Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[psalm6819]

Do you think God is surprised when you sin?????

 

[psychomom]

Commands of the New Testament

28 And one of the scribes came , and having heard them reasoning together , and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear , O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these


Jesus words not mine. He didn't mention confessing.... Show me ONE place JESUS made someone confess.


Jesus attitude to the sinner- Go and sin no more

others attitude-make a big show, sackcloth, ashes, confessions

and the crazy thing is, when God shows us we have sinned,
He KNOWS we are repentant way before the words leave our lips.
(because He gave us the repentance and knows each heart)

there are hidden sins in each and every one of us.
Jesus died for those, too. ♥

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hey look. I didn't write the Bible. If you have a problem with 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 1:6-9 then take it up with God.

I don't have a problem with 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:6-9. I understand that those verses have nothing to do with my salvation but apply to my WALK as a Christian.

As for one forgetting to ask for forgiveness: Well, then I would say one is not sensitive to the conviction of the Spirit to repent and they are desensitized by their sin. In other words, they prefer their sin over God.

Now, does a person immediately lose salvation if they sin that day and God knows they are going to repent by the end of the night of it? I would venture to say that is not the case. It is about ignoring the conviction of the Spirit calling you to repent and you refusing to repent whereby you would stumble back into an unsaved state by not having God abide in you anymore (With the Lord being your source of eternal life).

We can stumble back into an "unsaved" state? So when we are born again that "seed" is corruptible or incorruptible? We can lose the Spirit that we were born again with [That which is born of the Spirit is spirit] and have to be born again, again? What does "born" mean?

As for 2 Timothy 4:6-7: Again, this cannot support your sin and still be saved doctrine. It doesn't even suggest such a thing. On the contrary, if you were to look at verse 3 it says, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" This is in context to 2 Timothy 3:1-5 that says,

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers fo those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

I never said that 2 Timothy 4:6,7 supported the title of this thread . . . This is what I said: So did Paul finally attain perfection in his flesh at the end of his days when he said: For I am now ready to be offered, and the time o my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, have finished my course, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:6,7

As for your question: It is still a little unclear in the way that you asked it. I am not sure what you are saying. Please rephrase the question in a way that is more clear to understand. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Jason0047 No, it's not about perfection. It's about having a humble spirit before God that cries out for forgiveness to Him. This is what the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee is all about. The Tax Collector was more justified because he cried out to God to have mercy on him in being a sinner. Whereas the Pharisee who thought he was God's child and who thought he was better than the Tax Collector was not (See Luke 18:9-14).
MY RESPONSE:
What makes you think those that believe their faith in Jesus Christ makes them born again children of God and thus gives them eternal life and they are secure in that belief - do not humble themselves before God when they sin?

You are assuming to know me and my walk with God by assuming that I do not humble myself before God . . . I will reply with the same statement that you used on a previous post: You are not Jesus to know my heart and thoughts or my walk with God.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

What is the purpose of confessing if it doesn't really do anything for you eternally? I mean, folks are just going to end up with God anyways according to OSAS right? So I agree, my friend. It doesn't make any sense. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now, either that verse is lying or the OSAS proponent is lying. I will take my chances on what the Bible says and not what I would want to be true.

I also will take my chances on what the Bible says and NOT what I would want to be true. All those that have Jesus Christ as their Lord are saved . . . They are born again by the Spirit of God . . . they are now indwelt by the holy Spirit. They were born once by corruptible seed but born again of incorruptible seed. They are promised eternal life. They now belong to the household of God as a child of God - that is their standing within the household; the body of Christ.

Then there is our WALK, our relationship and fellowship with God, his Son and with the household of God. Our state within the family can fluctuate - sometimes we will be out of fellowship due to our behavior - Do we lose our position as a son or daughter or our we disciplined, chastised?

Our WALK can be a battle because the flesh lusts after the Spirit and the Spirit lusts after the flesh. We still contend with our "old man" [fleshly, carnal nature] - that is why God tells us to renew our minds and become transformed, to put off the old man with his former conversation - it is corrupt. We are to put on the new man, the inner man, which is created in righteousness and true holiness. The epistles are full of instructions for us to do that pertain with our old man - mortify the deeds of the flesh, put off the old man, etc. If there was to be no difficulty, no warring within our members, no chance for us to sin in our WALK, God would not have taught us through scripture HOW TO WALK. If our flesh as transformed as soon as we were born again, it would be a breeze to walk by the Spirit but our flesh is with us until we die or until we see Jesus face to face and then we will be fully perfected.

Bottom line ANYONE who is truly born again will desire to do good and be pleasing to God, our Father.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh brother. Not all the time. Trust that. Not all the time.

I know people who have been born again and haven't acted any differently than before they was. They confess Christ as Lord with their tongues and they truly believe it in their heart. And they want to change for God, but they don't. Does that mean these people are any less deserving of Gods salvation because of Christ's work?

Yes. They are not deserving of Christ's work because they did not accept it because they did not truly repent. They are still in love with their old self and in love with serving their sin and not serving God. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. This is what the Condemnation is all about. John 3:19-20 says, "And this is the Condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

Look, lets not get off topic. If I'm wrong in anything I say, I appreciate your correction and guidance I really do. Lets face it, the only reason we're here is because of our faith. So it is Gods will that we are here today having this discussion.

But I must digress, you have taken something so very simple and over complicated it.

No, OSAS proponents have taken something simple and turned it into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4 NIV). For Peter identifies those false believers as those who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14).

There is a simplicity in Christ. You know right from wrong. Good guys are not people who do bad and evil things. That is Morality 101. That is simple basics. You don't need a Bible to tell you good guys do good and bad guys do bad. Those who sin with no remorse and have no desire to change are hypocrites. For the Bible says one thing and they do another thing. Jesus talked about the Pharisees being hypocrites.

It is meant to be very simple. I am explicitly answering your original thread starting question of "Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?" with a yes, you can.

Just because you say that people can be out of fellowship with God doesn't make it so. You actually need a Bible verse or two to support that line of thinking. However, you don't have to bother looking for one. Not only has nobody been able to produce one so far, but there is Scripture that actually says the exact opposite. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. John 17:3 says that eternal life is in knowing the true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing someone implies a fellowship. So eternal life is tied to fellowship. For Jesus Christ alone is the only one who possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). For if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to him (Romans 8:9).

Since everyones walk with God is different. That's another reason why you should never judge anyone.

Again, you don't know your Bible. That's not what the Bible says. Jesus says judge not by outward appearances but judge righteous Judgment. Paul says know ye not that ye shall judge angels? For Paul says we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to rather reprove them. What is unfruitful works of darkness? Again, read the Condemnation one more time in John 3:19-20.

I am not trying to avoid anything. Why do you need me to "explain the words in the verses"? Use dictionary.com if you need to do that!

You know what I mean. Please offer how the words in those passages relate to OSAS. I am asking for a commentary. Surely that should not be too difficult for you. But I am not really expecting you to do that because you do not know how to actually explain those passages in relating to OSAS.

Well thats great brother! Truly great. Although, it is regardless here as to what you are or aren't without Him. Although you are 100% right and I metaphorically high five you for that. But I don't think I have ever said here that sin is taken away by a belief alone.

Then how does sin get taken away in one's life personally if it is not by some OSAS belief alone?

You say the scriptures don't teach that, but if that is so; about sin not being taken away by a belief alone, then what about 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. then?

Isn't it enough to believe that, do as it says, then move on?

That's not what it says in context, though. Again. 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7 is reworded in 1 John 2:3-6. It says, hereby we can know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:1 says to the brethren if they sin, they have an advocate that they can go to named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1). This means 1 John 1:9 applies to the believer. For OSAS proponents do not believe they have any sin held to their account. So they are saying in Christ, they have no sin. But 1 John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Then 1 John 1:9 is the next verse that follows.

Once forgiven, always forgiven. The slate is wiped clean.

You need an actual Bible verse that says that.

It is your single and simple child like faith that saves you, your faith in Christ and his forgiveness, not how times you repent of your sins.

Lets wrap this up with an example.

Lets say someone called Steve was a sinner, but got converted by a Christian friend and become a born again Christian. Steve is much happier with life now he knows the truth and has the joy that comes through faith in Christ. But try as hard as Steve might to please God, he still sometimes repeats old sins like swearing, being rude, being selfish, being proud, arrogant etc. Maybe even sometimes he does much worse things.

One day after Christian fellowship with worshiping and songs of praise, Steve goes home and flicks on the TV and sees some unwholesome stuff in a film or documentary, gets made and cusses outloud or strikes out in an act of thoughtless rage.

Steve has now sinned and is in danger of hellfire. Later on in that day, Jesus comes back in the clouds with the sound of trumpets pumping and the voice of God himself says Come up hither!

In the twinkling of an eye, all the dead are raised first and then all those that are still alive and are believers are called up to meet Jesus and our Father.

What about Steve? He had some sin that he never had a chance to confess. So does that mean he'll be left behind with all the atheists?

No of course not. His faith will save him. Not how fast he was able to confess his sin and get right with God again.

He was already right with God when he become born again.

You absolutely cannot loose your salvation if you are a true born again believer.

Yes, that professing believer who still abides in unrepentant sin (with no remorse) is not saved. They need to repent and forsake their sin with God's help. For the Scriptures say, "For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord."

If you could, then Paul and the bible is a liar.

Paul and the Bible do not teach OSAS. You have tricked yourself into believing a lie that is not in the Scriptures. Look, you can't even explain simple verses in 1 John 1 to me in your own words.

Now I'm sure you'll say something clever to this and tell me to go read some scripture somewhere. And I appreciate it I really do because it's all educational to me at the end of the day.

But that's my belief. My thoughts on the matter. My answer is, yes. And if you say no, you don't really know the bible or God as well as you think you do.

That might be a hard pill to swallow for some people.

Well, I have considered OSAS for a brief time. But Scripture completely is against such a concept everywhere. From Genesis to Revelation you can see many examples that refute OSAS.

But chin up! God loves us! He wants us to be happy!! H A P P Y!

He doesn't want us to be happy in sin; And God will not condone or reward you by allowing you to enter into Heaven because of it, either.

He wants us to rightly divide His word in truth. But above all, He wants us to be happy and joyful.

People work better when they are happy.

God bless you and all!

Does your preacher say the words, "Rightly divide the Word of truth" ? I know this is taken from Scripture, but OSAS proponents say this phrase like it is their personal pet motto or slogan or something. On another forum, others have used this same phrase from Scripture. As if saying it actually explains everything.

But it doesn't explain anything.

You can't explain the morality behind OSAS. For how is letting people who can sin and rebel against God not being hypocritcal? You know the Bible says to be holy and be righteous, and yet God is going to just like let you slide in doing evil? Jesus had some pretty nasty words against those who did evil and appeared to be religious.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Context John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation that light has come into the world and men [those that believe NOT, condemned already] loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.

For everyone that doeth evil [those that believe NOT, condemned already] hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth [one who believes] cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God.

 

[Jason0047]

Commands of the New Testament

28 And one of the scribes came , and having heard them reasoning together , and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear , O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these


Jesus words not mine. He didn't mention confessing.... Show me ONE place JESUS made someone confess.


Jesus attitude to the sinner- Go and sin no more

others attitude-make a big show, sackcloth, ashes, confessions

Jesus began his ministry with the words, Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)

Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish (Luke 13:3).

The men of Nineveh will rise up at the Judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they will repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. (Matthew 12:41). Repentance in Jonah is defined as the Ninevites as turning from their evil ways (John 3:8-10).

Besides, Jesus quoted Scripture as an authority. So he does not need to say things outright in detail in order for it to be true. Jesus relies on Scripture and there are many truths that were not spoken about directly by Him. 1 John 1:9 is a part of Scripture. Jesus would quote that to you if you did not believe in confessing your sins so as to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (Like the passage says).

 

[kennethcadwell]

Context John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation that light has come into the world and men [those that believe NOT, condemned already] loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.

For everyone that doeth evil [those that believe NOT, condemned already] hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth [one who believes] cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God.

The Lords definition for those who believe in Him;


Luke 6:47


Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them

 

[Reborn]

Jesus began his ministry with the words, Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)

Exactly Jason.
Then we can agree on "the Kingdom of Heaven" and it's definition?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Those who inherit the kingdom of heaven rather Jew or Gentile, is those who receive remission of their sins from the Lord Jesus Christ leading to salvation; That was given to us by God's grace !!!

 

[Jason0047]

Well, I think you sort of went off course, to what I was asking.

Simply,
Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven = all things / mysteries of God, Jesus, Jesus' teachings, Bible, knowledge pertaining to the issue at hand, etc, that can be understood by human minds.
Heaven= is the place where God resides.
Kingdoms=physical places on earth, or in reference to a physical kingdom later. (NOT to be confused with KOG or KOH)

Don't believe me, please check it. Anytime the KOG or the KOH is used throughout the NT, it is in reference to obtaining knowledge, etc.
When/if the Lord speaks of Heaven (the place where God is) He simply uses the word 'Heaven' on it's own, never KOG.

He will be greater than John the Baptist?............I think it means, He will have more knowledge on the things of God, making that individual "greater" than John, who was limited to OT knowledge.

If one is confused on this, then most of the NT must be hard to understand for them? It changes a bit....doesn't take AWAY from the meaning, but clears it up.
Or they have to explain away why a parable doesn't make sense if it refers to a physical Heaven? Ten Virgins, etc?

The "keys" brother.

Well, this is an off topic discussion, my dear friend. But I would recommend checking out these articles.

What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?
What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven?
Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven | Learn The Bible

 

[Jason0047]

Exactly Jason.
Then we can agree on "the Kingdom of Heaven" and it's definition?

That's not what this thread is about. Please see my recent post, my friend.

 

[Reborn]

Well, this is an off topic discussion, my dear friend. But I would recommend checking out these articles.

What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?
What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven?
Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven | Learn The Bible

No thanks brother. I know what they mean. I was asking If YOU knew?
Not off topic at all.
I said one should know what these are/ before the even begin to teach?
You seem confused brother?
The Kingdom of Heaven is AT HAND. It is present.....in the now.
You posted that verse.
So is Heaven here? That's how you would have to justify it, by your definition.
Or is it what I stated above?

Let God show what these are...not some lame articles.

Sort of important....especially if one is going to speak on Christ's behalf, right?
Not a topic to take lightly, I think you'd agree?

 

[Jason0047]

Wherefore I say unto you, ALL MANNER OF SIN AND BLASPHEMY shall be forgiven unto men: BUT blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven him . . . .neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

There is only one sin that leads to death . . . blasphemy of the holy Spirit. [Matt. 12:31,32]

Which refutes OSAS. Because you cannot speak bad about the Holy Ghost and be forgiven. There are actually three other ones which imply no forgiveness, as well.

#1. Suicide.
#2. If you deny Jesus Christ after having the Holy Spirit and having tasted of the Heavnly gifts, you will not be able to repent.
#3. Taking the Mark of the Beast.

However, all other sins can (shall) be forgiven. Meaning, you can repent of other sins and be forgiven.

 

[Jason0047]

No thanks brother. I know what they mean. I was asking If YOU knew?
Not off topic at all.
I said one should know what these are/ before the even begin to teach?
You seem confused brother?
The Kingdom of Heaven is AT HAND. It is present.....in the now.
You posted that verse.
So is Heaven here? That's how you would have to justify it, by your definition.
Or is it what I stated above?

Let God show what these are...not some lame articles.

Sort of important....especially if one is going to speak on Christ's behalf, right?
Not a topic to take lightly, I think you'd agree?

No, it's off topic. You are wanting to discuss the distinctions of Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven when no such distinction exists within Scripture. Both phrases has been used interchangably before. Oh, and I am not denying that one can be a part of God's citizenship now. A citizen of God is a part of His Kingdom (Whether it's called the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of Christ). We are discussing whether or not one can have no fellowship with God and still be saved. OSAS is at the heart of that belief. So that is what we are discussing. Not going to discuss KOG and KOH with you any further. I have already given you my answer.

 

[Jason0047]

Here's another question that somehow slipped by but fits here also.
Was there a time "before faith came"? Was the "new birth" available before the day of Pentecost?

Jason, it would be nice if you could just simply answer a question without going all over the place. Thanks.

BTW, I do not condone evil behavior.

As I said before, the new birth (i.e. being born again) existed for all people thru out all time (Including the saints of the Old Testament period).

Quick Review:
Circumcision of the Heart in the Old Testament.
(Which is obviously a spiritual renewal of one's heart):

Deuteronomy 10:16

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."

​

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

​

Jeremiah 4:4

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

​

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."

​

Leviticus 26:41

"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:."

​

Jeremiah 9:26

"Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart."

​

Having A New Heart in the Old Testament:

Ezekiel 11:19

"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh"

​

Ezekiel 18:31

"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

​

Ezekiel 36:26

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

​

Circumcision of the Heart in the New Testament:

Acts 7:51

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

​

Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament:

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

​

Romans 2:28-29

28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

​

Colossians 2:11

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"


​

As for your claim that you do not condone evil behavior: Well, that is exactly what you are doing if you believe a sinner can abide in unrepentant sin (i.e. lose fellowship) and be rewarded by God with Him letting them enter into His Kingdom. God is good. He is not evil. He is not going to let His people get away with doing evil anymore than He will let an unbeliever get away with doing evil. For be not deceived. The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[Reborn]

No, it's off topic. You are wanting to discuss the distinctions of Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven when no such distinction exists within Scripture. Both phrases has been used interchangably before. Oh, and I am not denying that one can be a part of God's citizenship now. A citizen of God is a part of His Kingdom (Whether it's called the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of Christ). We are discussing whether or not one can have no fellowship with God and still be saved. OSAS is at the heart of that belief. So that is what we are discussing. Not going to discuss KOG and KOH with you any further. I have already given you my answer.

No need to answer me.......It's obvious that you are confused.

Or else you wouldn't loop debate like you do.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The Lords definition for those who believe in Him;

Luke 6:47

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them

What I posted had to do with eternal life and who gets eternal life - one who is saved, receives salvation is one who believes in the name of the only begotten Son of God; confesses him as Lord, believes God raised him from the dead - SAVED. That is salvation.

Once we are born again - we then have the holy Spirit that leads us into doing . .. It is called our WALK.

 

[Jason0047]

There you go again misapplying a scripture. No born again Christian minimizes sin. Born again Christians maximize grace. It is common for folks to find in others things they cannot forgive in themselves. Those who strive against Gods forgiveness and grace, who feel it necessary to deprive themselves of joy, cannot tolerate joyfulness in others who have a more mature relationship with Christ.

I have no interest in sin. I do not go about everyday fearing that I might sin. I rejoice that I am saved and that God desires fellowship with me. Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice.

I cannot help but to think that no one would want what most of the sour lemon Christians around here are showing. Why would God allow us to fear everyday that we might sin and lose our salvation?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No, please stop lying. You minimize sin. You don't acknowledge sin and you don't feel you have to confess it so as to be cleansed of all unrighteous as 1 John 1:9 says. You believe all your future sins are forgiven. So you don't need to worry about sin. It can never eternally effect you according to your Theology. But that is not what the Bible teaches. Acting like there is no problem just makes the problem worse. A true believer will always be humble before the Lord like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (See Luke 18:9-14).

 

[Jason0047]

No need to answer me.......It's obvious that you are confused.

Or else you wouldn't loop debate like you do.

Do you believe in OSAS?
Do you believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved?

Side Note:

As for my final explaination on KOH and KOG (Just so that you might understand):

Speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.

Read more:What is the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?