Music in Church?

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K

Kaycie

Guest
Col 3:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

I believe 'whatever you do' also includes music.
I agree, however, there are certain things that are ok to do in your home that are not ok in the worship assembly. Aside from what, you must also consider where, when, and how. The bible says there's an appropriate time for everything. And what is included in the worship assembly has to be by Christ's authority.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Scriptural means it agrees with the oracles of God, unscriptural means it does NOT agree with the oracles of God. un and non are one in the same.
As I already explained, those things that are non-scriptural must be examined in the light of scripture to see if they fulfill scriptural goals or not. If they do, they belong with the scriptural. If they do not, they belong to the unscriptural. For instance, the New Testament does not mention Sunday School. However, if Sunday School is properly used to teach the Bible (a scriptural command) and to reach the lost (another scriptural command), then the Sunday School becomes a scriptural practice. Does your church have Sunday School classes? The church of Christ that I attended many years ago had Sunday School classes so according to your logic, your church is unscriptural. No church in the first century owned its own building, but met in homes or in other public places. Do you meet in a church building? So according to your logic, owning a church building is unscriptural. No church in the first century had pews. Do you sit on the floor in your church? So according to your logic, your church is unscriptural. No church in the first century had electricity or sound systems. Does your church have electricity and sound systems? So according to your logic, your church is unscriptural. None of these things above disagree with the oracles of God and neither do musical instruments (2 Chronicles 5:11-14; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16; Revelation 4:2-3).

What makes you think the Lord needs your enhancements? was His way not good enough for Him?
2 Chronicles 5:11-14 - And it came to pass when the priests came out of the Most Holy Place (for all the priests who were present had sanctified themselves, without keeping to their divisions), and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets-- indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever.." Musical instruments were His way in the OT.

Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument. Musical instruments are His way in the NT. *Show me in the NT where musical instruments are "forbidden".

Revelation 14:2 - And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne. This is the Lord's way even in heaven so it's good enough for me. Who are you to condemn His way? Do you think that you are too good for musical instruments?

The problem the Christian church has is that they cannot prove mechanical musical instruments are authorized by our Lord, they prefer like you to be "Will Worshipers" filling their own bellies.
You cannot prove that musical instruments are forbidden by the Lord and the verses that I quoted above prove otherwise.

Colossians 2:23 (KJV)
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Some versions call this "self imposed religion" :

Colossians 2:23 (NKJV)
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
You need to read this verse in context: Colossians 2:18 - Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations-- 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? Do not handle musical instruments is a doctrine of men.

It says "one to another" therefore the commandment is for all, so if it is a mechanical musical instrument Paul referred to then everyone in your congregation needs to learn to play the instruments as you cannot worship for someone else and the command is for all.
What are you jabbering about now?

You are mistaken to think we are not to judge, it says to judge as we are to be judged:

Matthew 7:2 (KJV)
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
You should take heed to that command. John 7:24 - Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment. Condemning musical instruments when the Bible does no such thing is not righteous judgment.

I am to try the spirits :

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 - By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. I confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Your teaching is false and I am to mark you like the Christian church denomination:
My teaching is true as I have already proved from 2 Chronicles 5:11-14; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16; Revelation 14:2-3. Your false teaching that musical instruments are forbidden from worship in church is false and you are yet to show me a Bible verse that backs up your claim. You are wrong to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did, as the angels in heaven do and as the apostle Paul instructed. Period.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Causing divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which Christians/Believers have learned certainly describes you and your church.
 
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I never said it was "wicked." I would like to see where musical authorization is permitted in the NT.

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
1 Cor 6:12

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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2 Thess 2:15 Hold fast the traditions you have been taught....did the Jewish traditions include worship with instruments?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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2 Thess 2:15 Hold fast the traditions you have been taught....did the Jewish traditions include worship with instruments?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

their were a lot of Jewish traditions that had very little basis in God's ways, but rejoicing in Him with psalms at the temple is one with a very tangible and literal foundation in His word.

from
myjewishlearning.com:

The destruction of the Second Temple also served as the catalyst for a vast change in the music of worship. In the Temple, the Levites had employed instruments -- drums, cymbals, horns, lyres, trumpets -- but after the destruction of the Temple, the rabbis forbade the use of instruments during prayer. Two reasons for this proscription have been suggested. First, the absence of musical instruments would serve as a sign of mourning for the Temple. Second, the rabbis of the Talmud opposed the use of instruments in prayer services because of their anti-Hellenistic sentiments.

for us, we do not lack a temple - no reason to mourn such a loss, but every reason to rejoice in this! and there is no more Jew or Greek in Christ :)


 
Dec 12, 2013
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you're one to talk about "man made self imposed religion" lol.

the scriptures:
"it is good to make music to the Lord"

Campbellites:
"it is not good to make music to the Lord"

the scriptures:
"all scripture is God-breathed and profitable for instruction and training in righteousness"

Campbellites:
"anything instructed or encouraged in the Old Testament is sinful to do unless the apostles specifically approve it"

Amen and not to mention that the two sets of verses they use to push their heretical man made religious dogma have nothing at all to do with assembly capacity worship........!
 

ISeeYou

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2015
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So we are to teach and and sing Psalms but not do the psalms according to these folks?

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray.

Is any merry?
let him sing psalms.

Okay, lets start here...

Psalm 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Psalm 95:2
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalm 105:2 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.

Then you get here

Psalm 98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Oops, or here

Psalm 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

Oopsy ....Etc etc.

So your just allowed to sing the psalms to him (about singing unto him with a harp) but dont think to do the psalms (by actually singing with a harp) because harps are somehow sinful?

And so you end up singing songs (encouraging you to sing with harps) unto the Lord which are now regarded as sinful to do unto the Lord?

So dont you just end up singing about doing sinful things to the Lord??

This boggles my mind, hows that work? LOL

I read the weirdest stuff on the internet

On another note (if its not sinful for you to listen)

I found this little girl who plays our modern day harp here, she is just amazing for her youth

<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: trebuchet ms">[video=youtube;xDGLfJdtPI8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDGLfJdtPI8[/video]

I dont know how she even balances that thing
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
Yup, instruments can sing. Having lyrics as a necessary part of singing is a Gregorian thought which is passed down in our musical education. The people who began to write down music as a language during the late Middle Ages defined "singing" as lyrics with rhythmic vocal pitch intervals,
not how the Bible defines it, nor how Koine Greek defines it. Singing doesn't necessitate vocals, nor necessitate lyrics.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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MUSIC IN CHURCH!

One of the greatest praise songs ever written by man (York & Blankenship)

WORTHY OF WORSHIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YelJx9lk5R

[video=youtube;YelJx9lk5R]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YelJx9lk5R[/video]
Worthy of worship, worthy of praise,
Worthy of honour and glory;
Worthy of all the glad songs we sing,
Worthy of all the offerings we bring.

You are worthy, Father, Creator.
You are worthy, Saviour, Sustainer.
You are worthy, worthy and wonderful;
Worthy of worship and praise.

Worthy of rev'rence, worthy of fear,
Worthy of love and devotion;
Worthy of bowing and bending of knees,
Worthy of all this and added to these.

You are worthy, Father, Creator.
You are worthy, Saviour, Sustainer.
You are worthy, worthy and wonderful;
Worthy of worship and praise.

Almighty Father, Master and Lord,
King of all kings and Redeemer,
Wonderful Counsellor, Comforter, Friend,
Saviour and Source of our life without end.

You are worthy, Father, Creator.
You are worthy, Saviour, Sustainer.
You are worthy, worthy and wonderful;
Worthy of worship and praise.



Mark Blankenship


 
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Mar 12, 2014
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The Old Law had nothing to do with instruments so that means you do not read Psalm to uplift your spirit. The Sacred Word(OT/NT) is the breath of ABBA and a Christian cannot disregard the OT that is foundation for NT because remember JESUS was Hebrew that is his culture of worshiping. The Bible is about teachings/instructions how a believer lives ones life with in this world chaos. Music is powerful in a believer life that is probably why some folks in my town think I am crazy because I am always singing praise, dancing, and I have joy. Christians are suppose to give praises, sing, worship, and pray with a loud voice to ABBA. Please do not become dead within your spirit, soul and heart. Look around every culture has music because it brings joy to ones soul and I am speaking joyful music to the soul, mind and heart. Do not allow satan to take your joy, praise, songs within your heart(soul), thanksgiving or prayer with a loud voice. Be Bless with joy in your heart!!

Following the OT law does not make one a Christian. Christians are to follow Christ's NT gospel.

As I have pointed out in other posts of mine:

(1) if one goes back to the OT law to try and justify the use of IM, then one has an obligation to keep the WHOLE law, Gal 5:3 for as James says "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

(2) it's sinful for a Christian that is married to Christ and His NT gospel to try and also follow Moses and his OT law at the same time. Rom 7:1-6.


(3) Jn 4:23,24 true worshippers worship according to truth, God's word Jn 17;17 not as they please. If one does not worship as prescribed by God then his worship is in vain, Mt 15:9. Christ NT word/truth commands Christians to sing. Anything other than singing as playing humming would be adding changing the command. If I do not have to do what God says when it comes to singing, then there is no reason I have to do what God says when it comes to anything. Not following the bible is how you end up with all these various religious groups believing the totally contrary to each other yet think they are all biblically "right". Yet all this contradiction is something the bible condemns.

(4) CHrist took the OT out of the way, all of it including Psalms, making in all inactive ineffective, Col 2:14; Eph 2:15. Again, NT worship is done in spirit and truth, Jn 4:23,24. The Hebrew writer gives us a decsription of how worship was under the OT law in Heb 9:6-10 with verse 10 saying "
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

NT worship is spiritual while OT worship was carnal. When one sings from his heart/soul to God that singing is coming from his spirit. Those OT ordinances David gave to play IM were carnal. God is not interested in NOISE coming from a carnal instrument but loves to hear His children singing from their heart to His.
 
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Why does God give people the talents to play musical instruments?

Acts 17:29 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."

Acts 19:24 "
For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;"

Some have artistic talent to make graven images out of gold silver and stones. So they should use their talent to make graven images to worship so their talent does not go to waste?
 
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......does your version say that we get entangled in the yoke of manmade bondage....cuz that is exactly what you do. Oh you stiff necked man. Oh well.

Gal 5:1 that yoke of bondage was the OT law.

Phil 3:16 Paul admonished Christians to " .....walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing...."
Note that Paul did not say "do your own thing" but walk by the same rule, mind the same thing.
Religious organizations are doing their own thing instead of walking by the same rule and that is why you have contradiction, division, conflicting beliefs among them...which the bible condemns.

The rule (kanon) commands singing. Are YOU walking by this rule?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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My bad. it's the church of Christ denomination.
Mt 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Show me from the bible that "MY CHURCH" that Christ built is actually a man-made denomination?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
1 Cor 6:12


In the context (and in the context of Rom 14:1ff) Paul is dealing with matters of opinion/expediency not a matter of law.
Was it lawful for Paul to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, etc?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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2 Thess 2:15 Hold fast the traditions you have been taught....did the Jewish traditions include worship with instruments?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The NT tradition is the command to sing.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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So we are to teach and and sing Psalms but not do the psalms according to these folks?

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray.

Is any merry?
let him sing psalms.

Okay, lets start here...

Psalm 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Psalm 95:2
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalm 105:2 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.

Then you get here

Psalm 98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Oops, or here

Psalm 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

Oopsy ....Etc etc.

So your just allowed to sing the psalms to him (about singing unto him with a harp) but dont think to do the psalms (by actually singing with a harp) because harps are somehow sinful?

And so you end up singing songs (encouraging you to sing with harps) unto the Lord which are now regarded as sinful to do unto the Lord?

So dont you just end up singing about doing sinful things to the Lord??

This boggles my mind, hows that work? LOL

I read the weirdest stuff on the internet

On another note (if its not sinful for you to listen)

I found this little girl who plays our modern day harp here, she is just amazing for her youth



I dont know how she even balances that thing

Christians can sing a psalm. Psalm simply means a pious song, and it may or not not be one found in the bible.

Did God command Christians to play a 'carnal harp'?

A carnal harp does not teach or admonish as singing does.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
Gal 5:1 that yoke of bondage was the OT law.

Phil 3:16 Paul admonished Christians to " .....walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing...."
Note that Paul did not say "do your own thing" but walk by the same rule, mind the same thing.
Religious organizations are doing their own thing instead of walking by the same rule and that is why you have contradiction, division, conflicting beliefs among them...which the bible condemns.

The rule (kanon) commands singing. Are YOU walking by this rule?
I worship jesus because He is gracious with me. I deserve hell but He pulled me out. I love Him and worship Him out of love and gratitude. I am free to love jesus and I don't need your or anyone else's approval in how I connect with him and love him.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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I worship jesus because He is gracious with me. I deserve hell but He pulled me out. I love Him and worship Him out of love and gratitude. I am free to love jesus and I don't need your or anyone else's approval in how I connect with him and love him.

The issue, as far as I am concerned, is one worshipping as God prescribed or worshipping according to his own will....."will worship" > self-righteousness, Col 2:23. If worship is not as God prescribed then it is in vain, Mt 15:9.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
The issue, as far as I am concerned, is one worshipping as God prescribed or worshipping according to his own will....."will worship" > self-righteousness, Col 2:23. If worship is not as God prescribed then it is in vain, Mt 15:9.
I'll take my chances that your interpretation is jacked up.