Will you listen to what God has to say about OSAS? Just scriptures?

[notuptome]

Dcon, my friend, I disagree. It has EVERYTHING to do with Biblical salvation.

Biblical salvation is by grace. God imputes to me the finished work of Christ. God has done all that can be done and that I could never do, it is God that has saved me.

This is the great separation between Christianity and the rest of the worlds religions. God has done it all for the Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VioletReigns]

You come up with some really inane things. How does on un-hear? Can you un-ring a bell? Jehovah God has declared that His word does not return to Him void but always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it.

The Holy Spirit acting through grace and upon the word of God creates the faith necessary for a man to be convicted of his sin, of Christ's righteousness, and Gods judgment on sin. When you have been confronted by God through the power of His Holy Spirit you will never be the same for the experience. Paul found that out on the road to Emmaus.

Time to check what you got. If you are not the new creature God said you would be then you have an issue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This post is like THE most beautifully, gloriously resounding words of wisdom and knowledge concerning eternal salvation that one could ever hear testified. All praise and honor and thanks to the Lord Jesus for such an amazing gift!!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

The hearing the Word is not the problem, as people make it out to be in some cases.
The problem is the doing part, because many will hear but few will actually turn around and do what they heard. It is about rather you live out the words of the Lord in your life or not. A hearer only does not receive salvation, for they are deceived. Only one who is a hearer and doer both will receive salvation, as one who continues to both hear and do will never lose what they have. The one who does not do has already been deceived and is lost....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The hearing the Word is not the problem, as people make it out to be in some cases.
The problem is the doing part, because many will hear but few will actually turn around and do what they heard. It is about rather you live out the words of the Lord in your life or not. A hearer only does not receive salvation, for they are deceived. Only one who is a hearer and doer both will receive salvation, as one who continues to both hear and do will never lose what they have. The one who does not do has already been deceived and is lost....

no, I disagree, this is not the problem.

The problem is that some say if you are a hearer and not an "all the way" or "part way" or "whatever way" doer. then you can be saved, and lose your salvation.

the problem is no one can say what the cut off line between being an actual doer, and a partial doer (not enough to be saved) or "whatever way" doer, which causes you to lose salvation.

thus we are again stuck to self. Am I good enough? Am I not good enough.. If not. how much more good do I need to do to assure I will get to heaven.

this is legalism, Self righteousnessism, confusion, and not the good news Jesus cam to proclaim.

In reality, If I get saved, then hear the word that I should be baptized. and DO IT. Then I am a doer of the word. If I then hear that I should love others, and I do it (even if not perfect) I am a doer of the word. If I hear to do something and do it, I am a doer. no matter how well I do it, as long as I do it, and keep trying to do it.

The only one who is a hearer of the one, and NOT a doer. is one who never does anything which he hears he should do. They do not do it, because they have not been born again, Not given Gods spirit to give them the power to do those things, they have yet to repent. they are still dead in their sin.

No loss of salvation. No question of salvation. No salvation period.

 

[SeaBass]

You come up with some really inane things. How does on un-hear? Can you un-ring a bell? Jehovah God has declared that His word does not return to Him void but always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it.

The Holy Spirit acting through grace and upon the word of God creates the faith necessary for a man to be convicted of his sin, of Christ's righteousness, and Gods judgment on sin. When you have been confronted by God through the power of His Holy Spirit you will never be the same for the experience. Paul found that out on the road to Emmaus.

Time to check what you got. If you are not the new creature God said you would be then you have an issue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

One does not unhear but quits hearing, stops listening.

Who can be saved WITHOUT a present tense hearing and believing?

 

[john832]

Biblical salvation is by grace. God imputes to me the finished work of Christ. God has done all that can be done and that I could never do, it is God that has saved me.

This is the great separation between Christianity and the rest of the worlds religions. God has done it all for the Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hmmm, strange but that is not what scripture says...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

God requires repentance. He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One does not unhear but quits hearing, stops listening.

Who can be saved WITHOUT a present tense hearing and believing?

who ignores everything God says, and was ever saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hmmm, strange but that is not what scripture says...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

God requires repentance. He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

so we are under law not grace?

If obedience is required to be saved, it is of law.

if obedience is a result of being saved, it is of grace.

you can;t have it both ways.

 

[john832]

Hmmm, strange but that is not what scripture says...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

God requires repentance. He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

so we are under law not grace?

If obedience is required to be saved, it is of law.

if obedience is a result of being saved, it is of grace.

you can;t have it both ways.

Luke wrote it, not me. Your beef is with him.

 

[notuptome]

One does not unhear but quits hearing, stops listening.

Who can be saved WITHOUT a present tense hearing and believing?

The sheep do hear His voice. Can't say the same for the goats.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Hmmm, strange but that is not what scripture says...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

God requires repentance. He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

You are trying to force a contradiction where none exists. It is all about obedience to Gods word. Jesus said to believe on Him and on the Father Who sent Him.

Jesus cited the law and the prophets to highlight the need of Gods grace. Sin creates in us a need that only God can meet.

Repentance is a direct result of coming face to face with sin, righteousness and judgment. Paul did not need to be told to repent on the road to Emmaus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hizikyah]

No contradiction, I I don't believe John832 meant there was contradiction, but rather;

STEP 1:

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; God requires repentance.

STEP 2:

He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Because he said:

also requires

JMO, and if that is what you meant John832, I agree!

 

[john832]

No contradiction, I I don't believe John832 meant there was contradiction, but rather;

STEP 1: Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; God requires repentance.[/COLOR]



STEP 2:He also requires obedience...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Those are the dirty words that are such a problem.

 

[Hizikyah]

Those are the dirty words that are such a problem.

IMO that is because of the "mystery of iniquity"

2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."

Paul I think explained it well here;

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

but men have crept in;

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

 

[notuptome]

We hear the word of God. We hear that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves. We hear that Christ died for us and paid the penalty for our sin. We hear that Christ will forgive us our sins and we will receive eternal life instead of eternal condemnation. We obey when we ask Christ to save us and believe that the Father imputes to us the righteousness that was Christ's for our own.

We repent when we cease to believe we can save ourselves and admit that we justly deserve eternal condemnation. Repentance is the direct result of Gods grace saving us from our sins. Please God take me off the path of destruction and place me upon the path of righteousness in Christ. I am lifted up from the mire and set me upon the Rock Who is Christ. I did not lift myself up nor could I have done so even if I tried.

Repentance and obedience are not "dirty words" but often misused and misunderstood in relation to salvation by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

no, I disagree, this is not the problem.

The problem is that some say if you are a hearer and not an "all the way" or "part way" or "whatever way" doer. then you can be saved, and lose your salvation.

the problem is no one can say what the cut off line between being an actual doer, and a partial doer (not enough to be saved) or "whatever way" doer, which causes you to lose salvation.

thus we are again stuck to self. Am I good enough? Am I not good enough.. If not. how much more good do I need to do to assure I will get to heaven.

this is legalism, Self righteousnessism, confusion, and not the good news Jesus cam to proclaim.

In reality, If I get saved, then hear the word that I should be baptized. and DO IT. Then I am a doer of the word. If I then hear that I should love others, and I do it (even if not perfect) I am a doer of the word. If I hear to do something and do it, I am a doer. no matter how well I do it, as long as I do it, and keep trying to do it.

The only one who is a hearer of the one, and NOT a doer. is one who never does anything which he hears he should do. They do not do it, because they have not been born again, Not given Gods spirit to give them the power to do those things, they have yet to repent. they are still dead in their sin.

No loss of salvation. No question of salvation. No salvation period.

You say the only one who never had salvation to begin with is the one who never did anything they heard to do to begin with.

Then explain this to me; Why did Jesus mention a group that did hear and did do for a time being what they heard, and then still fell away do to a hardship in their life and ended up with no salvation ???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke wrote it, not me. Your beef is with him.

Luke did not say what you think he said. He also did not contradict the rest of scripture.

Again, Are we under law or Grace?

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke did not say what you think he said. He also did not contradict the rest of scripture.

Again, Are we under law or Grace?

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

 

[john832]

Luke did not say what you think he said. He also did not contradict the rest of scripture.

Again, Are we under law or Grace?

Oh, OK, it doesn't really mean what it says. I get it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No contradiction, I I don't believe John832 meant there was contradiction, but rather;

STEP 1:



STEP 2:



Because he said:



JMO, and if that is what you meant John832, I agree!

I must disagree. because of the word requires.

when requires enters the equation. we teach law. not grace.

the law requires obedience. Grace requires one to be guilty of the law.