Music in Church?

[SeaBass]

well duh! That's why most worship music is Gods own words and is apparently fine as long as there are no instruments other than a lute and an organ and no minor 3rd is used in the arrangement.

Christians go by the NT which says sing to worship.

 

[SeaBass]

of course Paul is not saying that we are obligated to keep the law.
but you are literally saying it is evil to do the things contained in the law, recognizing the Psalms as part of them - and Paul is not saying that doing the things that were commanded is sin.


i am not saying making praise to God on an instrument of ten strings is a commandment for you or for me or for anyone else. no one is saying we are commanded to make a joyful noise to Him by any instrument.
i am saying that it permitted, and that forbidding it is a nonsense human teaching for the appearance of godliness. if it offends your conscience, by all means, do not do it! but where do you have the right to judge another who offers praise in thankfulness and joy?

what i want to know from you is how you can call wicked what the law approves as good?

[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
(Romans 7:13)

this is exactly what you are preaching - that what is good is become death to me. don't you see that? would you forbid giving a tithe? is it a sin not to eat pork?

Paul did not say keeping the law was not sinful. Again, Paul told them they were "dead to the law" Rom 7:4 and they had been delivered/released/discharged from the law, Rom 7:6. Paul IS saying for Christians to keep the OT law IS SINFUL.

 

[SeaBass]

and your position is that the Psalms are not true?


It is good to praise the Lord
and make music to your name, O Most High,
proclaiming your love in the morning
and your faithfulness at night,
to the music of the ten-stringed lyre
and the melody of the harp.
For you make me glad by your deeds, Lord;
I sing for joy at what your hands have done.
(Psalm 92:1-4)

You have no valid argument when you run the OT to find justification for using IM. Again Paul said is was sinful, spiritual adultery for a Christian to try and keep both Christ's NT and Moses OT law at the same time. Christ's death took the OT law out of the way making the Jews dead to that law so they would be free to marry Christ (become Christians)

 

[SeaBass]

the difference here is that there is abundant justification in God's word for using music to worship Him, but the justification for forbidding it rests on human feelings and ideas, not on God's word. your whole argument rests on silence - because in the new testament scriptures it is never specifically commanded of us, you fill in that it is commanded not to do these things, using human ideas and feelings.
when the scripture says it is good to make music to the Lord and never says it is not, and you say it is evil in every case, how can you think you are arguing from God's word, and not human feelings and ideas?

if we are only to do what is specifically said in the new testament, and completely ignore the old, please show me where it is specifically and literally written that i must wear pants.

please hurry, because i have a home group meeting to leave for in 45min, and if i need to go naked in order not to offend the Lord by taking liberty in my freedom, i need time to undress.

1) if you're going to keep the OT law, Paul said you have an obligation to keep the WHOLE law, Gal 5 so you cannot just cherry pick out of that law what you like and ignore what you do not like. You therefore have an obligation to keep all 600+ laws FLAWLESSLY else you are sinning and condemned by OT law according to its standards.

2) from the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6 it is SINFUL for a Christian to try and keep Christ's NT gospel AND the law of Moses, it's spiritual adultery against Christ to Whom the Christian is married .

3) any argument made out of the OT to use IM always fails.

 

[Sirk]

1) if you're going to keep the OT law, Paul said you have an obligation to keep the WHOLE law, Gal 5 so you cannot just cherry pick out of that law what you like and ignore what you do not like. You therefore have an obligation to keep all 600+ laws FLAWLESSLY else you are sinning and condemned by OT law according to its standards.

2) from the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6 it is SINFUL for a Christian to try and keep Christ's NT gospel AND the law of Moses, it's spiritual adultery against Christ to Whom the Christian is married .

3) any argument made out of the OT to use IM always fails.

Says the guy spends all his time either keeping the law or making up law out of thin blue air. What do you make of Jesus' words...all the OT law hangs on...love the Lord your God with all your heart..............

 

[SeaBass]

Says the guy spends all his time either keeping the law or making up law out of thin blue air. What do you make of Jesus' words...all the OT law hangs on...love the Lord your God with all your heart..............

Not me but it's Paul who says such in Rom 7:1-7 and the Galatian epistle.

 

[Ukorin]

It is not funny seeing a legalist accusing others of placing themselves under the Law. Ironic, but not humorous.
Prayer is needed.

 

[Sirk]

No, says Paul in Rom 7:1-7 and the Galatian epistle.

What do you make of Jesus' words?

 

[SeaBass]

It is not funny seeing a legalist accusing others of placing themselves under the Law. Ironic, but not humorous.
Prayer is needed.

Legalism is a term used by Humanists to try and label those who do their best to obey Christ's NT law.

The bible calls those who obey RIGHTEOUS not legalists.

 

[SeaBass]

What do you make of Jesus' words?

What Paul said in the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6 were Jesus' words that were revealed to him, Gal 1:12.

 

[Sirk]

What Paul said in the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6 were Jesus' words that were revealed to him, Gal 1:12.

You prove nothing except your selfish ambition to make up rules that don't exist.

 

[SeaBass]

You prove nothing except your selfish ambition to make up rules that don't exist.

2) Are you rejecting what Paul said in the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6?

2) where are Christian ever command to play IM in worship to God?

 

[Sirk]

2) Are you rejecting what Paul said in the Galatian epistle and Rom 7:1-6?

2) where are Christian ever command to play IM in worship to God?

The early church was made up mostly of converted jews who likely worshipped God in the much the same way they did (with musical instruments and everything) when they were practicing Jews. There is no command to worship God except with your body as a living sacrifice and with all your heart mind soul and strength. The point is you (seabass) can worship God by clanging two frozen cowpies together and as long as your heart is inclined to worship God in spirit and truth it matters not the instrument you choose.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

It is amazing how Christians will agrue over foolishness. In the Sacred Word Israel always sung, dance, worship, and praise with instruments in songs to ABBA. Maybe people jealous like King David's wife because he had the FREEDOM to worship ABBA in spiritual truth with a dance.

[h=1]2 Samuel 6 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h]12 It was reported to King David: “The Lord has blessed Obed-edom’s family and all that belongs to him because of the ark of God.” So David went and had the ark of God brought up from Obed-edom’s house to the city of David with rejoicing. 13 When those carrying the ark of the Lord advanced six steps, he sacrificed an ox and a fattened calf. 14 David was dancing[f] with all his might before the Lord wearing a linen ephod. 15 He and the whole house of Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of the ram’s horn.16 As the ark of the Lord was entering the city of David, Saul’s daughter Michal looked down from the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart.

[h=3]Psalm 150[/h][h=3]Praise the Lord[/h]1 Hallelujah!
Praise God in His sanctuary.
Praise Him in His mighty heavens.
2 Praise Him for His powerful acts;
praise Him for His abundant greatness.

3 Praise Him with trumpet blast;
praise Him with harp and lyre.
4 Praise Him with tambourine and dance;
praise Him with flute and strings.
5 Praise Him with resounding cymbals;
praise Him with clashing cymbals.

6 Let everything that breathes praise the Lord.
Hallelujah!


[h=1]Job 21 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h]They let their little ones run around like lambs;
their children skip about,
12 singing to the tambourine and lyre
and rejoicing at the sound of the flute.
13


I am thankful I am FREE to worship, dance, shout, praise with thanksgiving within my heart to ABBA with musical instruments and songs. With a loud voice I will give you praise and glory.
Hallelujah Hallelujah!!! JESUS has set me free from man's dead religion of bondage in the Holy Spirit.

Maybe folks are not reading their Bibles(scriptures) because the Scared Word speaks of instruments.

 

[SeaBass]

Says the guy spends all his time either keeping the law or making up law out of thin blue air. What do you make of Jesus' words...all the OT law hangs on...love the Lord your God with all your heart..............

How does one love God?

Jn 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Jn 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Jn 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." According to some here, if one loves God he is also a legalist.

 

[Sirk]

How does one love God?

Jn 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Jn 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Jn 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." According to some here, if one loves God he is also a legalist.

Jesus gave only two commandments.

 

[SeaBass]

The early church was made up mostly of converted jews who likely worshipped God in the much the same way they did (with musical instruments and everything) when they were practicing Jews. There is no command to worship God except with your body as a living sacrifice and with all your heart mind soul and strength. The point is you (seabass) can worship God by clanging two frozen cowpies together and as long as your heart is inclined to worship God in spirit and truth it matters not the instrument you choose.

No, Paul in writing to the Jews at Rome told them they were "dead to the law" and had been released/discharged from that law in order for them to be Christians/married to Christ, Rom 7:4,6


Paul also said "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
" Gal 5:6 and "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." 1 Cor 7:19. When Paul says circumcision is nothing, avails nothing he is saying keeping the OT is nothing, avails nothing.

From the Galatian epistles, Christians that left the NT gospel and returned to keeping the OT law thinking they could be justified by that OT law, they:
1) have left the gospel unto a false gospel Gal 1:6,7
2) quit obeying the truth Gal 3:1; Gal 5:7
3) making Christ's death in vain, Gal 2L21
4) fallen from grace; Gal 5:4

Gal 5:1 Christians are told "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
Trying to go back to the OT law to jusitfy the use of IM is entangling one's self in that yoke of bondage.

 

[SeaBass]

It is amazing how Christians will agrue over foolishness. In the Sacred Word Israel always sung, dance, worship, and praise with instruments in songs to ABBA. Maybe people jealous like King David's wife because he had the FREEDOM to worship ABBA in spiritual truth with a dance.

2 Samuel 6 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

12 It was reported to King David: “The Lord has blessed Obed-edom’s family and all that belongs to him because of the ark of God.” So David went and had the ark of God brought up from Obed-edom’s house to the city of David with rejoicing. 13 When those carrying the ark of the Lord advanced six steps, he sacrificed an ox and a fattened calf. 14 David was dancing[f] with all his might before the Lord wearing a linen ephod. 15 He and the whole house of Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of the ram’s horn.16 As the ark of the Lord was entering the city of David, Saul’s daughter Michal looked down from the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart.

Psalm 150

Praise the Lord

1 Hallelujah!
Praise God in His sanctuary.
Praise Him in His mighty heavens.
2 Praise Him for His powerful acts;
praise Him for His abundant greatness.

3 Praise Him with trumpet blast;
praise Him with harp and lyre.
4 Praise Him with tambourine and dance;
praise Him with flute and strings.
5 Praise Him with resounding cymbals;
praise Him with clashing cymbals.

6 Let everything that breathes praise the Lord.
Hallelujah!


Job 21 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

They let their little ones run around like lambs;
their children skip about,
12 singing to the tambourine and lyre
and rejoicing at the sound of the flute.
13


I am thankful I am FREE to worship, dance, shout, praise with thanksgiving within my heart to ABBA with musical instruments and songs. With a loud voice I will give you praise and glory.
Hallelujah Hallelujah!!! JESUS has set me free from man's dead religion of bondage in the Holy Spirit.

Maybe folks are not reading their Bibles(scriptures) because the Scared Word speaks of instruments.

You appeal to the OT law to justify the use of IM. You therefore have an obligation to keep ALL that OT law. Are you keeping all the OT law FLAWLESSLY else that law condemns you.

Rom 7:1-7 Paul said it is spiritual adultery for a Christian to try and keep Moses law and Christ's law at the same time.

God commanded Christians to sing. Why is it 'foolishness' to debate what God has commanded?

 

[Ukorin]

Legalism is a term used by Humanists to try and label those who do their best to obey Christ's NT law.

The bible calls those who obey RIGHTEOUS not legalists.

No, legalism is a term used to describe cults who proclaim salvation by works.

You do not have a grasp on NT law, proven by your lack of understanding of authorization and freedom in Christ.
The New Testement is not a Halakhah.

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus gave only two commandments.

No. Mk 1:15 for starters Jesus commanded the Jews to repent and believe the gospel.