Rupert Murdoch: All Muslims must be held responsible for French attacks

[Sirk]

You had the integrity to admit you have little knowledge of the bible or Islam so please do not get angry when I point out how your posts do not accurately represent either the Christian worldview or the Islamic worldview.

And listen to what I'm saying. I stated in #144 that, "I do agree with you that holding innocent people accountable for what guilty people do is unbiblical..."

I'm not stating all Muslims are responsible for what some Muslims do. I'm not stating Robert's assertion was correct. I've already stated they are not and that Robert's assertion is false in this thread.

But that doesn't mean that Islam is not an inherently violent wicked fabricated false religious system that poses a danger to non-Muslims wherever Muslims gain enough power to pose a threat because, in fact, it does and both historically and presently they do.

Peaceful Muslims consist of three groups: nominal Muslims, non-orthodox Muslims, and orthodox Muslims operating in a preparatory stage. WATCH:

[video=youtube_share;ERou_Q5l9Gw]http://youtu.be/ERou_Q5l9Gw[/video]

My friend, Nazism is not a peaceful worldview because some Nazis live peacefully at present lacking the power to actively accomplish the objectives inherent in their worldview and neither is Islam.

By contrast, Christianity takes a high view of the Imago Dei and only permits life taking in self-defense when necessary, in capital punishment for the crime of murder, and in just war (e.g. undertaken when necessary and always with the goal to reestablish justice and the restoration of peace. It must be fought under the authority of the legitimate ruler and be conducted in a just manner).

The Christian haters try to put Christian principles on the same level as fill in the blank political or religious system...when the truth about Christianity is that it begins with love and charity for others..... but that it crushes evil when the time comes.

 

[Sirk]

The Christian haters try to put Christian principles on the same level as fill in the blank political or religious system...when the truth about Christianity is that it begins with love and charity for others..... but that it crushes evil when the time comes.

But that is not say that portions of it weren't and won't get coopted into a system that is evil. Hitler used the churches as a means to an end and someone will try again. It's just the way that the pendulum swings in this fallen world.

 

[Sirk]

The really scary thing about all that is going on in this world is that man now has a firm grasp on psychology and has the means of mass manipulation. People who deny that that is going on are fooling themselves. We have to to be on guard and in communion with Jesus now more than ever, because it's about to get western.....just my opinion.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

You're making patently false assertions. Normative morality certainly is not "blind" and not only benefits the human race but has been instrumental to human progress as has been consistently demonstrated in the scientific and historical literature.

The 20th century, on the other hand, is a case study in the extreme totalitarianism of state atheism which, by definition, is uncoupled from normative morality which was a documented inherent reason for it's collapse.

There certainly is a Creator God interacting extra-dimensionally with this fallen world who cares deeply about those He endowed with the Imago Dei.

Your grossly misinformed spiritually bankrupt state doesn't make me angry for the simple reason that it's not my problem. It's your problem. And even if you eventually do replicate yourself to the point that you use government to make it my problem by hypocritically persecuting me in the manner you've falsely charged the Christian worldview: I'd still just feel sorry for you though the persecution might result in me stop liking you.

Interestingly, the Greco-Roman pagans used to make false charges against the Christian worldview. They accused Christianity of teaching cannibalism and atheism because Christianity refuted their false gods. Today atheists bring a new set of fallacious charges with them and every one you've just listed are soundly refuted in a wide number of Christian apologetical works.

If you're just interested in screeding accusations, then carry on as it seems to bring you some happiness and purpose (though both are ultimately meaningless of course in your false worldview). But, on the other hand, if you want to know why you're wrong then start with something like this:

Why I Am a Christian: Leading Thinkers Explain Why They Believe: Norman L. Geisler, Paul K. Hoffman: 9780801067129: Amazon.com: Books

I can do so because we're a human species whose blind attachment to regressive sociopolitical and moral ideologies is detrimental to the progression of our race. There is no judgement throne, there is just a dangerous desire to attribute authority to a fear-inducing exterior power for effective furtherance of ones' own sociopoltical ideologies, regardless of how humanly immoral they are. There is no Judeo-Christian creator-God in the sky making the minutae of human behaviour his primary focus, there is a tool of oppression ceated by mysoginistic men who needed jusitifcation to subjugate, control and assert themselves regardless of the inequality and immorality in such function.

You get angry because I won't submit to your rules. I get angry because you refuse to accept you aren't the authority of all people. If you stopped controlling women, stopped propagating the idea that men are superior, stopped hatred towards people who make different lifestyle choices than you, stopped assuming your ultimate superiority in sociopolitical and iedological contexts, stopped justifying a book that commands murder in and throughout, stopped asserting blasphemically that torture is a form of love, stopped brainwashing, subjugating and indoctrination children into fear-perpetuated self-hating spirals of grief and anxiety, stopped confining our species to the deontologies of your blind tyranny, then perhaps I might stop coming on here to say a thing to you about it.

As for now, I'm here.

 

[prodigal]

[h=1]Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]7 [/SUP]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[Ozmono]

You had the integrity to admit you have little knowledge of the bible or Islam so please do not get angry when I point out how your posts do not accurately represent either the Christian worldview or the Islamic worldview.

And listen to what I'm saying. I stated in #144 that, "I do agree with you that holding innocent people accountable for what guilty people do is unbiblical..."

I'm not stating all Muslims are responsible for what some Muslims do. I'm not stating Robert's assertion was correct. I've already stated they are not and that Robert's assertion is false in this thread.

But that doesn't mean that Islam is not an inherently violent wicked fabricated false religious system that poses a danger to non-Muslims wherever Muslims gain enough power to pose a threat because, in fact, it does and both historically and presently they do.

Peaceful Muslims consist of three groups: nominal Muslims, non-orthodox Muslims, and orthodox Muslims operating in a preparatory stage. WATCH:

[video=youtube_share;ERou_Q5l9Gw]http://youtu.be/ERou_Q5l9Gw[/video]

My friend, Nazism is not a peaceful worldview because some Nazis live peacefully at present lacking the power to actively accomplish the objectives inherent in their worldview and neither is Islam.

By contrast, Christianity takes a high view of the Imago Dei and only permits life taking in self-defense when necessary, in capital punishment for the crime of murder, and in just war (e.g. undertaken when necessary and always with the goal to reestablish justice and the restoration of peace. It must be fought under the authority of the legitimate ruler and be conducted in a just manner).

I cannot debate the contents of Islamic faith because I have not read the Koran or made a serious effort to understand it. That said I find it disingenuous that you accuse me of cherry picking when it comes to the new testament (which I still stand by after hearing your rebuttal), or taking things out of context and than use a video that takes little pieces of this and that of Islam and weaves them into a narrative. That said I can not verify or disprove that video because my understanding of Islam is less than my understanding of Christianity. Now I can not debate this further but atleast we agree that Rupert Murdochs claims that all Muslims should be held responsible for the killings in France is not sound.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The error of relativism. They teach that the demonically possessed witch doctor putting curses to make people sick is "on the same level" as the spirit-filled pastor who prays for the sick to be healed; that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality; that bestiality is as normal as human heterosexual monogamous intercourse; etc... but in practice they are not relativists for they work on the side of the anti-Christ against Christ.

"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil" -John 3:19.

And in they're rush, they discarded the truth that meaning is objective and absolute, not because a given linguistic expression of it is, but because there is an absolute God who has communicated meaning to finite minds through a common but analogous means that utilizes transcendent principles of logic common to both God and humans.

The fact that their intense emotional outbursts of rage and constant accusations are ultimately meaningless in the context of their own reductive materialist worldview escapes them. They're completely wrong, but in their false worldview they appear blind to the fact that their rage, their lives, their opinions/philosophies/worldview/feelings/etc... are ultimately meaningless. Might as well be an amoeba excreting.

The Christian haters try to put Christian principles on the same level as fill in the blank political or religious system...when the truth about Christianity is that it begins with love and charity for others..... but that it crushes evil when the time comes.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I never accused you of cherry picking the new testament. Where are you getting all of this from? What I said is you keep making false assertions about what I've said and aren't accurately presenting either the Christian or Islamic worldview.

I like you though. I like your honestly. If you get it in line with what's being communicated I think you'll do fine here.

And yes we do agree that Rupert Murdochs claim that all Muslims be held responsible for the killings in France is fallacious. There are many accurate statements he could have made. That was not among them.

I cannot debate the contents of Islamic faith because I have not read the Koran or made a serious effort to understand it. That said I find it disingenuous that you accuse me of cherry picking when it comes to the new testament (which I still stand by after hearing your rebuttal), or taking things out of context and than use a video that takes little pieces of this and that of Islam and weaves them into a narrative. That said I can not verify or disprove that video because my understanding of Islam is less than my understanding of Christianity. Now I can not debate this further but atleast we agree that Rupert Murdochs claims that all Muslims should be held responsible for the killings in France is not sound.

 

[Sirk]

The error of relativism. They teach that the demonically possessed witch doctor putting curses to make people sick is "on the same level" as the spirit-filled pastor who prays for the sick to be healed; that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality; that bestiality is as normal as human heterosexual monogamous intercourse; etc... but in practice they are not relativists for they work on the side of the anti-Christ against Christ.

"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil" -John 3:19.

And in they're rush, they discarded the truth that meaning is objective and absolute, not because a given linguistic expression of it is, but because there is an absolute God who has communicated meaning to finite minds through a common but analogous means that utilizes transcendent principles of logic common to both God and humans.

The fact that their intense emotional outbursts of rage and constant accusations are ultimately meaningless in the context of their own reductive materialist worldview escapes them. They're completely wrong, but in their false worldview they appear blind to the fact that their rage, their lives, their opinions/philosophies/worldview/feelings/etc... are ultimately meaningless. Might as well be an amoeba excreting.

Hey! Thats what I meant to say!

 

[Ozmono]

I never accused you of cherry picking the new testament. Where are you getting all of this from? What I said is you keep making false assertions about what I've said and aren't accurately presenting either the Christian or Islamic worldview.

I like you though. I like your honestly. If you get it in line with what's being communicated I think you'll do fine here.

And yes we do agree that Rupert Murdochs claim that all Muslims be held responsible for the killings in France is fallacious. There are many accurate statements he could have made. That was not among them.

Prehaps I am mistaken but when you said I was taking the versus I quoted out of context and said in post #179 "It's obvious that you mix whatever feels good or sounds good to you into what you're reading." I took that as an accusation of cherry picking. Anyway I am not insulted and I apologize if I have misunderstood you.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

And God loves each one of them deeply. That's also true. But did you mean to say that as well?

Hey! Thats what I meant to say!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Ah, I see. No I wasn't accusing you of anything disingenuous there like "cherry picking" or "quote mining." All I was doing is saying, or trying to say, that it looked to me that your emotions were acting interpretively on what you read.

I'm NOT saying you acted disingenuously. In fact, I like your honesty so far and complimented you on it. How's that?

Prehaps I am mistaken but when you said I was taking the versus I quoted out of context and said in post #179 "It's obvious that you mix whatever feels good or sounds good to you into what you're reading." I took that as an accusation of cherry picking. Anyway I am not insulted and I apologize if I have misunderstood you.

 

[Ozmono]

Ah, I see. No I wasn't accusing you of anything disingenuous there like "cherry picking" or "quote mining." All I was doing is saying, or trying to say, that it looked to me that your emotions were acting interpretively on what you read.

I'm NOT saying you acted disingenuously. In fact, I like your honesty so far and complimented you on it. How's that?

That takes away the "if" out of my apology.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and my emotions do play a part in my interpretation so you are right. My emotions play a big part in my morality but I want to make it clear that I don't actively try to bend it to suit my emotional state not that you are accusing me of that either.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I know you don't. No problem. Miscommunication happens a lot on line. It happens a lot offline too. In fact, it happens to us all. Which, is why we should strive to be accurate and also forgiving for life is too short for petty bickering. Let's fight about important things . LOL!!!

That takes away the "if" out of my apology.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and my emotions do play a part in my interpretation so you are right. My emotions play a big part in my morality but I want to make it clear that I don't actively try to bend it to suit my emotional state not that you are accusing me of that either.

 

[Sirk]

And God loves each one of them deeply. That's also true. But did you mean to say that as well?

Of course. The Lord wishes that no one should perish.

 

[Sirk]

I know you don't. No problem. Miscommunication happens a lot on line. It happens a lot offline too. In fact, it happens to us all. Which, is why we should strive to be accurate and also forgiving for life is too short for petty bickering. Let's fight about important things . LOL!!!

Okay...I'll start. The idiom "life is too short" annoys me. It suggests that time is our enemy when in God's economy time is our friend. How's that for bickering about important stuff?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's more than that. In the context of the article on judging and condemning I posted is the reality that God deeply loves them and wants to affect them with His love to their very core.

People like Human lash out at God's holiness, reject His love, and deny His very existence but do so from a state of spiritual death. They are spiritually dead people who've never been spiritually reborn and interacted with God or His holy loving spirit realm (not to be confused with the occultic spirit realm inhabited by rebellious fallen angels, of course).

To a person like Human, it doesn't even exist. They've never felt a holy loving supernatural spirit being draw near to them in their life. They've never felt the liquid love of God's Spirit enter their body and heal a serious medical problem. They've never communed with God, interacted with Him as friend, watched Him deliver them from an impossible situation, etc...

I have personally experienced all of these things and much much more; however, I aligned myself with God per His Word and strove with Him for many years rather than choosing rejection, rebellion, and denial so it was inevitable that Creator God would eventually honor His promise and draw near to me (see James 4:8).

Obviously, this has not resulted in me being made perfect though... lolol. Not even close.

But the point here is that though we "judge" (e.g. align ourselves with God's normative morality), we don't condemn people.

For example, I have no problem explaining to a person who has chosen to engage in homosexuality that his or her behavior is unholy and to exercise my political will toward preventing the persecution of myself and my Christian beloved at their hands when they attempt persecution because we maintain our human right to a free moral conscience in not condoning or facilitating the sexual immorality they've chosen to engage in. But I don't condemn them for it either for they can repent, be saved, and embark on that difficult but fruitful path of holy sanctification.

Yet it goes farther than that too. After the arguing is finished, I have to remind them how much God loves them and that though their life story be as red as scarlet, He wants to make it as white as snow... for eternity.

And that we can't ever lose sight of for the immoral, the deceived, and those caught in the web of a false religious system such as Islam. But in the meanwhile, we have to stop them from murdering us and taking control of our society!!!.

Lolol.

Of course. The Lord wishes that no one should perish.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I suppose philosophically you could also argue that everything matters and in eternity nothing is unimportant?

Okay...I'll start. The idiom "life is too short" annoys me. It suggests that time is our enemy when in God's economy time is our friend. How's that for bickering about important stuff?

 

[Sirk]

I wanna know what the kill em kindness crowd's suggestion is for when this comes to their neighborhood.

Dangerous Muslim-Only “No Go Zones” Could Happen In U.S.

 

[Sirk]

German Embed Reporter: ISIS Plans On Killing 'Hundreds of Millions' in 'Religious Cleansing' - Breitbart