DeMystifying the Trinity

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Elin said:

If Triunalism or Trinitarianism were so important, as a doctrine, Our Lord Jesus would have spoken at length, during His lifetime and earthly ministry and that´s "barely" mentioned to back up the RCC´s teaching.

Salvation do not rest on that belief or understanding. If it is "revealed" I´m open to hear God, not the RCC teachings.

Elin · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

Who made that rule?

How much did Jesus speak at length regarding his sacrificial death which would save those who believed in him, the gospel and heart of Christianity?

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Elin said:

If These are 3 agents... The Scripture lied to many people?

Fortunately, this is a forum and the only ONE who is right and correct is God, and His Son, Our Lord Jesus.

Elin · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

Nope. . .three persons in one divine being, God (Mt 28:19), who saves,

the Father decreeing salvation by forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
the Son effecting salvation on the cross (Ro 3:25), and
the Holy Spirit applying salvation in the new birth (Jn 3:5).

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Elin said:

Again, Mrs Allin:

When our Lord died said: Into Thy hands I commit my spirit...

Luk 23:46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

He didn´t said "body", "mind", but "spirit" and, if He taught about Triunealism, the record we got did not keep that registry (for future generations).

Bowman · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

The times I have read God "revealed" in the NT was when He spoke to Jesus saying "listen to Him..." and when He torn the temple curtains; but it wasn´t Triune, but in a dualistic form, same way when Jesus called Lazarus out of his tomb.

Joh 11:41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me.

Joh 11:42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me."

The Spirit is indeed mentioned in this account.

Try showing some context next time...

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Elin said:

I hope God, Himself, assist my dully mind; because I don´t have problem understanding that formulae, but the reason God, as Spirit, needed another spirit to assist or serve Him, since He is Spirit (or another dimension I´m far off).

Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Bowman said:

You meant this:

Joh 11:33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in his spirit and greatly troubled.

1) Was "it" God´s Spirit? or

2) Jesus´ spirit?

He knows!

You probably know.

And I showed part of the context, on demand.

Bowman · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

Yet another verse plucked out of context.

Even this one verse mandates worship via The Spirit and 'Truth'....of which, all NT examples using this term have The Son as the subject!

Placed back into context it reads true worship of God as Father, Son & Spirit.

The Trinity.

Bowman · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

The Greek has the article and actually reads...'The Spirit'.

So...context has The Son...The Father....The Spirit....!

Owned.

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Elin said:

1) Mat 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

2) Mat 17:9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, "Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead."

3) Mat 17:12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands."

4) Mat 17:22 As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men,Mat 17:23 and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed.

5) Mat 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

6) Mat 20:18 Behold! We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes. And they will condemn Him to death.

7) Mat 26:2 You know that the Passover is coming after two days, and the Son of Man is betrayed to be crucified.

These are simply in Matt.

Do you really need more verses to see that, when He taught, He taught a doctrine lengthily?

8) Mat 26:24 Indeed, the Son of Man goes, as it has been written about Him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It were good for him if that man was never born.

9) Mat 26:45 Then Jesus went back to the followers and said, "Are you still sleeping and resting? The time has come for the Son of Man to be handed over to the control of sinful men.

secularhermit · Jan 25, 2015

Bowman said:

Amen! I also want Him helps all to "see" Him better.

1) Was it written in Greek Capitalized? (I wish I could read it in the "original" copy, at least)

2) each time I speak of my family, by names, I´d give their names... It´s so odd that our Lord "abandoned" us to speculations or manipulations.

I´m convinced, now, our Lord is in the presence of our Holy Father, and that He is merciful to me, a sinner

Act 7:55 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

Act 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

How come, being ONE, I still "see" two (or 3 persons) individually?

Heaven knows!

Elin · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

1) Mat 12:40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

2) Mat 17:9 And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, "Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead."

3) Mat 17:12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands."

4) Mat 17:22 As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men,Mat 17:23 and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed.

5) Mat 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

6) Mat 20:18 Behold! We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes. And they will condemn Him to death.

7) Mat 26:2 You know that the Passover is coming after two days, and the Son of Man is betrayed to be crucified.

These are simply in Matt.

Do you really need more verses to see that, when He taught, He taught a doctrine lengthily?

8) Mat 26:24 Indeed, the Son of Man goes, as it has been written about Him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It were good for him if that man was never born.

9) Mat 26:45 Then Jesus went back to the followers and said, "Are you still sleeping and resting? The time has come for the Son of Man to be handed over to the control of sinful men.

Good Scriptures, but saying nothing about it being a sacrifice of atonement to pay for the sin of those who believe in him, thus reconciling them to God in justification.

Bowman · Jan 25, 2015

secularhermit said:

It would only be 'speculation' if you were unfamiliar with scripture.

You like quoting Acts.....remember to read of the Bereans who studied the scriptures daily to see if what was stated was true.

Your understanding of The Trinity is one of a straw-man.

You assemble your own version of it...and then you knock it down.

Each Person of The Trinity IS the One God...but each is not the other.

Its simple scriptural logic...

CS1 · Jan 28, 2015

Bowman said:

I always am in awe when I see those speak with such authority in context to the GodHead which we are to do so reverently and approach with the understanding it is a Mystery that we cannot fully understand. why? because God is to Big and to powerful for our finite minds to know we only know what HE the Spirit of God teaches us through rev gen/ special and illumination from relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. we error when we think we can fully explain the Godhead when they cannot but think they can. the Word trinity is not even in the bible because it is a Concept about the Godhead which is not fully understood.

newbirth · Jan 29, 2015

secularhermit said:

my friend there are those who cannot be taught....even if the scripture jumps out and bite them...and brother Paul has left a verse especially for those...vs 7
[h=1]1 Corinthians 8:5-7King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]5 [/SUP]For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

secularhermit · Jan 29, 2015

Bowman said:

Since ancient never knew such logic, I could be as lost as they were, because they never read the Gospel as Scriptue, but only "Listen Israel..."

Well! Thanks for your kind sharing of thought.

secularhermit · Jan 29, 2015

Elin said:

You asked abou this!

Originally Posted by Elin

Who made that rule?

How much did Jesus speak at length regarding his sacrificial death which would save those who believed in him, the gospel and heart of Christianity?

Now you re talking about atonement...

Kerry · Jan 29, 2015

Abraham knew the Gospel. Jesus said that Abraham saw my day and rejoiced. Umm hhm Abraham had no law.

newbirth · Jan 29, 2015

Kerry said:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

DeMystifying the Trinity

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