Rupert Murdoch: All Muslims must be held responsible for French attacks

[Ozmono]

Ozmono, militant Pacifism is a term used to describe violent action toward a goal supposedly to prevent war or, the development or use of certain weapons of war. It was first coined in December 1941 when "militant pacifists" attacked several U.S. buildings to prevent the development of nuclear weapons.

A correct exegesis of scripture clearly shows that the church of Jesus Christ is not equitable with say the leftist Red December terrorist "militant pacifist" organization, for example. Jesus Christ never advocated "militant pacifism" and was not Himself a pacifist.

Pulling verses out of context and projecting leftist political ideologies onto them is disingenuous and does not change their correct meaning in context whatsoever.

But at least I see your honest enough to admit that you don't know the bible well nor take it literally. It's obvious that you mix whatever feels good or sounds good to you into what you're reading. But this has led you to make false assertions about what I said that aren't true as well as state false assertions of your own that aren't true.

Since I don't want to do that myself, I'll ask. Are you stating that sinful behavior is not already judged by God? Are you stating that anyone who takes action to protect themselves from the sinful behavior of another using whatever reasonable force is necessary to do so is condemning them?

The bible teaches us to hold people accountable for their words and behavior but not to pass final judgment on their soul as that's God's domain.

In fact, Jesus often judged the behavior of other people during His ministry on earth despite his exhortations regarding judging. In fact, in the end, He will judge all behavior of every person (Acts 10:42, Matthew 25, etc...).

I want you to read this article by pastor Skye Jethani as he explains the topic of judging and condemning quite well and given your ignorance with the topic; you need to read it before we can go any further:

What Did Jesus Mean by "Judge Not"? | PARSE

I read it and interpret it as I see it. I had some Catholic influence as a child which has also had an influence on how I see it. I don't just take what feels good and mix it with anything I choose. To be honest it's far easier and satisfying in the short term to seek vengeance, it's much harder to turn the other cheek. This is one of the reasons I don't consider myself a true Christian. I respect and love the idea but I don't have the faith required to trust that God will make everything all right in the end. With this in mind and as I have suggested, I am by no means an expert on scripture nor a strict practitioner of Christianity. This is because of doubts with my own faith, not just because I am currently incapable of living up to what I think is required of me.

On a personal level, I think these terrorist should be held accountable for their actions. The ones who commit the evil deeds, not the ones who believe their religion has been hijacked. So in other words I certainly am against the idea that all Muslims should be responsible for the actions of the few that committed the horrible deeds in France.

As for your question. "Are you stating that sinful behavior is not already judged by God? Are you stating that anyone who takes action to protect themselves from the sinful behavior of another using whatever reasonable force is necessary to do so is condemning them?" I believe God is all knowing. In that sense they are already judged as are we.
I don't believe God needs events to unfold before he knows the outcome. I also believe that God is just and merciful. As a just, merciful and all knowing being I imagine he would certainly be merciful towards those whom protect themselves from imminent danger. That said I believe he may (only may because I am a weak Christian) have given us better tools to fight evil, than the tools evil uses to fight good. I think this is evident in the new testament. I know I'm not capable of wielding those tools properly but I try when threads like this pop up and people (some) start suggesting Muslims should be eradicated as a whole. I don't believe self defense is condemning someone and that is not what I was speaking out against. I was speaking out against the idea that we should hold everyone who believes in one form of Islam or another responsible for the actions of a few evil murderers in France.

Does that answer your question?

 

[ThomistColin]

If these guys had only been around to give Hitler a hug...the they could have saved all those millions he killed

That's unjust and unkind.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If these guys had only been around to give Hitler a hug...the they could have saved all those millions he killed

You do realize that God allows all things to happen, the good and the bad, to fulfill His will.....
So no matter what you do or think matters, as long as your doing what the Lord told you to do in His word. Rather you want to wrangle them all up, or kill them. If God wants them to come to power to usher in the next part of the end times of the 200 million man army that kills 1/3 of the world. Then that is what is going to happen...

 

[Mitspa]

You do realize that God allows all things to happen, the good and the bad, to fulfill His will.....
So no matter what you do or think matters, as long as your doing what the Lord told you to do in His word. Rather you want to wrangle them all up, or kill them. If God wants them to come to power to usher in the next part of the end times of the 200 million man army that kills 1/3 of the world. Then that is what is going to happen...

Hitler is Gods fault? No! And it is love to defend the weak from criminals like the Nazis and these killers and it is clearly Gods intention that the sword be used to punish these sort of evildoers.

 

[Sirk]

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:




Esther 9:1-5 ...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,


Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Leviticus 24:16-17 16 'And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death. 17 ' Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.


Exodus 22:2-3 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 "If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.

Nehemiah 417 Those who were rebuilding the wall and those who carried burdens took their load with one hand doing the work and the other holding a weapon. 18As for the builders, each wore his sword girded at his side as he built, while the trumpeter stood near me. ... 21 So we carried on the work with half of them holding spears from dawn until the stars appeared. .... 23 So neither I, my brothers, my servants, nor the men of the guard who followed me, none of us removed our clothes, each took his weapon even to the water.

Esther 8:11-12 11 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...

Esther 9:1-5 ...the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them. 2 The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.... 5 Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction,

 

[Mitspa]

That's unjust and unkind.

Its like some of you just throw away all understanding we have of history and these sort of groups have a blood lust that only strength can turn back.... I don't understand how any fair-minded person could conclude as some have? It don't make sense , anymore than giving way to hitler made sense....It don't work and never has!

 

[AuphirahQueen]

I hope you are not saying that what the King of Lies (Rupert Murdoch) is spewing, is the truth.....

Because woe to you that call evil good and good evil!

What that man did in the UK, was... unbelievably evil....

I was responsing to AgeofKnowledge history lesson about slavery of Nubians(Black Americans & Irish). I love all humanity in this life because ABBA loves me.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I guess Ozmono. But you're still saying things that aren't true while missing the point with respect to what Islam is.

For example, you say "people (some) start suggesting Muslims should be eradicated as a whole." Who? All I saw was one person use the word "deleted," and since he's a Christian and Christianity is a worldview set against murder, it's quite a stretch to assume he's speaking of genocide. I took it to mean he was speaking of deleting Muslims by exposing them to the Gospel of Jesus Christ for their conversion and educating them as to why the religious system they grew up with is false in combination with ending their immigration to the West and ultimately repatriating those who continue in Islam.

But if you don't believe that, then call him out make him qualify his statement. Send him an email to make sure he knows he's being called on what he said. That's the wise thing to do. There's far too much assumption at work in these threads.

If it turns out that he actually was advocating for what you assumed, then read him the riot act. I'll join you in doing so. It will be a teachable moment for him. Anyone that claims to be a genuine Christian cannot, by definition, be an advocate for genocide (e.g. the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation).

But as I stated, you also have to come to grips with what Islam is: both epistemologically and historically. Genocide, democide, human slavery, totalitarian oppression under Sharia etc... is all presently advocated, justified, and practiced on a global scale in Islam by Muslims wherever they can amass the power to do so.

In the 20th century, state atheism under Marxism was the greatest threat to liberty and world peace. In the 21st century, it is Islam.

 

[Human]

I guess Ozmono. But you're still saying things that aren't true while missing the point with respect to what Islam is.

For example, you say "people (some) start suggesting Muslims should be eradicated as a whole." Who? All I saw was one person use the word "deleted," and since he's a Christian and Christianity is a worldview set against murder, it's quite a stretch to assume he's speaking of genocide. I took it to mean he was speaking of deleting Muslims by exposing them to the Gospel of Jesus Christ for their conversion and educating them as to why the religious system they grew up with is false in combination with ending their immigration to the West and ultimately repatriating those who continue in Islam.

But if you don't believe that, then call him out make him qualify his statement. Send him an email to make sure he knows he's being called on what he said. That's the wise thing to do. There's far too much assumption at work in these threads.

If it turns out that he actually was advocating for what you assumed, then read him the riot act. I'll join you in doing so. It will be a teachable moment for him. Anyone that claims to be a genuine Christian cannot, by definition, be an advocate for genocide (e.g. the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation).

But as I stated, you also have to come to grips with what Islam is: both epistemologically and historically. Genocide, democide, human slavery, totalitarian oppression under Sharia etc... is all presently advocated, justified, and practiced on a global scale in Islam by Muslims wherever they can amass the power to do so.

In the 20th century, state atheism under Marxism was the greatest threat to liberty and world peace. In the 21st century, it is Islam.

It depends on what soil you stand and what side of the fence you look on. To quite a few noncombatant Muslims (about half a million or so) who had to duck under drone strikes and ended up in the ground, the people firing from the drone are the biggest threat to world peace.

It's extremey easy, it seems, to justify such occurences by playing blame games ''The Muslims shouldn't have bombed the towers then, should they!'', but alas, that's the nature of human partisanship. ''You started it!'', ''No you did, it's your fault!'', ''No, its YOUR fault''.

It is a bit wearisome, and I'm only 24.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hitler is Gods fault? No! And it is love to defend the weak from criminals like the Nazis and these killers and it is clearly Gods intention that the sword be used to punish these sort of evildoers.

First, I did not say that it was God's fault and I would appreciate it if you please stop making false allegations toward me.

Second, the bible makes it clear that God allows the good and the bad to happen to fulfill His will.
If this is something you still have not yet grasped, go and read Job to see what God allowed satan to do to him.

Finally, God could come and destroy all evil right here and now, but He doesn't because He is given time for all those that are His to come to Him. That and He allows evil to happen to test our faith, just like He did Job. To show who is truly His, and who at the first hardship, trial, and tribulation will fall away from the faith. If God was going to stop all evil and not allow it to take place, then the great tribulation will never take place.
Plus there is a major war event that happens before the great tribulation, and over 2.3 billion people will be killed (1/3 or the earth's population). The army that does this consist's of 200 million soldiers, and there are only two factions in the world today that could fend such a group; Muslim Islamic radiclists, and China.....it could even be a combination of the two, not sure yet.......

 

[Mitspa]

First, I did not say that it was God's fault and I would appreciate it if you please stop making false allegations toward me.

Second, the bible makes it clear that God allows the good and the bad to happen to fulfill His will.
If this is something you still have not yet grasped, go and read Job to see what God allowed satan to do to him.

Finally, God could come and destroy all evil right here and now, but He doesn't because He is given time for all those that are His to come to Him. That and He allows evil to happen to test our faith, just like He did Job. To show who is truly His, and who at the first hardship, trial, and tribulation will fall away from the faith. If God was going to stop all evil and not allow it to take place, then the great tribulation will never take place.
Plus there is a major war event that happens before the great tribulation, and over 2.3 billion people will be killed (1/3 or the earth's population). The army that does this consist's of 200 million soldiers, and there are only two factions in the world today that could fend such a group; Muslim Islamic radiclists, and China.....it could even be a combination of the two, not sure yet.......

Right because He left the authority to punish evil doers in the hands of man and has shown us His love and justice to guide us. And God does not do evil or tempt any man to evil...you should be ashamed for even suggesting such a thing! Here is God and here is devil!

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


If you get confused again, just remember this scripture!

 

[Human]

Right because He left the authority to punish evil doers in the hands of man and has shown us His love and justice to guide us. And God does not do evil or tempt any man to evil...you should be ashamed for even suggesting such a thing! Here is God and here is devil!

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


If you get confused again, just remember this scripture!

Philosophically pertinent question: If God made all things, then he also made the propensity for evil in anything that has that propensity. Thus, is God not, as the ultimate creator of everything, ultimately responsible for there being evil?

 

[Mitspa]

It depends on what soil you stand and what side of the fence you look on. To quite a few noncombatant Muslims (about half a million or so) who had to duck under drone strikes and ended up in the ground, the people firing from the drone are the biggest threat to world peace.

It's extremey easy, it seems, to justify such occurences by playing blame games ''The Muslims shouldn't have bombed the towers then, should they!'', but alas, that's the nature of human partisanship. ''You started it!'', ''No you did, it's your fault!'', ''No, its YOUR fault''.

It is a bit wearisome, and I'm only 24.

I would say that if these so-called millions of muslims had a free-choice most of them would leave this religion altogether.. Most of them are controlled by fear like the Germans people under the Nazis...we would do be liberating millions if we actually destroyed these radicals ability to control these poor people....

 

[Human]

I would say that if these so-called millions of muslims had a free-choice most of them would leave this religion altogether.. Most of them are controlled by fear like the Germans people under the Nazis...we would do be liberating millions if we actually destroyed these radicals ability to control these poor people....

If you had destroyed the Catholic church during the Inquisition do you think moderate Catholics would have given up their religions? If we destroyed the psychological oppression created by hell doctrine and the prospect of eternal punishment in flames do you think most Christians would give up their religions?

 

[Sirk]

Philosophically pertinent question: If God made all things, then he also made the propensity for evil in anything that has that propensity. Thus, is God not, as the ultimate creator of everything, ultimately responsible for there being evil?

Not really pertinent. Just another way of asking if God can make something too heavy for him to lift.

God says to you..."where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth"?

 

[Mitspa]

Philosophically pertinent question: If God made all things, then he also made the propensity for evil in anything that has that propensity. Thus, is God not, as the ultimate creator of everything, ultimately responsible for there being evil?

This question is address by Paul and others ...and Gods answer seems to be "Im God" and we are not able to understand His intentions....I would say this...God called light out of darkness...if not for the darkness we would not love the light. If not for sin and our need for mercy the Glory of Christ would not touch our heart as it does. I know Gods love because I did not deserve it and somehow in the contradiction between light and darkness a part of God is seen and that would not have been sought by man.... But how satan bought such evil to the world is not clear and why God allowed it is not very clear either...but I think I see part of the reason...but no man dare blame God..He is beyond the blame of any man.

 

[AnnaBou]

Philosophically pertinent question: If God made all things, then he also made the propensity for evil in anything that has that propensity. Thus, is God not, as the ultimate creator of everything, ultimately responsible for there being evil?

God is responsible for giving us free choice and guidance so we can learn from our mistakes and freely submit to God. When we sin and turn away from God's love we hurt mostly ourselves.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Right because He left the authority to punish evil doers in the hands of man and has shown us His love and justice to guide us. And God does not do evil or tempt any man to evil...you should be ashamed for even suggesting such a thing! Here is God and here is devil!

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


If you get confused again, just remember this scripture!

There you go at assuming and making false allegations against me again, as I said no such thing.
You do know bearing false witness is a sign of hatred and not love ???

There is a big difference, and I say big difference, in being tested and being tempted.
Go and learn the difference before making false baseless allegations on me or anybody else that may bring this issue up to you.

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

[FONT=kepler-std !important]Romans 5:3-4

[/FONT]And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

[FONT=kepler-std !important]Hebrews 11:17-19

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED." He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.


[/FONT]

 

[kennethcadwell]

Philosophically pertinent question: If God made all things, then he also made the propensity for evil in anything that has that propensity. Thus, is God not, as the ultimate creator of everything, ultimately responsible for there being evil?

Proverbs 16:4

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[Mitspa]

If you had destroyed the Catholic church during the Inquisition do you think moderate Catholics would have given up their religions? If we destroyed the psychological oppression created by hell doctrine and the prospect of eternal punishment in flames do you think most Christians would give up their religions?

What do you think happened when many seen that the RCC could not rule and control and kill them...when people seen liberty they left the RCC by the millions...Its called the USA !