What was abolished?

[Grandpa]

Rest from the ways of the world or Rest from the ways of the Father?

Rest from our work, labour, at the law. You really don't see it?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Maybe this will help...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Romans 8:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Hizikyah]

Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

Rest from our work, labour, at the law. You really don't see it?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

So anyhting I want to ignore I call "works" or "justified by works" The Fruits of the Spirit are what the Law explains... I have yet to meet a single person who knows what is written without reading.... How did you come to know the Words of Messiah? In blank mind meditation? Or reading and praying, and His guidance?

Maybe this will help...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Romans 8:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

WHY STOP AT VERSE 4?

Romans 8:2-4

Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

He has removed the death penalty for those who are in Messiah, certainly this is a mercy beyond what I or any human actually deserves.

Psalm 37:39, "The salvation of the righteous is from Yahweh! He is our strength in the time of trouble!"

Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your Salvation always say: May Yahweh be magnified!"

Maybe this will help...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all* the Law and the Prophets."

*all is word #G3650 - holos
Strong's Concordance
holos: whole, complete
Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: holos
Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os)
Short Definition: all, the whole, entire
Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) all, whole, completely

Maybe this will help...

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Galatians 3:13,(KJV) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Revelation 12:17
New International Version
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

New Living Translation
And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus.

English Standard Version
Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

It is written so clearly, if you have and issue with this, your issue is not with me but with what is written...

Can you please tell me how you view Revelation 12:17 and Romans 3:31?

This may clear up a lot of our conceived disagreement? Possibly?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

JESUS made the law honorable(truth from the inward man and not doing the law insincerely)

 

[Hizikyah]

JESUS made the law honorable(truth from the inward man and not doing the law insincerely)

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yahshua/Jesus says:

Mattithyah 5:21-30, "You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yahshua/Jesus says:

Mattithyah 5:21-30, "You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding ...no man could fulfill the law ,only JESUS was able to fulfill it and after JESUS fulfilled it and before he went back to heaven he graced it to man and we have access to this grace through faith.

 

[Hizikyah]

Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding ...no man could fulfill the law ,only JESUS was able to fulfill it and after JESUS fulfilled it and before he went back to heaven he graced it to man and we have access to this grace through faith.

Judgement has not yet been fulfilled by Him,

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

other than that; I agree, AND IM NOT SAYING YOU, but in a general world sense... "grace through faith" has become this to many;

Jude 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah"

For if we make up what Laws are binding and what Laws are not based on what we think and not what Scripture says or we say "my heart doesn't condemn me, it's ok" Are we choosing our path or His?

2 Peter 3:3-14, "First, you must understand this: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, And saying: Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things have remained just as they were from the beginning o creation. But they deliberately forget this: that long ago the heavens came into existence by the plan of Yahweh, and an earth also out of water and through water, having been set together by the plan of Yahweh. By Yahweh's plan also, the world then existing was flooded with water, and destroyed. By the same plan, the heavens and the earth which now exist are reserved for fire, being kept in store until the day of judgment, for destruction of unrighteous men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing: that with Yahweh, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Yahweh is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of Yahweh will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth, and the works that are in it, will be burned up. Since all these things will then be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and righteousness? You must look for and earnestly long for the day of Yahweh, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."

Certifiably NO man is sinless and NO man can enter in on their own merits, for Salvation is a undeserved pardon of Yah.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

But rejecting His Instructions IMO, is dangerous territory;

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Romans 12:1-2, "Therefore, I appeal to you, brothers, by the mercies of Yahweh, that You present your bodies as living sacrifices, holy, acceptable to Yahweh, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to the pattern of this world; but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may be able to test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of Yahweh."

 

[psychomom]

hizi, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us what Rom 3:31 means to you?

what, indeed, does it mean to say 'we uphold (or establish) the Law' ?

 

[Hizikyah]

hizi, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us what Rom 3:31 means to you?

what, indeed, does it mean to say 'we uphold (or establish) the Law' ?

I gladly will*, but let me post a few verse than I will explain how I feel;

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

New International Version
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

New American Standard Bible
"Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

King James Bible
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

*I am not perfect but I love His ways, the ways of the world havecaused me nothing but pain an emptiness, His ways bring me joy, a joy I have never got anyplace else besides in Him... Again I don;t walk perfectly at all times, but when I am in unity with Him there is true joy.

Scripture can better explain than I can with my own words:

Romans 12:1-2, "Therefore, I appeal to you, brothers, by the mercies of Yahweh, that You present your bodies as living sacrifices, holy, acceptable to Yahweh, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to the pattern of this world; but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may be able to test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of Yahweh."

Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"

Hebrews 12:12-17, "Therefore, strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And follow the straight paths made for your feet, so that the lame may not be turned out of the way, but rather may be healed. Follow peace with all men; and holiness, without which no one will see Yahweh: Searching diligently, so that no one falls short of the honor of Yahweh; so that no root of bitterness grows up to cause trouble--for because of this, many are defiled; So that there is no a, fornicator nor profane person, like Esau, Who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no way for repentance, though with tears sought it out."

Hebrews 12:28-29, "Therefore, since we are receiving a Kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have and hold humility, by which we may serve Yahweh acceptably with reverence and awe: For our Father is a consuming fire."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Judgement has not yet been fulfilled by Him,

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

other than that; I agree, AND IM NOT SAYING YOU, but in a general world sense... "grace through faith" has become this to many;

Jude 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah"

For if we make up what Laws are binding and what Laws are not based on what we think and not what Scripture says or we say "my heart doesn't condemn me, it's ok" Are we choosing our path or His?

2 Peter 3:3-14, "First, you must understand this: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, And saying: Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things have remained just as they were from the beginning o creation. But they deliberately forget this: that long ago the heavens came into existence by the plan of Yahweh, and an earth also out of water and through water, having been set together by the plan of Yahweh. By Yahweh's plan also, the world then existing was flooded with water, and destroyed. By the same plan, the heavens and the earth which now exist are reserved for fire, being kept in store until the day of judgment, for destruction of unrighteous men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing: that with Yahweh, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Yahweh is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of Yahweh will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth, and the works that are in it, will be burned up. Since all these things will then be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and righteousness? You must look for and earnestly long for the day of Yahweh, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."

Certifiably NO man is sinless and NO man can enter in on their own merits, for Salvation is a undeserved pardon of Yah.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

But rejecting His Instructions IMO, is dangerous territory;

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Romans 12:1-2, "Therefore, I appeal to you, brothers, by the mercies of Yahweh, that You present your bodies as living sacrifices, holy, acceptable to Yahweh, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to the pattern of this world; but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may be able to test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of Yahweh."

You can´t perfect the spirit by doing works to get GOD to recognize your works you have to be born again first.

 

[Hizikyah]

You can´t perfect the spirit by doing works to get GOD to recognize your works you have to be born again first.

That seems to be the common accusation against ANYONE will will quote;

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

EVEN WHEN THEY SAID; (right before)

Certifiably NO man is sinless and NO man can enter in on their own merits, for Salvation is a undeserved pardon of Yah.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

What I think happens a lot is anyone will will quote a verse that calls for obedience is called "justified by works"...

I personally think this is peoples flesh fighting against Scripture, so they "kill the messenger" and "throw the baby out with the bath water"

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept under the law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[psychomom]

okay...i'll dive in here, if you'll all pardon me.

Hiz, the way i see what God is saying in Rom 3:31...what He means by upholding the Law
is that we agree with its demand for absolute perfection.
we never lower the bar God set to the point of our own performance.
this is a danger for each and every one of us, every single day.
we have a terrible tendency to focus on what we're doing right, which leads to self righteousness.
or we focus on what we're doing wrong, which leads to inappropriate self abasement.

the truth is...we shouldn't be focusing on ourselves. at all.
in other words, the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
the focus of our faith is the life of Christ.

that's why we fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.
i think this is what Grandpa is saying to you...He who began this good work in you
will be faithful to complete it! (Good News, everyone!)
we can stop trying to please God in a, oh, no, what will happen if i do, kinda way.
Jesus did all the pleasing we will ever need for us...and we couldn't do it for ourselves, anyway.

Hiz..i understand you love the Lord. i love that about you.
i know you know you've been justified by our merciful Savior.
and now, you can r-e-s-t. rest in the perfection of Jesus.
that's why through the Law we died to the Law.
cease striving and know He is God. faithful and ever living to plead our case.
He's got you. He's given you His fruit...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, self control. we walk more deeply in those things as we cling to (abide in) Jesus.

against those things, there is no law.

does that make sense? ♥

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept under the law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

" the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

John 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to Yahweh, all you lands. Serve Yahweh with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that Yahweh is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For Yahweh is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"

Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away."

Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

Yahchanan (John) 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

Our High Priest is in the Heavens

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
3331 - metathesis transformation

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My (Yahshua/Jesus) teachings will not pass away."

Our High Priest is in the Heavens, after the order of Melchizedek

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
3331 - metathesis transformation,

Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise 3331 - (metathesis transformation) after the order of Melchizedek

He takes care of ALL PRIESTLY duties.

Our High Priest is in the Heavens

Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
3331 - metathesis transformation
1 Timothy 2:5 (ESV)


[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,



1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

after the order of Melchizedek

3331 - metathesis transformation

He takes care of ALL "PRIESTLY" "Melchizedek" duties

For it was prophesied long ago;

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his Throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[Kerry]

" the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,"

Did you graduate or still stuck on yourself?

 

[Hizikyah]

okay...i'll dive in here, if you'll all pardon me.

Hiz, the way i see what God is saying in Rom 3:31...what He means by upholding the Law
is that we agree with its demand for absolute perfection.
we never lower the bar God set to the point of our own performance.
this is a danger for each and every one of us, every single day.
we have a terrible tendency to focus on what we're doing right, which leads to self righteousness.
or we focus on what we're doing wrong, which leads to inappropriate self abasement.

the truth is...we shouldn't be focusing on ourselves. at all.
in other words, the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
the focus of our faith is the life of Christ.

that's why we fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.
i think this is what Grandpa is saying to you...He who began this good work in you
will be faithful to complete it! (Good News, everyone!)
we can stop trying to please God in a, oh, no, what will happen if i do, kinda way.
Jesus did all the pleasing we will ever need for us...and we couldn't do it for ourselves, anyway.

Hiz..i understand you love the Lord. i love that about you.
i know you know you've been justified by our merciful Savior.
and now, you can r-e-s-t. rest in the perfection of Jesus.
that's why through the Law we died to the Law.
cease striving and know He is God. faithful and ever living to plead our case.
He's got you. He's given you His fruit...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, self control. we walk more deeply in those things as we cling to (abide in) Jesus.

against those things, there is no law.

does that make sense? ♥

It does make sense; There is "no Law against" the fruits of the Spirit..... because they are Lawful... as in "legal"... aka not a sin. For the Spirit that leads one to "produce fruit" speaks the same thing as the Law.

I agree with much of what you said, but you misuse a Scripture; Im not attacking you, if I am wrong let us deal in Scripture to find truth? Paul can be confusing, but if we look at all of what he wrote it's much less confusing;

through the Law we died to the Law.

What "law" are we dead to?

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous*.

13 Did that which is *righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man*;

23 But I saw another law* at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my *mind, and bringing me into captivity of the *law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

1 Yahchanan (John) 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

How is seeking to do His will self focus? That is being dead to my will and alive to His...

 

[psychomom]

seeking to do God's will is good! we all seek it.

but Christian growth doesn't happen by working hard to get something you don't have.
you've already been given everything in Christ!
Christian growth (sanctification) comes by working hard to live in the reality
of what we have been given.

the hard work of Christian growth is learning more fully Christ's work on our behalf
and then living in a more vital awareness of it every day.

not behaving better, but believing better.
sanctification is not by works, but by a continuous reorenting ourselves to our justification.

sin happens when we are in the midst of unbelief.
when we sin, in that moment, we fail to believe God in Christ has given us everything.
if i am impatient with someone, i am in a crisis of unbelief about the patience God gave me.
if i am angry, i am failing to believe He will shed His own love abroad in my heart.

through the Law i died to the Law (Gal 2:19)
i saw the Law, with all its righteous and holy demands, and it slew me so i might live for God.
(it's nomos...no gettin' around it)
i have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer i who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which i now live in the flesh i live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

about Rom 7:13, and then i'll hush.
Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

yes, my sin effected my death through the Law. but i'm dead...dead to sin and dead to the Law.
that's just a Biblical fact, and as i reckon myself (live in that reality) dead to them,
i live to God.

it's not rocket surgery.
it's the Gospel. ♥

 

[Hizikyah]

Christian growth doesn't happen by working hard to get something you don't have.
you've already been given everything in Christ!

Where did I say anything that warranted; "working hard to get something you don't have"

I posted Scripture, and you say that? Why? I don't get it.

I said:

For the Spirit that leads one to "produce fruit" speaks the same thing as the Law.

23 But I saw another law* at work in the members of my body,waging war against the Law in my *mind, and bringing me into captivity of the *law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

I am not dead to this;

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[psychomom]

Where did I say anything that warranted; "working hard to get something you don't have"

I posted Scripture, and you say that? Why? I don't get it.

I said:



23 But I saw another law* at work in the members of my body,waging war against the Law in my *mind, and bringing me into captivity of the *law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

I am not dead to this;

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

i am sorry...didn't mean to offend you...

the scripture you post, Hiz...it causes me to think you are focused on what we must do.
if i am getting that wrong, you are right to correct me.

 

[Hizikyah]

i am sorry...didn't mean to offend you...

the scripture you post, Hiz...it causes me to think you are focused on what we must do.
if i am getting that wrong, you are right to correct me.

No Im not offended, I was asking, I speak openly, for how can we ever know what we are saying if we dont openly say it?

I was honestly wondering why you thought that, sincerely.

So you said: "the scripture you post, Hiz...it causes me to think you are focused on what we must do. if i am getting that wrong"

By all means my focus is or I want it to be on what He wants of me, not of my power but of His guidance, after all how can I follow His guidance if He is not leading in His way and me following?

sheep (follows) Shepherd

I think this is an odd thing, Scripture is posted and peiople always say "justifid by works" or some variation... I fell like we as a people have stopped at "He's dead" and not "He's risen! and my King!"

Is it evil or wrong in ANY way to seek to do the will of Yah (under His guidance*)?

*needed disclaimer

 

[Hizikyah]

I just want to say IMO;

Seeking to do His will is what every one who accepts the Sacrifice of Messiah should do. IMO

"Justified by works" is thinking ones own walk can get them to the kingdom, this is critical error.

There is a huge difference.

For no man will enter in without Yahshua aka the Salvation of Yahweh.

For what sheep is of the herd that does not follow the Shepherd?

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."