Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[Sophia]

Whether you've ever heard my explanation before or not, if we let the Bible interpret itself, then there is only one possible candidate who can fulfill all that is written in relation to "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) and that one candidate is JERUSALEM. God helping me, I'll make a series of posts to prove my claim. I'll now begin with this:

Revelation chapter 17

[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

First of all, in verse 3, we are introduced to TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES:

1. A woman.
2. A scarlet colored beast.

They are NOT one and the same, even though many people erroneously conflate the two. No, there is a "woman" and there is ALSO a "scarlet colored beast" upon which she sits. Although I won't discuss this on this particular thread, I'll tell you plainly that I'm firmly convinced by both scripture and recorded history that the "scarlet colored beast" is the Vatican/the Papacy, but that is another topic for another day. In this thread, I'm going to seek to prove to you and others the identity of the "woman".

Secondly, whoever this "woman" is, she is "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" (Revelation 17:6). If we continue reading on to chapter 18 of the book of Revelation, then this "woman", "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5), and her insatiable taste for blood is a little bit further described. Yes, we read:

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Revelation 18:24)

Yes, whoever this "woman" is, God holds her accountable not only for "the blood of the saints", "the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" and "the blood of prophets", but also for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth". If we're to believe scripture and to let the Bible interpret itself, then, again, there is only one city upon the face of the earth who all of this could possibly be referring to and that one city is JERUSALEM. We read:

"Nevertheless I must walk to-day and to-morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." (Luke 13:33)

Those are the recorded words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem". IT CANNOT BE! Therefore, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" must be JERUSALEM.

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:" (Acts 7:51-52)

Again, it was the Jews of Jerusalem who not only persecuted the prophets, but who also slew them. As such, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to JERUSALEM.

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." (I Thessalonians 2:14-16)

Same scenario. Yes, once more, it is the Jews of Judaea or those of Jerusalem who have "both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets". Once more, when you read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to JERUSALEM.

Remember, now, that whoever this "woman" is, she was also held accountable by God for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24). Wow! I wouldn't want such an accusation leveled against me, would you? Well, again, there's only one city upon the face of the earth who is worthy of this charge and I'll let Jesus Christ tell you exactly which city that is:

"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Matthew 23:34-39)

Again, those were the words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that upon Jerusalem would "come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar". Yes, Jesus Christ cried, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets" and, again, "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24) and this "her" or this "woman" is JERUSALEM and JERUSALEM alone.

Well, that's just an introduction. There are multiple ways to prove that the "woman" or "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is JERUSALEM and this is but one of them.

Please click on the link to this active thread. JesusIsTheChrist proves this point very well and clearly in this series of posts. There are several that follow. This is only the first.

 

[Sophia]

…

In case you did not know, the double arrow next to the name bring you to the original thread/post.

 

[veryelect]

Right off the bat I want to confess I'm currently a partial-preterist, or I'd rather call it orthodoxical preterism because it's the full and hyper-preterist that need the qualifier. So I'm going to try to explain to you with 15 reasons why I believe Babylon the Great Harlot of Revelation 17-18 can be none other then 1st century ancient Jerusalem (Israel). Beware, this is a long and exhaustive study and I'm sorry in advance for any typos.

I would also like to tell you I'm not anti-Israel, neither am I pro-Israel. I'm not anti-semite. I'm pro-peace, both for Israel and the Palestine.

Revelation 17, Who is Mystery Babylon
​

15 reasons why Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 is 1st Century Jerusalem. Granted, some of these characteristics may apply to other cities, however, all of these characteristics must apply and be true to properly identify who the MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS is.
1) Revelation 17:1 makes reference to a great harlot who sits on many waters. Verse 15 helps us a lot in telling who this great harlot is. The word “waters” can not be interpreted literally here, because verse 15 interprets this for us. The waters are “are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.” I believe that Jesus is making a comparison here that ancient Babylon in its gloriest of days is much like 1st Century Jerusalem in its day.


1st Century Jerusalem had a great influence over the nations of the world (Roman inhabitants, Roman occupied areas, the world which was known to the region of Roman). It was the last major cities that the Roman armies had conquered. It was the center for trade and worship in the region. From the very beginning it was to bless the families of the Earth (Earth can mean inhabited land or region, ex Matt. 2:6 uses same word is use but most translators translate G1093 “ge” here as land. I believe whenever you see “ge” or Earth in Revelation, it should be translated as land in most or all cases). In Genesis 12:3 God says, “I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” (same here, Earth, H0127 can simply mean ground, land, territory, or whole inhabited earth etc.). This is the first and initial calling of Abram and the promise that through Abram the whole world will be blessed. This rings true because through Abraham came the messiah. What greater blessing is for the world is there, the families of the Earth, that messiah came through Abram to Jews and gentiles, the whole world has a redeemer that wasn't just meant for a race or nationality but for everyone, nor a little strip of land but the whole globe!


What does the name Babylon mean? It has two meanings, first it means gate of deity, many web sites put it “The form Babylon is the Greek variant of Akkadian Babilu (bāb-ilû, meaning "Gateway of the god(s)", translating Sumerian Ka.dingir.ra): also see babylon. definition | Bible Dictionary Jerusalem (the head or capital of Israel) was to be the true Babylon, for God actually had His dwelling there in the temple and in which it actually was a gateway, because God opened the gate of heaven and sent to us His son. Second, it means babel, which is to confuse. A point I'd like to make about Babilu, “Gateway of God” is this, Jerusalem was center of Old Testament, Old covenant worship because of the temple. No other city, nation, establishment, whatever, can make this claim. Another point about Babel, it was the confusion of tongues, it's the beginning of all the different languages (Gen. 11:9) and all the nations originated from here (I'm not saying that the story of babel took place geographically where Jerusalem was). What world changing and significant event is this!; and what other very significant and world changing event took place? One in Jerusalem! Where the Jewish religious zealots confused their true messiah as a faults one. The old testament scriptures are clear, Daniel's prophecies, Isaiah 53, etc. speak of it, they shouldn't have missed Him. Jerusalem was the (like a) capital of the nation that was supposed to bring spiritual blessings to the world. They had everything, the law, the prophets, the temple, the word of God, and for a short time they were the (God's) capital of the world. But through their sinfulness, rejecting God and Christ, they were dispensed through out the Earth (Assyrian and Babylon captivities), just as original Babel was scattered in Gen 11:9. Amazing what God had done in Babel, and what He had undone in Jerusalem at pentecost (see the parallel).


Therefore, at the time of Christ, many Jews came from all over the region to worship, especially at the passover celebration. They came from different nations (which also could be interpreted tribes) and also spoke different languages (Acts 2 is proof of this, the Day of Pentecost). 1st Century Jerusalem became the center where all tribes from all over the region gathered for the Jewish festivals. Acts 2:5 verifies this, that the Jews gathered from all nations. What other nation, city, establishment or whatever, who is called a harlot (Jerusalem is the only city in the OT that called a harlot. I'll further explain in reason 2), who can claim such a gathering as this? (Rev. 17:15, “are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues”). My answer is 1st Century Jerusalem.


2) Babylon the great harlot is guilty of fornication. There is overwhelming biblical evidence that Israel, Jerusalem in particular is a great harlot and guilty of adultery:
Isaiah 1:21
How the faithful city has become a harlot!
It was full of justice;
Righteousness lodged in it,
But now murderers. (NKJV)
Jeremiah 13:27
“I have seen your adulteries
And your lustful neighings,
The lewdness of your harlotry,
Your abominations on the hills in the fields.
Woe to you, O Jerusalem!
Will you still not be made clean?”
Under the heading in Isaiah 57 “Israel’s Futile Idolatry” in have in verse 3 (NKJV):
“You offspring of the adulterer and the harlot!”

Please read all of Ezekiel 16, this should convince you who the greatest harlot was for in verse 15 God says, “But you trusted in your own beauty, played the harlot because of your fame, and poured out your harlotry on everyone passing by who would have it.” Also verses 25-26 “You built your high places at the head of every road, and made your beauty to be abhorred. You offered yourself to everyone who passed by, and multiplied your acts of harlotry. You also committed harlotry with the Egyptians, your very fleshly neighbors, and increased your acts of harlotry to provoke Me to anger.”God later calls them and adulterous wife, and He states that they actually paid other nations to be their lovers. Normally men pay the harlot for sex, but here the harlot pays the strangers for them to come and have sex with her. What greater harlotry can there be? Granted, all cities and nations play the harlot to some degree, but what other nation or city is there that God calls His wife, who pays and actually begs other strangers (nations) to be her lover (idolatry). Jerusalem was so bad in her fornication that they were worse then a normal prostitute, who gets paid for being one. But Jerusalem paid her lovers to come and be in bed with her. Again, who else in scripture is called a great harlot? Also read Ezekiel 23.


3) Who is the woman sitting on the scarlet beast in revelation 17:3? And who is the beast? Back in Revelation 17:9-10 and Rev. 13 we see that the beast is 1st century Ancient Rome. The Roman empire is the beast corporately and Nero is the the beast individually. Many futurist say the beast is a revived Rome, America, or some religious establishment but of coarse nothing can be proven if it's yet future, and neither is a revived Roman empire, nor America, nor a religious institution referred to as a beast any where in scripture. Proving that ancient Rome is the beast is another topic, so I won't get in it here. So if you disagree with me that the beast is ancient Rome then you'll just have to ask yourself what if it is, and ponder the possibility (Please take into consideration all the time references in Rev. 1-1,3, the letters Rev. 2 and 3, Rev. 22:7 and 20. Please take into consideration that the Lord told Daniel to seal up the book for the time is not yet, but the Lord told John not to seal up the book, in other words, to push it out now, for the time is at hand, Rev. 22:10... And yes, I believe Rev. was written before 70
AD. See Dating of Revelation).


The woman sitting on the beast can't be Rome, because it wouldn't make any sense having Rome riding on Rome. So the woman and beast have to be two separate things and not the same. In that day, Jerusalem was the only city that was allowed to continue in Godly temple worship (even though some of the sacrifices were also made to other gods and to the emperors in the temple). The Roman empire had conquered all the surrounding nations (the 4th Satanic beast in Daniels prophecy). Jerusalem was a well thought of city for all around, therefore to some extent and more then any other city, was allowed be self-governed. In this way, Jerusalem rode on the back of the Roman empire. Jerusalem enjoyed and relied on Rome for her economics and military protection. But later Jerusalem grew more boldly and confrontational to Rome and it's emperors. Jerusalem invoked Rome to anger and Rome grew hateful towards Jerusalem and the Jews (see point 12). All other populated areas had to submit to the full worship of the emperor Caesar, which is why we have the 7 letters to the churches in Rev. 2-3 where Jesus warns them not to loose heart and to encourage them to be over-comers of the intense persecution (both from their own countrymen and the Romans). Actually, the Jewish religious zealots where the first ones to persecution the Christians and actually encouraged the Roman authorities to join them. We see this with Jesus' own crucifixion and in the book of Acts regarding the apostle Paul and through out the New Testament (read Acts 24:1-3 and John 19:15).


4) Babylon was clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4) see references Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Ezekiel 23:40-42; Exodus 28 – read about the attire they had to wear. There is nothing more God could have done for them as far as blessings go. They were supposed to be cream of the crop- Isaiah 5:4. Notice in Exodus 28:6 the particular colors of the garments, the breastplate, ephod, robe, tunic, turban, and sash are all made with the colors purple and scarlet. In Rev. 17:4 the woman was dressed in attire of purple and scarlet.

The beast rises out of the sea. The sea is a sea of people. The harlot is that woman arrayed in purple (royalty) that rides on the beast. And the reason that no one can make war with the beast is because there is no one to make war with it. In a one world government, there is no one to go against it because it fills the whole world. No one there to be against it. So, she is a one world religious government whore. Why is she a harlot? Because it's made of GOD'S children worshiping ant CHRIST, which is the devil. This is end time Babylon. Babylon means babble, just like the tower of babel. Anyone that doesn't speak TRUTH is basically babbling.

 

[damombomb]

The islam move "the coming is near" is about the mahdi who is to come.
He could more than likely be what the bible describes as the ac.

In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (/ˈmɑːdi/; Arabic: مهدي‎, ISO 233: mahdī, English: Guided One) is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for seven, nine, or nineteen years (according to differing interpretations)[SUP][1][/SUP] before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah / literally, the Day of Resurrection)[SUP][2][/SUP] and will rid the world of evil.[SUP][3][/SUP]
There is no explicit reference to the Mahdi in the Qu'ran, but references to him are found in hadith (the reports and traditions of Muhammad's teachings collected after his death). According to Islamic tradition, the Mahdi's tenure will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Isa), who is to assist the Mahdi against the Masih ad-Dajjal (literally, the "false Messiah" or Antichrist).[SUP][4][/SUP] Differences exist in the concept of the Mahdi between Sunni Muslims and adherents of the Shia tradition. For Sunnis, the Mahdi is Muhammad's successor who is yet to come. For most Shia Muslims, the Mahdi was born but disappeared and will remain hidden from humanity until he reappears to bring justice to the world, a doctrine known as the Occultation. For Twelver Shia, this "hidden Imam" is Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam.
Throughout history, various individuals have claimed to be the Mahdi. These have included Muhammad Jaunpuri, founder of the Mahdavia sect, the Báb (Siyyid Ali Muhammad) founder of Bábism, Muhammad Ahmad, who established the Mahdist state in Sudan in the late 19th century and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya sect.

 

[posthuman]

(musical interlude)

♫♪

[video=youtube_share;xNZ0QHvt7VA]http://youtu.be/xNZ0QHvt7VA[/video]

♪♪

that wicked city is falling down!​

 

[veryelect]

The islam move "the coming is near" is about the mahdi who is to come.
He could more than likely be what the bible describes as the ac.

In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (/ˈmɑːdi/; Arabic: مهدي‎, ISO 233: mahdī, English: Guided One) is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for seven, nine, or nineteen years (according to differing interpretations)[SUP][1][/SUP] before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah / literally, the Day of Resurrection)[SUP][2][/SUP] and will rid the world of evil.[SUP][3][/SUP]
There is no explicit reference to the Mahdi in the Qu'ran, but references to him are found in hadith (the reports and traditions of Muhammad's teachings collected after his death). According to Islamic tradition, the Mahdi's tenure will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Isa), who is to assist the Mahdi against the Masih ad-Dajjal (literally, the "false Messiah" or Antichrist).[SUP][4][/SUP] Differences exist in the concept of the Mahdi between Sunni Muslims and adherents of the Shia tradition. For Sunnis, the Mahdi is Muhammad's successor who is yet to come. For most Shia Muslims, the Mahdi was born but disappeared and will remain hidden from humanity until he reappears to bring justice to the world, a doctrine known as the Occultation. For Twelver Shia, this "hidden Imam" is Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam.
Throughout history, various individuals have claimed to be the Mahdi. These have included Muhammad Jaunpuri, founder of the Mahdavia sect, the Báb (Siyyid Ali Muhammad) founder of Bábism, Muhammad Ahmad, who established the Mahdist state in Sudan in the late 19th century and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya sect.

Just a thought, not meant to open up a can of anything, but look at the locust army of Joel and Revelation. The definition of the word locust is Arbe'. Next look up the definition of the word Arab. They are the same. Both words are Arbe'.

 

[guardmyheart]

I think mankind in general is a whore. We left our first love in the Garden of Eden and chase other loves (lovers). When confronted with God's law, people bristle even today with all of our theological expertise! Pharisees.

Here is one people like to cast aside or water down as much as possible:

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in the earth, or that is in the heavens above the earth, or that is in the waters beneath the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyselves unto them nor serve them...

God is a jealous God... and we chase other loves.

Many people would argue that we do not love our images today. (definition of worship.) But, ask people to get rid of their images and to stop staring blankly at the TV or video games and you will see why I believe all of humanity is the whore.

Love the Lord your God with ALL of your heart, with ALL of your mind, with ALL of your strength.

God's commandments are given for our own BENEFIT.

Ok, time for you to bristle and to scoff... go ahead.

 

[PlainWord]

"Mystery Babylon, the Mother of all Harlots and Abomination of the Earth" is ISLAM and it is also a city, MECCA. There is absolutely no doubt about this. It is not Israel as the OP suggests. The BEAST is a group of Arab "nations" led by the Man of Sin (AKA, the King of the North, AKA the AntiChrist as many call him).

ISLAM is the world's false religion. Judaism is not a false religion, they do worship the true God. They missed their Messiah but they aren't worshiping Allah. Revelation is filled with references to ISLAM and MECCA, their false city. By calling MECCA, Babylon, John is telling us that worship of this "harlot" is like the former original Babylon.

How did the original people of Babylon worship?

Dan 3: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.”

How do Muslims worship? Those in MECCA circle the Kaaba Stone then fall down and worship it. Those not in MECCA face MECCA and fall down on their prayer mats and worship the Kaaba Stone. In Muslim nations, a call to worship goes out. (This almost happened at Duke University last week). What is this call? It is music - Arab worship music, more precisely. Does John speak of this at the time of today's Babylon being destroyed? You bet he does, including the music they listen to.

Rev 18: “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore.

If you refuse to bow down to MECCA and pray in today's Muslim world, what happens to you?

Rev 13: ...and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Are we told what peoples cause Satan's Great Tribulation? Absolutely.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]So I looked, and behold, a pale (CHLOROS = GREEN, not pale) horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

The above is ISLAM. Green is the official color of Islam. Who rides ISLAM? Death. What follows the martyrs of ISLAM? Hades. How much of the world is ISLAM? 1/4. How do they kill? By all the means mentioned. Where does the final BEAST Empire come from?

13 Then Istood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[SUP][b][/SUP] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

Where are the leopard, bear and lion nations?

I would suggest that the Leopard nation extends to cover Turkey. It is this region where the Man of Sin (AKA AntiChrist) comes. They will attack Saudi Arabia, and utterly destroy MECCA. This might sound crazy to some but not to the Saudis who are building a 560 mile long barrier to stop ISIS.

 

[guardmyheart]

How was the map labeled? Back when I subscribed to a politacal\religious answer to this topic... I had always seen the Bear references in Revelation as referring to Russia.

The Hebrews were looking for a political/religious leader Messiah. Not one that dealt with their own personal sins... This is another good reason to see the whore, not on a map but in a mirror.

 

[keeth]

The Reformers had it right. Though the vast majority of "Protestantism" today has rejected their testimony, they were correct. The Counter Reformation of Rome has been moving forward, while the Protestant Reformation has been losing its force for many centuries now. This is all according to biblical prophecy though. The deadly wound of the first beast of Revelation must be healed before Christ returns. Most who consider themselves "Protestant" today simply reject the testimony of their forefathers, and are no longer therefore observing events in their proper prophetic sequence or even understanding.

[FONT=&quot]FRANCESCO PETRARCH, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Poet (1304-1374) Concerning the church of Rome.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] “ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vengeaunce must fall on thee, thow filthie whore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Of Babilon, thow breaker of Christ’s fold,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That from acorns, and from the water colde,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Art riche become with making many poore.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thow treason’s neste that in thie harte dost holde[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Of cankard malice, and of mischief more[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Than pen can wryte, or may with tongue be tolde,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Slave to delights that chastity hath solde;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For wyne and ease which settith all thie store[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Uppon whoredome and none other lore,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In thye pallais of strompetts yonge and olde[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Theare walks Plentie, and Belzebub thye Lorde;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Guydes thee and them, and doth thye raigne uphold:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is but late, as writing will recorde,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That poore thow weart without lande or goolde;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yet how hathe golde and pryde, by one accorde,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In wickedness so spreadd thie lyf abrode,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That it dothe stinke before the face of God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]( Francesco Petrarch, Sonnet CV, translated by Wyatt (?), in The Sonnets, Triumphs, and Other Poems of Petrarch, pp. 135, 136.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“ Thou Babylon, seated on the wild banks of the Rhone, shall I call thee famous or infamous, O harlot, who hast committed harlotry with the kings of the earth? Truly thou art the same that the holy Evangelist saw in spirit, the same, I say, and not another, sitting upon many waters. Either literally, being surrounded by three rivers, or, in the profusion of this world’s goods, among which thou sittest wanton and secure, unmindful of eternal riches; or, in the sense laid down by him that beheld thee, that the waters on which you the harlot sit are peoples and nations and languages. Recognize thine own features. A women clothed in purple and scarlet, decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of abomination in the impurity of her fornication-Dost thou not know thyself, O Babylon? Unless perhaps what is written upon her forehead is wrong, Babylon the great, you indeed are Babylon the little.” ( Translated from Petrarch, Epistolarum Sine Titulo, Liber, letter headed Babylonem Gallicam Describit, in Opera, vol. 2, p. 807. )[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]WALTER BRUTE [/FONT][FONT=&quot]fourteenth-century British or Welsh layman and Lollard scholar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“ If the city of Rome do allow his Traditions, and do disallow Christ’s holy Commandments, and Christ’s Doctrine, that it may confirm his Traditions; then is she Babylon the Great, or the Daughter of Babylon, and the Great Whore sitting upon many waters, with whom the Kings of the Earth have committed Fornication, and the Inhabitants of the earth are become drunken with the Wine of her Harlotry lying open to Bawdry. With whose spiritual Whoredom, Enchantments, Witchcrafts, and Simon Magus Merchandises, the whole round world is infected and seduced; saying in her heart, I sit as a Queen, and Widow I am not, neither shall I see Sorrow and mourning. (Registrum, p. 288; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 546.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN HUSS, OR HUS ( 1369-1415) “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Lord shall destroy the head and the tail- [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that is, the Pope and his prophets, masters, doctors, priests, who under the false pretext of sanctity conceal the abomination of the beast. Pray, what greater abomination can their be than a harlot who should parade herself and offer herself publicly? (The Letters of John Hus, edited by Herbert B. Workman and R. Martin Pope, Letter XXVI, pp. 118, 119.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]GIROLAMO SAVONAROLA (1452-1498) “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Roman church is full of simony and vileness…. I visualized a black cross over Babylon-Rome with the inscription: Wrath of the Lord. And it rained upon her swords and knives, lances and weapons of all kinds, as well as hailstones and brimstones in a terrible thunderstorm in deepest gloom. (Savonarola, Auswahl, pp. 120, 121.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] “ Fly from Rome, for Babylon signifies confusion, and Rome hath confused all the Scriptures, confused all vices together, confused everything. Fly, then, from Rome, and come to repentance.” (Villari, op. cit., p.413, citing Lenten Sermon (1496), for Wednesday after fifth Sunday.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MARTIN LUTHER (1483-1546) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“ I cry aloud on behalf of liberty and conscience, and I proclaim with confidence that no kind of law can with any justice be imposed on Christians, whether by men or angels, except so far as they themselves will; for we are free from all. If such laws are imposed on us, we ought so to endure them as still to preserve the consciousness of our liberty. We ought to know and steadfastly to protest that a wrong is being done to that liberty, though we may bear and even glory in that wrong; taking care neither to justify the tyrant nor to murmur against the tyranny. ‘Who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? (1 Pet. 3:13.) All things work together for good to the elect of God. Since, however, there are but few who understand the glory of baptism and the happiness of Christian liberty, or who can understand them for the tyranny of the Pope- I for my part will set free my own mind and deliver my conscience, by declaring aloud to the Pope and all papists, that, unless they shall throw aside all their laws and traditions, and restore liberty to the churches of Christ, and cause that liberty to be taught, they are guilty of the death of all the souls which are perishing in this wretched bondage, and that the papacy is in truth nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the Church; while he yet sits in the Church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny. It has extinguished faith, darkened the sacraments, crushed the gospel; while it has enjoined and multiplied without end its own laws, which are not only wicked and sacrilegious, but also most unlearned and barbarous.” (Luther, First Principles, pp. 196, 197 (Schriften, vol. 19. Cols. 70, 71).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NICOLAUS VON AMSDORF (1483-1565) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]‘ This beast we know is the Roman Empire, which carries and supports the red Babylonian whore, which is the Papacy. .” (Nicolaus von Amsdorf, Funff furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig. D1r.-D2r.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MATTHIAS FLAGIUS (Vlacich) (1520-1575) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The sixth and last reason for our separation from the pope and his followers be this: By many writings of our church, by the Divinely Inspired Word, by prophecies concerning the future and by the special characteristics of the papacy, it has been profusely and thoroughly proved that the pope with his prelates and clergy is the real true great Antichrist, that his kingdom is the real Babylon, a never ceasing fountain and a mother of all abominable idolatry. (Flacius, Etliche Hochwichtige Ursachen und Grunde, warumb das sich alle Christen von dem Antichrist…..absondern sollen.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ANDREAS MUSCULUS (1514-1581) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]….. Now since 800 years the pope of Rome from the beginning of his Antichristian kingdom has started to slay, to kill, and to destroy. Many a learned man, many pious Christians who have comprehended this abomination, protested against it, and refused to worship the Bride of Babylon, were put to death by him and exterminated.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Translated from Andreas Musculus, Vom tungsten Tage.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]HEINRICH BULLINGER (1504-1575) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The scarlet woman of Revelation 17 is “the Romish church” and Rome the seat of the Beast. (Bullinger, A Hundred Sermons upon the Apocalips, preface; see also his Decades, decade 4, sermon 7, pp. 273 ff.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]WILLIAM TYNDALE (1484-1536) And [they] have set up that great idol, the whore of Babylon, antichrist of Rome, whom they call pope; and have conspired against all commonwealths, and have made them a several kingdom, wherein it is lawful, unpunished, to work all abomination. (Tyndale, The Obedience of a Christian Man, in Works, vol. 1, p. 191.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NICHOLAS RIDLEY (1500-1555) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The head, under Satan, of all mischief is Antichrist and his brood; and the same is he which is the Babylonical beast, The beast is he whereupon the whore sitteth. The whore is that city, saith John in plain words, which hath empire over the kings of the earth. This whore hath a golden cup of abominations in her hand, whereof she maketh to drink the kings of the earth, and of the wine of this harlot all nations hath drunk; yea, and kings of the earth have lain by this whore; and merchants of the earth, by virtue of her pleasant merchandise, have been made rich.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now what city is there in the whole world, that when John wrote, ruled over the kings of the earth; or what city can be read of in any time, that of the city itself challenged the empire over the kings of the earth, but only the city of Rome, and that since the usurpation of that See hath grown to her full strength? And is it not read, that old and ancient writers understood Peter’s former Epistle to be written at Rome, and it to be called of him in the same Epistle, in plain terms, Babylon! BY the abominations thereof, I understand all the whole trade of the Romish religion, under the name and title of Christ, which is contrary to the only rule of all true religion, that is God’s word.(“Conferences…Between Nicholas Ridley and Hugh Latimer,” in Ridley, Works, p. 258)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN PHILPOT (1516-1555) St John in the Apocalypse telleth us plainly, that none of those who are written in the book of life do receive the mark of the beast, which is, of the papistical synagogue, either in their foreheads or else in their hands, that is, apparently or obediently….Finally, in the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] of the Apocalypse, God biddeth us plainly to depart from this Babylonical synagogue, and not to be partakers of her trespass……….[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ponder therefore well, good brethren and sisters, these scriptures, which be written for your erudition and reformation; whereof one iota is not written in vain; which be utterly against all counterfeit collusion to be used of us with the papists in their fantastical religion. (Philpot, Examinations and Writings, letter1, p. 222.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OHN BRADFORD (1510-1555) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ah, wretches then that we be, if we will defile either part with the rose-coloured whore of Babylon’s filthy mass-abomination! It had been better for us never to have been washed, than so to wallow ourselves in the filthy puddle of popery: it had been better never to have known the truth, than thus to betray it. Surely, surely, let such men fear, that their ‘latter end be not worse than the beginning.’ (John Bradford in Writings [vol. 1] {Sermons, Meditations, Examinations}, vol. 1, p. 390.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN HOOPER (1495-1555) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Of that wicked and pestilent see and chair of Rome, which is indeed the very whore of Babylon that St John describeth in the Revelation of Jesus Christ,sitting upon a seven headed beast, which St John himself interpreted to be seven hills, and the children in the grammar-school do know that Rome is called civitas septem montium, the city of seven hills. (Hooper, An Apology Against the Untrue and Slanderous Reports, in Works, vol. 2, p. 554.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]THOMAS CRANMER (1489-1556) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And in the seventeenth chapter he lively setteth forth the pope in his own colours, under the person of the whore of Babylon being drunken with the blood of saints; pointing, as it were with his finger, who this whore of Babylon is, and the place where she shall reign, saying: ‘The woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Now what other city reigned at that time, or at any time since, over the christian kings of the earth, but only Rome? Whereof it followed Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. (Cranmer, Works, vol. 1, pp. 62, 63.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Edwin Sandys (1519-1588) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is our apostasy. We have forsaken him that hath forsaken God, and whom God hath forsaken: we have left that man of sin, that rose-colored harlot with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, that triple-crowned beast, that double-sworded tyrant, that thief and murderer, who hath robbed so many souls of salvation, and sucked so much innocent blood of christian martyrs, that adversary unto Christ, that pretensed vicar, who hath displaced the person, not only taking upon him Christ’s room and office, but also boasting himself as if he were a god, and being content of his parasites so to be called. (Edwin Sandys, The Sermons of Edwin Sandys, p. 389.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jean (John) Calvin (1509-1564) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Daniel and Paul had predicted that Antichrist would sit in the temple of God. The head of that cursed and abominable kingdom, in the Western Church, we affirm to be the Pope. When his seat is placed in the temple of God, it suggests, that his kingdom will be such, that he will not abolish the name of Christ or the Church. Hence it appears , that we by no means deny that churches may exist, even under his tyranny; but he has profaned them by sacrilegious impiety, afflicted them by cruel despotism, corrupted and almost terminated their existence by false and pernicious doctrines; like poisonous potions, in such churches, Christ lies half buried, the gospel is suppressed, piety exterminated, and the worship of God almost abolished; in a word, they are altogether in such a state of confusion, that they exhibit a picture of Babylon, rather than the holy city of God. (Calvin, Institutes, vol. 2, pp. 314,315. The English translation of 1561, fol. 15v, gives the same thought, only in the quaint but often more ivivd phrasing of the time.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]JOHN NAPIER (NEPER) (1550-1617) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]In the former proposition was described the holie Spouse of Christ, here is to bee described the filthie whoore of Sathan, there that Ladie, who is adorned with the Sunne, Starres, and heavenlie virtues: here that Adultresse, who glories in golde, silver, precious stones, and worllie pleasures: there shee, who is persecuted by the Dragon, here she unto whome the Dragon doeth give authoritie: There she, who is chaced into the wilderness, and hath no lodge to hide her in; here she who impireth above all people, and is the Metropolitane citie of the world. And finallie, seeing in al things this Whoore, or whoorish Babylon, is contrarious to Christes holie Spouse, lette us, and all Christians trie her out, as our detestable and deadlie enemie, and see what Babylon she is. We say then, that this Babylon, is not that reall Babylon of Chaldee, but Rome, for these reasons. First, for that this Babylon is called mysterium Babylon, that is to say, mysticall or figurative Babylon: Therefore, it is not Babylon it self in Chaldee. (John Napier, A Plaine Discovery of the Whole Revelation of Saint Iohn., p. 34. This first reason was supported by a series of supplemental arguments.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For firste (saieth the text) the Woman that sate upon this Beast, is the great Citie, that sitteth over the Kings of the earth: So the chiefe seate and citie of the Latine or Romane Empire, is that great citie Rome, that had Empire overe all the kingdomes of the earth. (Ibid., pp. 36,37; and introductory table.)[/FONT]

 

[Mitspa]

I really don't see how anyone could deny this? (above) and consider every country that has come under the rule of the RCC is cursed and its people are oppressed and its children raped.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

The Reformers had it right.

No, they had it wrong. As with many today, they made the fatal mistake of CONFLATING the "woman" who sits upon "the beast" with "the beast". IOW, they are TWO DISTINCT ENTITIES. Anyhow, I fully agree with the Protestant Reformers (based upon scripture and recorded history and not solely upon anything which the Reformers believed) that the Papacy/the Vatican is "the beast", BUT SHE IS NOT THE "WOMAN". The "woman" is JERUSALEM and JERUSALEM alone and anybody who wants to see valid scriptural reasons why only JERUSALEM can be "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) can follow this link and then read the several consecutive posts that I made just yesterday on another thread on this very topic:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ome-signs-times-everywhere-6.html#post1857829

 

[kennethcadwell]

"Mystery Babylon, the Mother of all Harlots and Abomination of the Earth" is ISLAM and it is also a city, MECCA. There is absolutely no doubt about this. It is not Israel as the OP suggests. The BEAST is a group of Arab "nations" led by the Man of Sin (AKA, the King of the North, AKA the AntiChrist as many call him).

ISLAM is the world's false religion. Judaism is not a false religion, they do worship the true God. They missed their Messiah but they aren't worshiping Allah. Revelation is filled with references to ISLAM and MECCA, their false city. By calling MECCA, Babylon, John is telling us that worship of this "harlot" is like the former original Babylon.

How did the original people of Babylon worship?

Dan 3: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.”

How do Muslims worship? Those in MECCA circle the Kaaba Stone then fall down and worship it. Those not in MECCA face MECCA and fall down on their prayer mats and worship the Kaaba Stone. In Muslim nations, a call to worship goes out. (This almost happened at Duke University last week). What is this call? It is music - Arab worship music, more precisely. Does John speak of this at the time of today's Babylon being destroyed? You bet he does, including the music they listen to.

Rev 18: “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore.

If you refuse to bow down to MECCA and pray in today's Muslim world, what happens to you?

Rev 13: ...and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Are we told what peoples cause Satan's Great Tribulation? Absolutely.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]So I looked, and behold, a pale (CHLOROS = GREEN, not pale) horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

The above is ISLAM. Green is the official color of Islam. Who rides ISLAM? Death. What follows the martyrs of ISLAM? Hades. How much of the world is ISLAM? 1/4. How do they kill? By all the means mentioned. Where does the final BEAST Empire come from?

13 Then Istood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[SUP][b][/SUP] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.

Where are the leopard, bear and lion nations?

I would suggest that the Leopard nation extends to cover Turkey. It is this region where the Man of Sin (AKA AntiChrist) comes. They will attack Saudi Arabia, and utterly destroy MECCA. This might sound crazy to some but not to the Saudis who are building a 560 mile long barrier to stop ISIS.

What you said here at the end is not crazy, however you have Babylon in the wrong place for the end times set up. As Saudi Arabia is Babylon that gets destroyed by the anitchrist as Revelations 17 shows. There are 10 nations the antichrist gives power to, that go with him to destroy her........

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, they had it wrong. As with many today, they made the fatal mistake of CONFLATING the "woman" who sits upon "the beast" with "the beast". IOW, they are TWO DISTINCT ENTITIES. Anyhow, I fully agree with the Protestant Reformers (based upon scripture and recorded history and not solely upon anything which the Reformers believed) that the Papacy/the Vatican is "the beast", BUT SHE IS NOT THE "WOMAN". The "woman" is JERUSALEM and JERUSALEM alone and anybody who wants to see valid scriptural reasons why only JERUSALEM can be "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) can follow this link and then read the several consecutive posts that I made just yesterday on another thread on this very topic:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ome-signs-times-everywhere-6.html#post1857829

Sorry but what you have been taught is faulty, as Jerusalem by no means fits all the descriptions given in the bible for Babylon. People have tried to place Rome and New York ( or U.S. ) as Babylon to, but they do not fit all the descriptions either. The only place to this day and age that fits all the descriptions from the bible is Saudi Arabia, as it is the home to a dangerous false religion. And its capital Mecca means mother !!!

 

[Sophia]

Sorry but what you have been taught is faulty, as Jerusalem by no means fits all the descriptions given in the bible for Babylon. People have tried to place Rome and New York ( or U.S. ) as Babylon to, but they do not fit all the descriptions either. The only place to this day and age that fits all the descriptions from the bible is Saudi Arabia, as it is the home to a dangerous false religion. And its capital Mecca means mother !!!

Which prophets were killed in Mecca?
Was Christ crucified in Mecca?

The Word tells us that the woman is the "great city" which killed the prophets and crucified Christ.
Muslims NEVER had it right, as they are simply a horn of the beast. To be the adulterous woman, they would have to have been married to the One. This leaves the options of only Israel or part of the Church as the adulterous woman and the "great city", however, the description of the woman and the city fit ONLY Jesrusalem.

Btw, I was not taught this until reading the JesusIsTheChrist posts about it, last night (not taking him as an authority, but seeing in the Word after reading his posts).
I had been taught that the RCC is the adulterous woman... but I now see that Rome did not kill the OT prophets, and was not the city in which Christ was crucified (although they had a hand in it, fitting them as the beast, or a horn of the beast).

 

[ThomistColin]

Which prophets were killed in Mecca?
Was Christ crucified in Mecca?

The Word tells us that the woman is the "great city" which killed the prophets and crucified Christ.
Muslims NEVER had it right, as they are simply a horn of the beast. To be the adulterous woman, they would have to have been married to the One. This leaves the options of only Israel or part of the Church as the adulterous woman and the "great city", however, the description of the woman and the city fit ONLY Jesrusalem.

Btw, I was not taught this until reading JesusIsTheChrist post about it, last night. I had been taught that the RCC is the adulterous woman... but I now see that Rome did not kill the OT prophets, and was not the city in which Christ was crucified (although they had a hand in it, fitting them as the beast, or a horn of the beast).

It doesn't say the woman killed Christ, but is drunk on hte blood of the saints and martyrs.

 

[Sophia]

It doesn't say the woman killed Christ, but is drunk on hte blood of the saints and martyrs.

Rev 17 tells us that she is "the great city".
Rev 11 tells us that the "great city" killed the prophets and was the place of Christ's crucifixion.

Unless there are multiple "the great city"s and multiple "women", the meaning is clear.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Sorry but what you have been taught is faulty, as Jerusalem by no means fits all the descriptions given in the bible for Babylon. People have tried to place Rome and New York ( or U.S. ) as Babylon to, but they do not fit all the descriptions either. The only place to this day and age that fits all the descriptions from the bible is Saudi Arabia, as it is the home to a dangerous false religion. And its capital Mecca means mother !!!

You should be "sorry", but not on behalf of anything which I have written, but rather for your own erroneous posts. I cannot help but notice not a single scriptural citation in your attempted refutation of what I've shared and I think that we both know why that is. Yes, contrary to what you just claimed, Jerusalem and Jerusalem alone fits every descriptor given in the Bible for "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" and Saudi Arabia is hardly the place where our Lord was crucified, friend. Seriously, follow the link that I provided and see for yourself before you spread any more error.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Btw, I was not taught this until reading the JesusIsTheChrist posts about it, last night (not taking him as an authority, but seeing in the Word after reading his posts).

I'm glad that my posts have helped you and even more glad that you recognize that I am NOT "an authority". Being aware of the same myself, I deliberately make scripture filled posts so that people can either reject or receive God's Word and not my own.

 

[ISeeYou]

While you are both here discussing something I have question on Arabia (or which Arabia) has to do with Hagar answering to Jerusalem that now is as Paul points out.

Can any give me a hand there, I stink at Geography and math equally so if any can throw me a bone that would be great.