Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[JesusistheChrist]

No, you are reading to much into scripture..............

That verse in Revelation 17:6 where it says martyr's of Jesus, does not mean those who killed Jesus.
Martyr's of Jesus means those who were killed in His name. This goes with everybody who was ever killed for following the Lord. Guess what Islam has done that more then any other religion.
And the bible says the Jews when the Lord comes again will recognize their fault in not believing Him to be the Messiah, and will then turn to believe in Him. Jerusalem still stands when the Lord comes back, and is not replaced with the new Jerusalem at this time. The New Jerusalem does not come tell after the Lords 1,000 year reign, and nobody is getting rich off of imports from Jerusalem. So there is another description that does not fit the bill of Jerusalem.

Did you even read my posts?

Apparently not or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.

I said that Revelation 17:6 speaks of the martyrs of Jesus and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing...although you conveniently left out THE PROPHETS, didn't you...and we both know why. You're in error, friend, in that your words fly directly in the face of Jesus Christ's Words and I'd therefore solemnly advise you to repent of your error before you have to give an account to Him for it one day.

I said that the New Jerusalem doesn't come until after the Millennial Reign and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing.

As far as the merchants who are getting rich is concerned, do yourself a favor and read the list of what they're selling to "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH". Here, I'll list it for you:

Revelation chapter 18

[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
[14] And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
[15] The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
[16] And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
[17] For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[18] And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[19] And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
[20] Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

If need be, then I'll gladly show you how everything on that list pertains to things, people or animals WHICH PERTAIN TO TEMPLE SACRIFICE/MAINTENANCE. Gee, I cannot imagine where the Bible says that the temple is normally located, can you? Mecca? Nah. Saudi Arabia? Nah. Rome? Nah. New York City (for those on the lunatic fringe)? Nah.

Jerusalem?

BINGO!

Furthermore, don't miss verse 20 where God avenges THE PROPHETS for what "MYSTERY, BABYLON" has done to them and then don't forget that Jesus said that IT CANNOT BE THAT A PROPHET PERISH OUT OF JERUSALEM (Luke 13:33)!

Sorry to shout, but some of you need a good wakeup call.

Anyhow, Israel's/Jerusalem's final affront against God prior to Christ's return will be to enter into a "peace treaty" with the Antichrist or with Papal Rome/the Vatican. Far from "all Israel being saved" (this pertains to "the Israel of God" and not to natural Israel), the vast majority of them will not be saved...even as scripture teaches from cover to cover.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Did you even read my posts?

Apparently not or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.

I said that Revelation 17:6 speaks of the martyrs of Jesus and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing...although you conveniently left out THE PROPHETS, didn't you...and we both know why. You're in error, friend, in that your words fly directly in the face of Jesus Christ's Words and I'd therefore solemnly advise you to repent of your error before you have to give an account to Him for it one day.

I said that the New Jerusalem doesn't come until after the Millennial Reign and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing.

As far as the merchants who are getting rich is concerned, do yourself a favor and read the list of what they're selling to "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH". Here, I'll list it for you:

Revelation chapter 18

[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
[14] And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
[15] The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
[16] And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
[17] For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[18] And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[19] And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
[20] Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

If need be, then I'll gladly show you how everything on that list pertains to things, people or animals WHICH PERTAIN TO TEMPLE SACRIFICE/MAINTENANCE. Gee, I cannot imagine where the Bible says that the temple is normally located, can you? Mecca? Nah. Saudi Arabia? Nah. Rome? Nah. New York City (for those on the lunatic fringe)? Nah.

Jerusalem?

BINGO!

Furthermore, don't miss verse 20 where God avenges THE PROPHETS for what "MYSTERY, BABYLON" has done to them and then don't forget that Jesus said that IT CANNOT BE THAT A PROPHET PERISH OUT OF JERUSALEM (Luke 13:33)!

Sorry to shout, but some of you need a good wakeup call.

Anyhow, Israel's/Jerusalem's final affront against God prior to Christ's return will be to enter into a "peace treaty" with the Antichrist or with Papal Rome/the Vatican. Far from "all Israel being saved" (this pertains to "the Israel of God" and not to natural Israel), the vast majority of them will not be saved...even as scripture teaches from cover to cover.

That chapter 18 does not refer to temple sacrifices, as the other nations of the world can not get rich off of temple sacrifices. So again your understanding is flawed again, as you are still reading to much into it because this is not referring to the temple or its sacrifices. Second Jerusalem is not a sea port, as it lies inland in Israel. However Mecca is a sea port city, which is another description of the mother of all Harlots.
Once again you are trying to interject things that are not there, like for one the bible says Babylon gets destroyed by the anitchrist. However the bible says that Jerusalem still stands when the Lord comes back, and that is where the Lord sits in His temple for the 1,000 years millennial reign. Then after all has been fulfilled does the New Jerusalem come down from heaven. It does not come with the Lord's return..............

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That chapter 18 does not refer to temple sacrifices, as the other nations of the world can not get rich off of temple sacrifices. So again your understanding is flawed again, as you are still reading to much into it because this is not referring to the temple or its sacrifices. Second Jerusalem is not a sea port, as it lies inland in Israel. However Mecca is a sea port city, which is another description of the mother of all Harlots.
Once again you are trying to interject things that are not there, like for one the bible says Babylon gets destroyed by the anitchrist. However the bible says that Jerusalem still stands when the Lord comes back, and that is where the Lord sits in His temple for the 1,000 years millennial reign. Then after all has been fulfilled does the New Jerusalem come down from heaven. It does not come with the Lord's return..............

I'll address your latest error later on this evening. I've been online since early this morning and I need to take care of some other things for a bit.

 

[ELECT]

[h=1]Revelation 17:18New International Version (NIV)[/h]18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”


A "woman" in prophecy = a church (Jeremiah 6:2)
A "harlot" woman, therefore = an unfaithful/apostate church.

 

[ELECT]

Did you even read my posts?

Apparently not or you wouldn't have posted what you just did.

I said that Revelation 17:6 speaks of the martyrs of Jesus and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing...although you conveniently left out THE PROPHETS, didn't you...and we both know why. You're in error, friend, in that your words fly directly in the face of Jesus Christ's Words and I'd therefore solemnly advise you to repent of your error before you have to give an account to Him for it one day.

I said that the New Jerusalem doesn't come until after the Millennial Reign and then you "corrected me" by saying the same exact thing.

As far as the merchants who are getting rich is concerned, do yourself a favor and read the list of what they're selling to "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH". Here, I'll list it for you:

Revelation chapter 18

[11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
[12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
[13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
[14] And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
[15] The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
[16] And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
[17] For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[18] And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[19] And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
[20] Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

If need be, then I'll gladly show you how everything on that list pertains to things, people or animals WHICH PERTAIN TO TEMPLE SACRIFICE/MAINTENANCE. Gee, I cannot imagine where the Bible says that the temple is normally located, can you? Mecca? Nah. Saudi Arabia? Nah. Rome? Nah. New York City (for those on the lunatic fringe)? Nah.

Jerusalem?

BINGO!

Furthermore, don't miss verse 20 where God avenges THE PROPHETS for what "MYSTERY, BABYLON" has done to them and then don't forget that Jesus said that IT CANNOT BE THAT A PROPHET PERISH OUT OF JERUSALEM (Luke 13:33)!

Sorry to shout, but some of you need a good wakeup call.

Anyhow, Israel's/Jerusalem's final affront against God prior to Christ's return will be to enter into a "peace treaty" with the Antichrist or with Papal Rome/the Vatican. Far from "all Israel being saved" (this pertains to "the Israel of God" and not to natural Israel), the vast majority of them will not be saved...even as scripture teaches from cover to cover.

Where does zah 14 fits in with this theory ?

 

[ELECT]

Exodus 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Duet 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

These I was looking at

Why are they in bondage and what has them in bondage ?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'll address your latest error later on this evening. I've been online since early this morning and I need to take care of some other things for a bit.

You can try all you like, but Saudi Arabia with their major sea port city Mecca has been buying all those same things from others that is mentioned above. Plus guess what else other countries are getting rich off of that come from Saudi Arabia. The most precious thing to most countries in the world today, OIL !!! Saudi Arabia has more oil exports then any other country, and the countries that get that oil from them are getting rich off of it.............

 

[kennethcadwell]

Where does zah 14 fits in with this theory ?

Some how some way he is getting that Babylon is the home of Jesus crucifixion, and the things purchased by Babylon in Revelation 18 is for the rebuilt temple. I guess he forgets that they pretty much already have everything that goes into the temple already made. And some how twist the martyr's of Jesus to those who killed Jesus, when this is just saying those who die in His name.

 

[ISeeYou]

Why are they in bondage and what has them in bondage ?

I dont have this question Elect, this would be yours, mine is what is this Arabia, if you can answer that great if not, please stop with these drive by questions on threads where I am asking one.

Its always nice to get an answer from a man and not just a bunch of irrelevant questions.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I dont have this question Elect, this would be yours, mine is what is this Arabia, if you can answer that great if not, please stop with these drive by questions on threads where I am asking one.

Its always nice to get an answer from a man and not just a bunch of irrelevant questions.

Arabia is of course where Mount Sinai sits, as it is in the upper northeast corner of Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia home to mother of all harlots, in its big capital sea port city Mecca (which the name stands for mother).
Saudi Arabia also has purchased lots of stuff from other countries, and other countries have gotten rich off this as well as the oil that they get from there.

 

[Sophia]

First the scriptures do not say what you mentioned, as ThomistColin told you what it actually said. And Revelation 11 does not say the great city is Jerusalem either. Revelation 11 has nothing to do with Babylon, as it is talking about the two prophets who stand outside the temple giving prophecy and are then killed by the antichrist.

The true scripture says about killing the prophets says, they were drunk off the blood of the saints and martyr's. And no other religion is more responsible then the death of the Jews then the Islamic religion that has its major home in Saudi Arabia. Babylon gets destroyed in the bible, and scriptures show Jerusalem protected all the way to when the Lord comes back so it can not be destroyed.

Let me make it simple for you.

Rather than looking at other sources to figure this out, lets look at how the Word itself defines who the harlot is.

1. The Woman is Babylon the great, and is an adulterous woman (she is not with her husband any longer)

17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

2. The Woman is the one who bore Christ

12:5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

3. The Woman sides with the beast, but the beast hates her, and persecutes her (think Hitler)

17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

also not that the last line says that she is the great city.

4. So which city is the "great city"?

11:8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically[b] is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.



Chapter 18 also clarifies that the woman, who is the great city, which is symbolically called Babylon Sodom Egypt.
She calls herself a queen, and the blood of the Prophets and Saints is upon her hands.

If Zionist continue their work (which they will, as it is proclaimed in the Word that they will) then Jerusalem will again soon be the economic center of the world.
The deception is in full swing.


21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,
and will be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters,
will be heard in you no more,
and a craftsman of any craft
will be found in you no more,
and the sound of the mill
will be heard in you no more,
23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”

 

[Sophia]

The true scripture says about killing the prophets says, they were drunk off the blood of the saints and martyr's. And no other religion is more responsible then the death of the Jews then the Islamic religion that has its major home in Saudi Arabia. Babylon gets destroyed in the bible, and scriptures show Jerusalem protected all the way to when the Lord comes back so it can not be destroyed.

You are looking for Jew killers, when you need to be looking at Saint killers and Prophet killers, and Messiah killers.
Did Mecca crucify Christ?!

When the Lord comes back, Jerusalem will be utterly destroyed, torn asunder,
and will be rebuilt.

 

[Sophia]

The prophecy is not yet fulfilled, Kenneth! When you see Jerusalem taking the place of (or gaining peace with) the Arabs as the economic center of the Middle East and the world, then these prophecies will be physically complete.

I am talking from a dispensational view, to relate to your understanding, whereas there is more going on than just the physical.
Islam is not the Harlot. How could Islam be a Harlot? She never was part of any covenant, and never the mother of promise. Islam is simply one of the offspring of Judaism! And she hates her mother, along with the other horns of the beast.

 

[ELECT]

Let me make it simple for you.

Rather than looking at other sources to figure this out, lets look at how the Word itself defines who the harlot is.

1. The Woman is Babylon the great, and is an adulterous woman (she is not with her husband any longer)

17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.”6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

2. The Woman is the one who bore Christ

12:5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

3. The Woman sides with the beast, but the beast hates her, and persecutes her (think Hitler)

17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire,17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

also not that the last line says that she is the great city.

4. So which city is the "great city"?

11:8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically[b] is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.



Chapter 18 also clarifies that the woman, who is the great city, which is symbolically called Babylon Sodom Egypt.
She calls herself a queen, and the blood of the Prophets and Saints is upon her hands.

If Zionist continue their work (which they will, as it is proclaimed in the Word that they will) then Jerusalem will again soon be the economic center of the world.
The deception is in full swing.


21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,
and will be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters,
will be heard in you no more,
and a craftsman of any craft
will be found in you no more,
and the sound of the mill
will be heard in you no more,
23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Revelation 17:18New International Version (NIV)

18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

​it is not the same woman
A "woman" in prophecy = a church Revelation 12
A "harlot" woman, therefore = an unfaithful/apostate church.

 

[ELECT]

Revelation 17:9New International Version (NIV)

9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

Rome: “The City of Seven Hills”

1. The Palatine
2. The Capitoline
3. The Aventine
4. The Caelian
5. The Esquiline
6. The Viminal
7. The Quirinal

“The historical site of Rome on the famous seven hills . . . was occupied as early as the Bronze Age.” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1990, Vol.10, p.162

 

[Sophia]

Revelation 17:18New International Version (NIV)

18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

​it is not the same woman
A "woman" in prophecy = a church Revelation 12
A "harlot" woman, therefore = an unfaithful/apostate church.

Why would you assume the two women found in the wilderness are different women?
She goes into the wilderness, gives birth, and comes out of the wilderness riding on the beast.

 

[ELECT]

Why would you assume the two women found in the wilderness are different women?
She goes into the wilderness, gives birth, and comes out of the wilderness riding on the beast.

Are you saying a harlot brought fort Christ ?

 

[Sophia]

Revelation 17:9New International Version (NIV)

9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

Rome: “The City of Seven Hills”

1. The Palatine
2. The Capitoline
3. The Aventine
4. The Caelian
5. The Esquiline
6. The Viminal
7. The Quirinal

“The historical site of Rome on the famous seven hills . . . was occupied as early as the Bronze Age.” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1990, Vol.10, p.162

How many hills does Jerusalem sit on? Look it up.
Seven.

 

[Sophia]

Are you saying a harlot brought fort Christ ?

Yes, she did.
Was Jesus not born of the Jews? We're the Jews not an "adulterous people"?
Are they still not an adulterous people?

Unless they come to Christ, they remain in their adulterous ways, and blaspheme God when they twist His Word in their synagogues.

 

[ELECT]

You are looking for Jew killers, when you need to be looking at Saint killers and Prophet killers, and Messiah killers.
Did Mecca crucify Christ?!

When the Lord comes back, Jerusalem will be utterly destroyed, torn asunder,
and will be rebuilt.

Was God talking to Israel or Sodom and Gommarah ?
[h=1]Isaiah 1 King James Version (KJV)[/h]1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.