What is Song of Solomon?

Atwood · Jan 14, 2015

MY POV:

I reject the Ewald plot which has 3 individual characters instead of 2, making some lines those of Solomon ( a lecherous villain, & others of the Shulammite's true love). This wrong plot was put into the original 2nd part of the Amplified Bible, when it was issued in 3 parts, before the 1 volume edition.

It looks below like someone claims that Solomon's name does not appear in the book. But that is a false claim. Just read the book.

The Song of Songs / Song of Solomon is a series of dramatic romantic poems or canticles, out of chronological order (compare Lord Jim the novel). It resembles Greek plays in the structure of having 2 characters and a chorus, in this case a chorus of young ladies, the daughters of Jerusalem. The 2 characters are the King, Solomon, & the Shulammite girl that he encountered when making a clandestine inspection of his herds. She was a shepherd girl who got darkened skin by being in the sun. They fell in love when she did not know who he was. He left & came back with a palanquin to sweep her off her feet & take her to Jerusalem to be his queen (actually a new queen of many). She has a nightmare or two, one where Solomon comes around at night & she does not open the door -- then wakes realizing she did not open to him & runs out in the night looking for him. Finally she invites him to go with her to visit the area where she was born.

The lines for the 3 parts (Solomon, Shulammite, & the chorus) are indicated by the gender of "my love," feminine and "my beloved" masculine. When it is a plural "we," then it is the daughters of Jerusalem: E.g.,
Shulammite: Draw me.
Daughters: "We will run after thee."

I think Dr. Ironsides is the major interpreter to give this interpretation. The characters may be edited in in some translations; I recall that the Ryrie Study Bible delineates them pretty well. My guess is that you will find the book edited as a play somewhere on the internet.

A very small part of the book has language too intimate/erotic for public reading. The book is a proper celebration of romantic eroticism between a husband & wife. The mutual reading of the book together is healthy for marriage. (Rejoice with the wife of your youth! -- See Proverbs 5).

One may apply some of it to the relationship between Christ & the Church, but I am convinced that the primary application of the book is to the proper sexual relationship between a husband & wife.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Tell this to those who couldn't read a Bible because it was only given out in Latin for a few hundred years...Again " it was added in " 200 years later..

Atwood · Jan 15, 2015

I see God's name mentioned in the last chapter of SoS "A very flame of YAH."

The Song of Solomon is written in Hebrew. I don't know why someone below seems to claim it was first in Latin -- or did I misunderstand the poster?

Actually the concept of canon is a misconception. God's Word was accepted as received by the sheep (My sheep hear My voice). The Corinthians were responsible to obey the Word of God via prophet Paul at once when they heard it. The 7 churches of W Asia Minor were responsible to obey God's word given through prophet John at once when they heard it. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

The Church accepted God's word as it was given. Peter already called Paul's epistles scripture.

The Church did not wait around for 100's of years until some old buzzard ecclesiastics in beards with long robes told them what was God's Word. There is an OT prophet who commanded someone to smite him, & the refusenik was punished quickly for failing to smite -- there was nothing about any councils of expert theologians being brought in before obedience to God's word was required.

The idea of canon is largely a misconception.

It is self-evident that the entire Bible is God's Word.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Gods name is not mentioned at all in SoS in the KJV ... Period, maybe another version
again, that word in hebrew is speculation ... As for it being written in Hebrew first, yes ... Then Greek and Latin... AND ONLY GIVEN OUT AND TAUGHT IN LATIN, for a few hundred years...and yes SOS was added in over 200 years, after the resurrection of the Messiah, Study some history please before responding, so yes, you misunderstood..

Atwood said:

Atwood · Jan 15, 2015

Brainfreeze said:

Nonsense. Let's see you prove any of that.

You think the Greeks in the Eastern Roman empire were reading the Song in Latin??? absurd. The Song is in Hebrew.

KJV is not the issue. The issue is the Hebrew.

ASV 8:8
Set me as a seal upon thy heart,
As a seal upon thine arm:
For love is strong as death;
Jealousy is cruel as Sheol;
The flashes thereof are flashes of fire,
A very flame of Jehovah.

יָהּ consonants at end of letter string

שַׁלְהֶבֶתְ

יָה

ﬂame of Yah Ca 86 (or em. שַׁלְהֲבֹתֶיהָ שַׁלְהֲבֹת־יָהּ its ﬂames are ﬂames of Yah) Yah, form of divine name יהוה Yahweh,

data from “יָהּ,” DCH scholarly Hebrew lexicon 4:114.

As to studying some history, I studied ancient History & Hebrew at the University of Minnesota & have a graduate degree earned in the Classics Dept. Where did you study ancient History & Hebrew?

What you say about Latin is nonsense. The Song of Solomon is written before there was a Roman empire.

Atwood · Jan 15, 2015

Now as to only given out in Latin, it seems absurd to me to think that all the Jews with the Song of Solomon were reading it in Latin instead of in Hebrew. And I doubt seriously that the Greeks were reading it in Latin instead of in the Greek OT (cf. the Septuagint). Now it may well be that it wasn't read outloud a lot in the vernacular, but then I doubt that much of the Bible in the middle ages was uttered in the vernacular anyway. And to know that it was ONLY read in Latin, would require you to have 2 reliable witnesses in every city & hamlet of the world for 2,000 years, witnesses who at least attended & reported on all church meetings everywhere. How do you know that in the Church of Smyrna in the year 304 AD at 7:30 PM on Sunday August 15, Old Micros Brainikopoulos didn't stand up & hold forth in Hebrew from the Song? How do you know that he didn't spontaneously render it in Lydian?

If you reflect you will see that such a statement is just speculation & impossible to prove.

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

hi to you all

Atwood · Jan 15, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Try the below if you wish to understand the book.

http://servantsplace.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Song-of-Solomon-by-H-A-Ironside.pdf

http://servantsplace.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Song-of-Solomon-by-H-A-Ironside.pdf

Ironsides says:

- “The well of living water” (John 4);
- “The veiled woman” (I Corinthians 11);
- “The precious fruit” (James 5:7);
- “The spotless bride” (Ephesians 5: 27);
- “Unquenchable love” (I Corinthians 13: 8);
- “Love strong as death” (John 15:13);
- “Ointment poured forth” (John 12:3);
- “Draw me” (John 6:44);
- “The Shepherd leading His flock” (John 10: 4, 5, 27);- “The fruits of righteousness” (Philippians 1:11).
Who can fail to see in all these allusions to the Song of Solomon?

Atwood · Jan 15, 2015

THE IRONSIDES' PLOT QUOTED:

This is what I thought I could see behind it all. Up there in the North Country, in the mountaindistrict of Ephraim, King Solomon had a vineyard (we are told that in the 11th verse of the lastchapter), and he let it out to keepers, to an Ephraimite family.
Apparently the husband and father was dead, but there was a mother and at least two brothers,two sons.

We read, “My mother’s children were angry with me.” In Hebrew it is, “My mother’s sons.”
There may have been more sons, but there were at least two. And then there were two daughters,two sisters, a little one spoken of in the 8th chapter — “We have a little sister.” She was a littleundeveloped one. And then there was the older daughter, the Shulamite. It would seem as thoughthis one was the “ugly duckling,” or the “Cinderella” of the family. Her brothers did notappreciate her and foisted hard tasks upon her, denying her the privileges that a growing girlmight have expected in a Hebrew home. “My mother’s sons were angry with me.” That makesme wonder whether they were not her half brothers, if this were not a divided family.

“My mother’s sons were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; butmine own vineyard have I not kept” (1:6).
They said to her, “No; you can’t loll around the house; you get out and get to work. Look afterthe vineyard.”

She was responsible to prune the vines and to set the traps for the little foxes that spoiled thevines. They also committed to her care the lambs and the kids of the flock.
It was her responsibility to protect and find suitable pasture for them. She worked hard, and wasin the sun from early till late.

“Mine own vineyard have I not kept.” She meant, “While working so hard in the field, I haveno opportunity to look after myself.”

What girl is there that does not value a few hours in front of the looking-glass, the opportunity tofix her hair and to beautify herself in any lawful way? She had no opportunity to care for herown person, and so she says, “My own vineyard have I not kept.”
I do not suppose she ever knew the use of cosmetics of any kind; and yet as she looked out onthe road she would see the beautiful ladies of the court riding on their palfreys and in theirpalanquins, and as she got a glimpse of them, or as she bent over a woodland spring and saw herown reflection, she would say, “I am sunburned but comely, and if I only had the opportunity,I could be as beautiful as the rest of them.” That is all involved in that expression, “Mine own vineyard have I not kept.”

One day as she was caring for her flock she looked up, and to her embarrassment there stood atall and handsome stranger-shepherd, one she had never seen before, gazing intently upon her,and she exclaimed, “Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath lookedupon me.”
And then she gives the explanation, “My mother’s children were angry with me; they mademe the keeper of the vineyards ; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.”

But he answers quietly without any offensive forwardness, “I was not thinking of you asswarthy and sunburnt and unpleasant to look upon. To my mind you are altogether lovely;behold, thou art fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.”

Of course that went a long way toward a friendship, and so little by little that friendship ripenedinto affection, and affection into love, and finally this shepherd had won the heart of theshepherdess. Then he went away, but before he went, he said, “Some day I am coming for you,and I am going to make you my bride.”

And she believed him. Probably no one else did. Her brothers did not believe him, the people inthe mountain country felt she was a poor simple country maiden who had been deceived by thisstrange man. She had inquired of him where he fed his flock, but he put her off with an evasiveanswer, and yet she trusted him. He was gone a long time. Sometimes she dreamed of him andwould exclaim, “The voice of my beloved,” only to find that all was quiet and dark about her.But still she trusted him.
One day there was a great cloud of dust on the road and the country people ran to see what itmeant. Here came a glorious cavalcade. There was the king’s bodyguard and the king himself,and they stopped just opposite the vineyard. To the amazement of the shepherdess, the royaloutriders came to her with the announcement, “The king has sent us for you.”

“For me?” she asked.
“Yes, come.”
And in obedience she went, and when she looked into the face of the king, behold, the king wasthe shepherd who had won her heart, and she said, “I am my beloved’s, and his desire is toward me.”

http://servantsplace.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Song-of-Solomon-by-H-A-Ironside.pdf
(SPACING ADDED)

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

The song of Solomon is all about the cross.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Atwood said:

I said it was written in hebrew then in Greek and Latin... You just want to read and say anything, not actually reading anything I say so why say anything ? So please stop twisting my words...if you know history then you know of the persecution of the early church " see Waldenses " allll the way up to the 15 century this was going on...I never had to go to a school to learn or call myself something other then what I am ... A child of God.

And what do you mean KJV is not the issue ... Then you post the verse in another version lol.... I don't read the ASV, I read the KJV, and this is what it says...

6Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

Wycliffe and Tyndale shared a common belief: that the Bible should be available to the common man in his own language, not just Latin (which meant that only highly educated Catholic priests and aristocracy could read the Bible as it existed in the early 14th century).

Tyndale took advantage of a new technology called the printing press to allow a much wider distribution of his translation of the Bible.

Thomas Wolsey, a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, condemned William Tyndale in 1526 for printing the New Testament in English.

Oddly enough, Tyndale's work was utilized heavily in the creation of the King James Bible some 75 years after his death.

With the publication of the Bible in English, common folk were free to study and understand the word of God for themselves. The priests, as well as the Catholic church, saw this as a direct attack on the monopoly of Bible knowledge and interpretation they had enjoyed for hundreds of years. Even today, I believe the Catholic church's official Bible is in Latin (ref link #2).

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Atwood said:

I said it was written in hebrew then in Greek and Latin... You just want to read and say anything, not actually reading anything I say so why say anything ? So please stop twisting my words...if you know history then you know of the persecution of the early church " see Waldenses " allll the way up to the 15 century this was going on...I never had to go to a school to learn or call myself something other then what I am ... A child of God.

And what do you mean KJV is not the issue ... Then you post the verse in another version lol.... I don't read the ASV, I read the KJV, and this is what it says...

6Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

Wycliffe and Tyndale shared a common belief: that the Bible should be available to the common man in his own language, not just Latin(which meant that only highly educated Catholic priests and aristocracy could read the Bible as it existed in the early 14th century).

Tyndale took advantage of a new technology called the printing press to allow a much wider distribution of his translation of the Bible.

Thomas Wolsey, a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, condemned William Tyndale in 1526 for printing the New Testament in English.

Oddly enough, Tyndale's work was utilized heavily in the creation of the King James Bible some 75 years after his death.

With the publication of the Bible in English, common folk were free to study and understand the word of God for themselves. The priests, as well as the Catholic church, saw this as a direct attack on the monopoly of Bible knowledge and interpretation they had enjoyed for hundreds of years. Even today, I believe the Catholic church's official Bible is in Latin.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Internet acting up, I apologize for the double post all... Serious subject though, but as I said the book was in Latin for hundreds of years... and no God is not mentioned AT ALL in the SoS.. not even the one verse some would claim ..

So just because something happens doesn't mean God did it... It just means it happens for a reason, so yes, in that sense the SoS, is in there for some reason and purpose... Search your own hearts and intent with it... If one finds substance and meaning ... So be it.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Brainfreeze said:

Just wanted to highlight this, and add this as well...

The Song was accepted into the Jewish canon of scripture in the 2nd century CE, after a period of controversy in the 1st century. It was accepted as canonical because of its supposed authorship by Solomon and based on an allegorical reading where the subject-matter was taken to be not sexual desire but God's love for Israel.[20]

It is one of the overtly mystical Biblical texts for the Kabbalah, which gave esoteric interpretation on all the Hebrew Bible. Following the dissemination of the Zohar in the 13th century, Jewish mysticism took on a metaphorically anthropomorphic erotic element, and Song of Songs is an example of this. In Zoharic Kabbalah, God is represented by a system of ten sephirot emanations, each symbolizing a different attribute of God, comprising both male and female. The Shechina (indwelling Divine presence) was identified with the feminine sephira Malchut, the vessel of Kingship. This symbolizes the Jewish people, and in the body, the female form, identified with the woman in Song of Songs.

There's that word again HizikYah .... KABBALAH, these folks don't stop...

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

The song of Solomon is about the Cross or did you miss it?

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

Brainfreeze said:

Just wanted to highlight this, and add this as well...

The Song was accepted into the Jewish canon of scripture in the 2nd century CE, after a period of controversy in the 1st century. It was accepted as canonical because of its supposed authorship by Solomon and based on an allegorical reading where the subject-matter was taken to be not sexual desire but God's love for Israel.[20]

It is one of the overtly mystical Biblical texts for the Kabbalah, which gave esoteric interpretation on all the Hebrew Bible. Following the dissemination of the Zohar in the 13th century, Jewish mysticism took on a metaphorically anthropomorphic erotic element, and Song of Songs is an example of this. In Zoharic Kabbalah, God is represented by a system of ten sephirot emanations, each symbolizing a different attribute of God, comprising both male and female. The Shechina (indwelling Divine presence) was identified with the feminine sephira Malchut, the vessel of Kingship. This symbolizes the Jewish people, and in the body, the female form, identified with the woman in Song of Songs.

There's that word again HizikYah .... KABBALAH, these folks don't stop...

The hebrew has nothing to do with it, Jesus spoke Aramaic and I speak English what difference does it make other than to say I do something you don't. Hey lets run naked through the tater salad. As if

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Kerry said:

I think you missed everything I just posted...and even double posted, " shrugs ", so be it...

Those who seek truth, surely will find it, I would recommend a lot of prayer with the seeking though.

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

Brainfreeze said:

That is not what the Song of Solomon is about but hey good Idea.

Brainfreeze · Jan 15, 2015

Brainfreeze said:

Oh yeah, and to go along with this post, I apologize to the OP for getting off track a little but it all is parallel with one another. There are some number lovers here, actually quite a few here at CC, so I thought this would be fitting, while you pulled up that thread on Solomon Jason, why don't you pull up your one on " Bible Numbers " as well...

Gematria is an Assyro-Babylonian system of numerology later adopted by Jews that assigns numerical value to a word or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. The best-known example of Gematria is the Hebrew word Chai ("alive"), which is composed of two letters that (using the assignments in the Mispar gadol table shown below) add up to 18. This has made 18 a "lucky number" among Jews, and gifts in multiples of 18 are very popular.[1]

Although the term is Hebrew, it most likely derives from Greek geōmetriā, "geometry", which was used as a translation of gēmaṭriyā, though some scholars believe it to derive from Greek grammateia, rather; it's possible that both words had an influence on the formation of the Hebrew word.[2][3] (Some also hold it to derive from the order of the Greek alphabet, gamma being the third letter of the Greek alphabet (gamma + tria).[4]) The word has been extant in English since the 17th century from translations of works by Giovanni Pico della Mirandola. Although ostensibly derived from Greek, it is largely used in Jewish texts, notably in those associated with the Kabbalah.

Kerry · Jan 15, 2015

The song of Solomon is about Christ love for the church and the churches love for Christ nothing more or less. Get a book.

What is Song of Solomon?

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