue to do that.

I don't mind at all telling anyone what the Lord has personally done for me. I notice you've avoided it.

No, that is not the personal I am talking about. Being personal with God is different than a person trying to make things personal. I am talking about the type of personal behavior where you are set out to attack me instead of the doctrine. You are not Jesus to know my heart and thoughts or my walk with God. In fact, posting your personal life on the internet can be dangerous. Familes have been broken up. People's careers have been ruined. Others have been pushed to commit suicide because of it. For just look at all the problems Facebook has caused. For I doubt you would share everything in your life openly here or online. Why would you expect it of others?

 

[Reborn]

True.
I am not denying that kingdoms can be and are real places.
But in this case, I'm asking for your (or THEE) definition ( when this term is used throughout the NT) of the "Kingdom of God" ??
Is the KOG ever referenced as a physical place, or should/can it be taken to mean a literal place, in context to how it is used?

In Luke 7:28....he who is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist? We are greater the John in Heaven? I don't think so.
Equal maybe? But greater than John? The term KOG must mean something else?

I'm telling you brother, this is so important to know. It clears up a lot of scripture by understanding what Jesus meant when He used the KOG term.