Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[kennethcadwell]

We'll just have to wait and see, Kenneth.

Again, I've already provided you with documentation that Solomon himself had things IMPORTED VIA SHIP which were used in relation to the temple of his time. As such, the Jews during the time of the prophesied third temple could very well do the same.

The Temple Institute group has like I said already built the vessels, vestments, menorah, and many other things already for the temple. They are just waiting for the temple to be rebuilt to move that stuff in, and this has been tried to move forward since Clinton was in office. Pushing the way for a peace treaty to be signed, giving the temple mount over to a shared arrangement. They have even contracted an architect who has drawn up a blue print showing the third temple side by side on the mount next to the dome of the rock......

 

[PlainWord]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast...

We all know that Rome is located in the wilderness, right? Hmm. What about MECCA??

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Here, then, are yet three more descriptors of the antichrist, this time from the book of Revelation, and this is where the prophecies become even more precise:

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (Revelation 13:1-18)

First of all, again, there are two distinct "beasts" or "kingdoms" being spoken of here. The first "beast" is still referring to the antichrist and the "another beast" who comes up is seen working in conjunction with this first "beast" or in conjunction with the antichrist. I'm not going to discuss the identity of this "another beast" at this time (I've previously suggested who it might be), but, instead, I'm going to keep my focus upon the first "beast" or upon the antichrist. In relation to the same, we find three more descriptors in what we just read:

1. The number of his name is "six hundred threescore and six" or the famous/infamous "666"..
2. This "beast" or this "kingdom" is administered a "deadly wound which is healed".
3. The whole world "wonders after the beast".

Let's start with the "666".

Back on April 18th, 1915, the following question and answer appeared in "Our Sunday Visitor", the largest Catholic weekly in America:

http://biblelight.net/OSV1915.gif

If you follow the link and then click on the image, then you can read the following to the left of the bicycle image:

What are the letters supposed to be in the Pope's crown, and what do they signify, if anything? The letters inscribed in the Pope's mitre are these: Vicarius Filii Dei, which is the Latin for Vicar of the Son of God.

Now, the very fact that this question was not only asked, but also answered, leads one to firmly believe that such a mitre was actually in existence at that time and that it also bore an inscription upon it. After some people rightly added up "the number of this name", it was denied that such a mitre actually existed and this publication of "Our Sunday Visitor" has mysteriously disappeared from the archives...or so they claim. Anyhow, for those of you who not only remember your Roman numerals, but who also recall that the "u" and the "v" were originally the same, here is "the number of his name":

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = no numeric value
R = no numeric value
I = 1
V = 5
S = no numeric value

F = no numeric value
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E = no numeric value
I = 1

Add it all together and what do you get? Well, you get the following...

112 + 53 + 501 = 666

...just as prophesied.

Now, if anybody should seek to refute that such a title was ever used in relation to the Roman Pontiff or seek to insist that such a title ONLY appears in the allegedly forged "Donation of Constantine", then I shall gladly counter refute any such attempted refutations.

Moving on.to our next descriptor, we read:

"And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." (Revelation 13:12)

Again:

"And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." (Revelation 13:14)

According to prophecy, this "beast" or the "kingdom" of the antichrist is going to be administered a "deadly wound" from which it will be "healed" and "live". Well, what's that all about? Furthermore, in relation to this same "deadly wound", we read:

Revelation chapter 13

[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Whoever this "beast" is whom John is describing, "one of his seven heads is wounded to death and his deadly wound is healed". Well, what, then, is a "head" in Bible prophecy? Again, there's no need to guess for we read:

"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." (Revelation 17:9)

Huh?

A "head" is a "mountain" or a "hill" (this same underlying Greek word which is here translated as "mountain" is translated as "hill" in Matthew 5:14, Luke 4:29 & 9:37)?

How the hell can a "mountain" or a "hill" receive a "deadly wound" which is later "healed"?

Friends, not only is this possible, BUT IT'S PAST HISTORY AND IT PERTAINS TO THE PAPACY/THE VATICAN!

First of all, ROME has long been known for its "seven hills". In fact, here is a map of the same:



Although the Papacy currently resides in Vatican City which is on the northwest side of the Tiber River and it is therefore not now situated upon one of Rome's seven hills, such was not always the Papacy's location. In fact, the Papacy once found its residency in the Lateran Palace situated upon Caelian Hill:

CHURCHES OF ROME

The Edict of Milan (313) secured Christians' freedom and legal recognition. By imperial edicts, Constantine restored Christians' property and strengthened the Church hierarchy (without giving too much offense to Rome's influential pagans!). He ordered basilicas built over the cellae memoriae marking St. Peter's, St. Paul's, and other martyrs' tombs. And he donated his personal property, received in dowry from his wife, for the first papal cathedral and residence in Christian history. So begins the story of St. John Lateran.

HISTORY

It was to Pope Melchiade (311-314) that Constantine gave the palace on Monte Celio, formerly property of the patrician Laterani family (hence the basilica's appellation "Lateran"),which his second wife Fausta (Maxentius' sister) had brought to the marriage. Soon after, the Emperor razed the adjoining imperial horse-guards barracks (allegedly the equites singulares had supported Maxentius against Constantine) and commissioned the construction of the world's first Christian basilica on that site.

Henceforth, the Lateran palace, known as the Patriarchate, was the Pope's official residence until the fifteenth century. The basilica, consecrated in 324 by Melchiade's successor, Pope Sylvester I (314-335), was dedicated, by will of the Emperor, to Christ the Savior. In the tenth century, Pope Sergio III (904-911) added St. John the Baptist, and in the twelfth century, Pope Lucius (1144- 1145), St. John the Evangelist, to the basilica's dedication.

In the course of its history, St. John Lateran suffered just about as many disasters and revivals as the papacy it hosted. Sacked by Alaric in 408 and Genseric in 455, it was rebuilt by Pope Leo the Great (440-461), and centuries later by Pope Hadrian I (772-795). Almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake in 896, the basilica was again restored by Pope Sergius III (904-911). Later the church was heavily damaged by fires in 1308 and 1360.

When the Popes returned from their sojourn in Avignon, France (1304-1377), they found their basilica and palace in such disrepair, that they decided to transfer to the Vatican, near St. Peter's. (That basilica, also built by Constantine, had until then served primarily as a pilgrimage church.)

Pope Sixtus V (1585-1590), in one of his frenzied urban renewal projects, tore down St. John Lateran's original buildings, replacing them with late-Renaissance structures by his favorite architect Domenico Fontana. Later, Pope Innocent X (1644-1655) engaged one of the Baroque's most brilliant architects, Francesco Borromini, to transform St. John Lateran's interior in time for the Jubilee of 1650. Finally, Pope Clement XII (17301740) launched a competition for the design of a new facade, which was completed by Alessandro Galilei in 1735.

Of the original Lateran basilica and palace, only the Popes' private chapel, the Sancta Sanctorum (See Inside the Vatican, August-September 1995) remains. Sixtus V removed this magnificently-frescoed shrine to what has become a grimy traffic island. As an approach to the chapel, Sixtus moved from the Lateran Palace the Scala Santa, the staircase which Jesus is believed to have ascended to Pontius Pilate's palace in Jerusalem, and according to tradition, was brought to Rome by St. Helena herself.

Many important historic events have taken place in St. John Lateran, including 5 Ecumenical Councils and many diocesan synods. In 1929 the Lateran Pacts, which established the territory and status of the State of Vatican City, were signed here between the Holy See and the Government of Italy.

Constantine gave the Lateran Palace on Monte Celio or Caelian Hill...

Monte Celio (the Caelian Hill) | Hills of Rome

...to Pope Melchiade and it was the official residency of the Papacy until the fifteenth century. IOW, it originally rested upon one of Rome's seven hills or upon one of the "seven heads" of "the beast". Well, if you know your Roman history, then you know that between the years of 1870 and 1929 the Vatican didn't recognize the Italian state nor did the Italian state recognize the Vatican. Yes, this is what was known as "The Roman Question":

Roman Question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Roman Question (Italian: questione romana) was a political dispute between the Italian Government and the Papacy from 1861 to 1929.

The Roman Question began when Rome was declared Capital of Italy on March 27, 1861, and ended with the Lateran Pacts between King Victor Emmanuel III of Italy and Pope Pius XI in 1929. After the capture of Rome on 20 September 1870, the popes considered themselves "prisoners in the Vatican".

After the Lateran Pacts were signed in 1929, the Popes regularly visited parts of Rome outside the Vatican. In particular, they took possession, after their election, of their cathedral, the Basilica of St. John Lateran, situated on the opposite side of the city.

It was during this timeframe that one of Rome's "heads" or "hills" received its "deadly wound" in that "the Popes considered themselves prisoners in the Vatican". Yes, it wasn't until 1929 when "The Lateran Treaty" was signed AT THE LATERAN PALACE ON CAELIAN HILL WHERE THE PAPACY ORIGINALLY RESIDED that "the deadly wound was healed". First, here is a papal artifact which is an original picture of the historic treaty being signed:

February 11, 1929: The Signing of the Lateran Treaty

Next are two newspaper headlines and stories from that historic day in 1929 which speak of "the wound being healed". In fact, the headline for this first article is entitled "Heal Wound of Many Years":

http://biblelight.net/lateran2.gif

If you click on the article after following the link, then it will be enlarged and you will be able to read the following:

The Roman Question tonight was a thing of the past and the Vatican was at peace with Italy. The formal accomplishment of this today was the exchange of signatures IN THE HISTORIC PALACE OF ST. JOHN LATERAN by two noteworthy plenipotentiaries, Cardinal Gasparri for Pope Pius XI and Premier Mussolini for King Victor Emmanuel III.

In affixing the autographs to the memorable document, HEALING THE WOUND WHICH HAS FESTERED SINCE 1870, extreme cordiality was displayed on both sides.

In this next article entitled "Historic Scene in the Lateran Palace" (the original residency of the Papacy) from another newspaper on that historic day...

http://biblelight.net/lateran3.gif

...we read the following:

Their meeting was to have been a secret guarded for the inner circle, but the story. like so many of its kind, leaked, and a crowd, tense with excitement, is here to witness the passage of these two men whose pens WILL HEAL A WOUND OF 59 YEARS.

THIS, friends, is what we're actually reading about and, like I said, IT IS PAST HISTORY AND IT PERTAINS TO THE PAPACY/THE VATICAN!

Anyhow, all of the descriptors given in relation to "the beast" in both Daniel and Revelation have to fit AND THEY DO IN RELATION TO THE PAPACY/THE VATICAN!

I'll get to how "the whole world wondered after the beast" in a future post. Right now, I have some other things to attend to.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

The Temple Institute group has like I said already built the vessels, vestments, menorah, and many other things already for the temple. They are just waiting for the temple to be rebuilt to move that stuff in, and this has been tried to move forward since Clinton was in office. Pushing the way for a peace treaty to be signed, giving the temple mount over to a shared arrangement. They have even contracted an architect who has drawn up a blue print showing the third temple side by side on the mount next to the dome of the rock......

I only have a minute, but, again, I've been following what has been transpiring in Israel/Jerusalem for the past 20 something years. Why are you mentioning things which aren't on the list of Revelation chapter 18, btw? No need to answer. Anyhow, THERE IS SOMETHING that the Jews are waiting for/demanding in relation to the coming third temple:

A Call to Everyone in the World to Send a Letter to the Pope

We read:

A Call to Everyone in the World to Send a Letter to the Pope

The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement sent a letter to Pope Benedict XVI in Rome requesting him to return to Israel — without delay — the Holy Temple Menorah, the vessels, and the treasures that were stolen by the Romans and taken to Rome when they destroyed the Holy Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 ce. These Temple vessels will be used by the priests of Israel in the Holy Third Temple.

That's just the opening...anyone who wants to can follow the link for themselves and read the entire article.

Anyhow, the Jews are demanding that THE POPE return the vessels and the menorah which were taken by Titus in 70 A.D. and which are still depicted upon the Arch of Titus IN ROME:



Although the Papacy/the Vatican denies that they presently have such in their possession, I fully expect the same to "mysteriously appear" to be used as bargaining chips for future negotiations between the Papacy/the Vatican and Jerusalem.

Time will tell.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I only have a minute, but, again, I've been following what has been transpiring in Israel/Jerusalem for the past 20 something years. Why are you mentioning things which aren't on the list of Revelation chapter 18, btw? No need to answer. Anyhow, THERE IS SOMETHING that the Jews are waiting for/demanding in relation to the coming third temple:

A Call to Everyone in the World to Send a Letter to the Pope

We read:

That's just the opening...anyone who wants to can follow the link for themselves and read the entire article.

Anyhow, the Jews are demanding that THE POPE return the vessels and the menorah which were taken by Titus in 70 A.D. and which are still depicted upon the Arch of Titus IN ROME:

View attachment 96400

Although the Papacy/the Vatican denies that they presently have such in their possession, I fully expect the same to "mysteriously appear" to be used as bargaining chips for future negotiations between the Papacy/the Vatican and Jerusalem.

Time will tell.

Why would they need to use the for negotiations when the Temple Institute has already rebuilt all of this stuff for the third temple making that stuff needless in a negotiation effort. Second thing is it could be possible that the Vatican doesn't have those things as the Knights Templar got away with a lot of treasure and hid it and that has to this day still not been found.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Why would they need to use the for negotiations when the Temple Institute has already rebuilt all of this stuff for the third temple making that stuff needless in a negotiation effort. Second thing is it could be possible that the Vatican doesn't have those things as the Knights Templar got away with a lot of treasure and hid it and that has to this day still not been found.

I'm not the one who wrote and sent the aforementioned letter to the Pope, so you'd have to ask them...

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'm not the one who wrote and sent the aforementioned letter to the Pope, so you'd have to ask them...

That is why I posed it as a question type, because those things are not needed for a third temple being as they have already rebuilt the things that go into the temple. I know they may like to have those things back, but it has no bearing on the temple.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That is why I posed it as a question type, because those things are not needed for a third temple being as they have already rebuilt the things that go into the temple. I know they may like to have those things back, but it has no bearing on the temple.

Again, I'm more than aware of what preparations have already been made in regard to the coming third temple, but I simply cannot believe that the Jews wouldn't prefer the relics from their previous temple over anything new which has recently been made. As such, should said relics "mysteriously appear", then I can honestly foresee how they could be used as bargaining chips in future negotiations. Anyhow, again, time will tell.

 

[PlainWord]

A "head" is a "mountain" or a "hill" (this same underlying Greek word which is here translated as "mountain" is translated as "hill" in Matthew 5:14, Luke 4:29 & 9:37)?

Both Rome and Mecca are "on" 7 " mountains or hills. But, is this even relevant? Was John trying to tell us that Babylon is a city on 7 hills? If that's what he meant, he could have easily said this. But that isn't what John says.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

MYSTERY BABYLON, the HARLOT, the WOMAN is a false religion which features “IDOL WORSHIP.” That is the historic Biblical context of “HARLOT.” The word "head" implies intelligence/thought process/reasoning/and/or action. The head controls the movements of a person. Does a false religion sit on 7 literal hills or mountains?

Secondly, a "Mountain" is often a spiritual term for "a spiritual stronghold/nation of faith" as used in many places especially by prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and some of the minor prophets, etc. Revelation, being a spiritual and prophetic book, can we safely assume that John used "mountain" in a similar fashion depending upon context?

How can a religious belief/faith sit upon a literal group of mountains when faith is spiritual and is a condition of the heart, mind and/or soul? So, Literal Mountain doesn't make a lot of sense as applied here.

I see the above passage as meaning the BEAST will be comprised of 7 religious nations or spiritual strongholds of a particular faith. If my theory is correct, does the Catholic religion makes sense as the BEAST? What are the 7 biggest catholic countries?

Total # of Catholics as of 2010:

#1 Brazil - 128 million
#2 Mexico - 98 million
#3 Philippines - 81 million
#4 USA - 76 million
#5 Italy - 49 million
#6 France - 43 million
#7 Congo - 38 million

7 of the next 8 Catholic countries are in Europe or South America. As a % of population only the PI, Mexico and Italy of the above group have higher than an 80% concentration or spiritual stronghold of Catholics.

What Biblical context do we have of any of the above 7 nations being led by the AntiChrist against Israel? NONE of the above named countries, with the possible exception of Italy, have any historical context in the end times. Also, none of these Catholic nations have any geographic proximity to Israel which we know is a central player in End Times Prophesy.

Therefore, Catholicism playing a prominent role as the HARLOT which threatens Israel seems highly unlikely. The Man of Sin or AntChrist being Catholic and leading an army against Israel also seems highly improbable because Italians don't seem to have any strong religious desires to the lead an army against Israel in today's world. Nor do they have the military might.

Now let’s consider ISLAM and Muslim Nations as the ones the HARLOT rides.

Top Islamic Nations by count as of 2010:

#1 Indonesia - 205 million
#2 Pakistan -178 million
#3 India -177 million
#4 Bangladesh - 149 million
#5 Egypt - 80 million
#6 Nigeria - 76 million
#7 Iran - 75 million
#8 Turkey - 75 million
#9 Algeria - 35 million
#10 Morocco - 32 million
#11 Iraq - 31 million
#12 Sudan - 31 million
#13 Afghanistan - 29 million
#14 Ethiopia - 29 million

Are any of the above listed as end times players? Magog, Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal which Ezekiel identifies in Ezek 38 are from the region of and around modern day TURKEY. Turkey was of course the center of the Ottoman Empire which was the 7th Beast that John saw. The Ottoman Empire was the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] in an unbroken succession of pagan nations replacing the Eastern Roman Empire, which was the last part of Rome to fall.

Many see Rosh as Russia. Meshech, and Tubal are in the region of southwestern part of the former Soviet Union. Ezekiel 37 is the famous passage about the Valley of Dry Bones. Many see this passage as the re-birth of Israel as a military strength in the area. After Israel is re-called from the Nations and becomes powerful we have Ezek 38:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him..

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet...

Persia is of course IRAN. Libya didn't make the list because of her small population but she is 96.6% Islamic.

Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah.

Gomer is the Istanbul area of Turkey. This area is called the GOLDEN HORN. Some speculate that the LITTLE HORN comes from here. Togarmah is also in Turkey near the Syrian boarder.

The locations given in Rev 13:2 of lion, leopard, and bear we know are Iran, Syria and Iraq. According to Ezekiel, Turkey, Libya, Ethiopia, and the Muslim parts of Russia (through Georgia) attack Israel. We don't know how strong the Russian force is or if it is Muslim so let's only look at the spiritual composition of the 6 countries that we know are involved in a major assault against Israel.

IRAN - 99.7%, 75 million
IRAQ - 98.9%, 31 million
SYRIA - 92.8%, 21 million
TURKEY - 98.6%, 75 million
LIBYA - 96.6%, 6.3 million
ETHIOPIA - 33.8%, 29 million
RUSSIA - ?? ????

I sorta see a little bit of an ISLAM spiritual stronghold in the nations we know come against Israel.

Not only does ISLAM fit every single description given about the HARLOT, the locations and identities of the nations that attack Israel are mostly ISLAMIC. Now if we look at how they kill those who refuse to covert – they behead – we have a pretty solid GAME, SET and MATCH..

 

[Ukorin]

Both Rome and Mecca are "on" 7 " mountains or hills. But, is this even relevant? Was John trying to tell us that Babylon is a city on 7 hills? If that's what he meant, he could have easily said this. But that isn't what John says.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

MYSTERY BABYLON, the HARLOT, the WOMAN is a false religion which features “IDOL WORSHIP.” That is the historic Biblical context of “HARLOT.” The word "head" implies intelligence/thought process/reasoning/and/or action. The head controls the movements of a person. Does a false religion sit on 7 literal hills or mountains?

Secondly, a "Mountain" is often a spiritual term for "a spiritual stronghold/nation of faith" as used in many places especially by prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and some of the minor prophets, etc. Revelation, being a spiritual and prophetic book, can we safely assume that John used "mountain" in a similar fashion depending upon context?

How can a religious belief/faith sit upon a literal group of mountains when faith is spiritual and is a condition of the heart, mind and/or soul? So, Literal Mountain doesn't make a lot of sense as applied here.

I see the above passage as meaning the BEAST will be comprised of 7 religious nations or spiritual strongholds of a particular faith. If my theory is correct, does the Catholic religion makes sense as the BEAST? What are the 7 biggest catholic countries?

Total # of Catholics as of 2010:

#1 Brazil - 128 million
#2 Mexico - 98 million
#3 Philippines - 81 million
#4 USA - 76 million
#5 Italy - 49 million
#6 France - 43 million
#7 Congo - 38 million

7 of the next 8 Catholic countries are in Europe or South America. As a % of population only the PI, Mexico and Italy of the above group have higher than an 80% concentration or spiritual stronghold of Catholics.

What Biblical context do we have of any of the above 7 nations being led by the AntiChrist against Israel? NONE of the above named countries, with the possible exception of Italy, have any historical context in the end times. Also, none of these Catholic nations have any geographic proximity to Israel which we know is a central player in End Times Prophesy.

Therefore, Catholicism playing a prominent role as the HARLOT which threatens Israel seems highly unlikely. The Man of Sin or AntChrist being Catholic and leading an army against Israel also seems highly improbable because Italians don't seem to have any strong religious desires to the lead an army against Israel in today's world. Nor do they have the military might.

Now let’s consider ISLAM and Muslim Nations as the ones the HARLOT rides.

Top Islamic Nations by count as of 2010:

#1 Indonesia - 205 million
#2 Pakistan -178 million
#3 India -177 million
#4 Bangladesh - 149 million
#5 Egypt - 80 million
#6 Nigeria - 76 million
#7 Iran - 75 million
#8 Turkey - 75 million
#9 Algeria - 35 million
#10 Morocco - 32 million
#11 Iraq - 31 million
#12 Sudan - 31 million
#13 Afghanistan - 29 million
#14 Ethiopia - 29 million

Are any of the above listed as end times players? Magog, Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal which Ezekiel identifies in Ezek 38 are from the region of and around modern day TURKEY. Turkey was of course the center of the Ottoman Empire which was the 7th Beast that John saw. The Ottoman Empire was the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] in an unbroken succession of pagan nations replacing the Eastern Roman Empire, which was the last part of Rome to fall.

Many see Rosh as Russia. Meshech, and Tubal are in the region of southwestern part of the former Soviet Union. Ezekiel 37 is the famous passage about the Valley of Dry Bones. Many see this passage as the re-birth of Israel as a military strength in the area. After Israel is re-called from the Nations and becomes powerful we have Ezek 38:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him..

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet...

Persia is of course IRAN. Libya didn't make the list because of her small population but she is 96.6% Islamic.

Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah.

Gomer is the Istanbul area of Turkey. This area is called the GOLDEN HORN. Some speculate that the LITTLE HORN comes from here. Togarmah is also in Turkey near the Syrian boarder.

The locations given in Rev 13:2 of lion, leopard, and bear we know are Iran, Syria and Iraq. According to Ezekiel, Turkey, Libya, Ethiopia, and the Muslim parts of Russia (through Georgia) attack Israel. We don't know how strong the Russian force is or if it is Muslim so let's only look at the spiritual composition of the 6 countries that we know are involved in a major assault against Israel.

IRAN - 99.7%, 75 million
IRAQ - 98.9%, 31 million
SYRIA - 92.8%, 21 million
TURKEY - 98.6%, 75 million
LIBYA - 96.6%, 6.3 million
ETHIOPIA - 33.8%, 29 million
RUSSIA - ?? ????

I sorta see a little bit of an ISLAM spiritual stronghold in the nations we know come against Israel.

Not only does ISLAM fit every single description given about the HARLOT, the locations and identities of the nations that attack Israel are mostly ISLAMIC. Now if we look at how they kill those who refuse to covert – they behead – we have a pretty solid GAME, SET and MATCH..

The harlot does not threaten Israel, the beast does... unless you count the harlot as threatening herself and her daughter by riding upon the beast in the first place.
Infighting among the daughters of the harlot should be expected... until they are unified upon the back of the beast.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Both Rome and Mecca are "on" 7 " mountains or hills. But, is this even relevant? Was John trying to tell us that Babylon is a city on 7 hills? If that's what he meant, he could have easily said this. But that isn't what John says.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

MYSTERY BABYLON, the HARLOT, the WOMAN is a false religion which features “IDOL WORSHIP.” That is the historic Biblical context of “HARLOT.” The word "head" implies intelligence/thought process/reasoning/and/or action. The head controls the movements of a person. Does a false religion sit on 7 literal hills or mountains?

Secondly, a "Mountain" is often a spiritual term for "a spiritual stronghold/nation of faith" as used in many places especially by prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and some of the minor prophets, etc. Revelation, being a spiritual and prophetic book, can we safely assume that John used "mountain" in a similar fashion depending upon context?

How can a religious belief/faith sit upon a literal group of mountains when faith is spiritual and is a condition of the heart, mind and/or soul? So, Literal Mountain doesn't make a lot of sense as applied here.

I see the above passage as meaning the BEAST will be comprised of 7 religious nations or spiritual strongholds of a particular faith. If my theory is correct, does the Catholic religion makes sense as the BEAST? What are the 7 biggest catholic countries?

Total # of Catholics as of 2010:

#1 Brazil - 128 million
#2 Mexico - 98 million
#3 Philippines - 81 million
#4 USA - 76 million
#5 Italy - 49 million
#6 France - 43 million
#7 Congo - 38 million

7 of the next 8 Catholic countries are in Europe or South America. As a % of population only the PI, Mexico and Italy of the above group have higher than an 80% concentration or spiritual stronghold of Catholics.

What Biblical context do we have of any of the above 7 nations being led by the AntiChrist against Israel? NONE of the above named countries, with the possible exception of Italy, have any historical context in the end times. Also, none of these Catholic nations have any geographic proximity to Israel which we know is a central player in End Times Prophesy.

Therefore, Catholicism playing a prominent role as the HARLOT which threatens Israel seems highly unlikely. The Man of Sin or AntChrist being Catholic and leading an army against Israel also seems highly improbable because Italians don't seem to have any strong religious desires to the lead an army against Israel in today's world. Nor do they have the military might.

Now let’s consider ISLAM and Muslim Nations as the ones the HARLOT rides.

Top Islamic Nations by count as of 2010:

#1 Indonesia - 205 million
#2 Pakistan -178 million
#3 India -177 million
#4 Bangladesh - 149 million
#5 Egypt - 80 million
#6 Nigeria - 76 million
#7 Iran - 75 million
#8 Turkey - 75 million
#9 Algeria - 35 million
#10 Morocco - 32 million
#11 Iraq - 31 million
#12 Sudan - 31 million
#13 Afghanistan - 29 million
#14 Ethiopia - 29 million

Are any of the above listed as end times players? Magog, Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal which Ezekiel identifies in Ezek 38 are from the region of and around modern day TURKEY. Turkey was of course the center of the Ottoman Empire which was the 7th Beast that John saw. The Ottoman Empire was the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] in an unbroken succession of pagan nations replacing the Eastern Roman Empire, which was the last part of Rome to fall.

Many see Rosh as Russia. Meshech, and Tubal are in the region of southwestern part of the former Soviet Union. Ezekiel 37 is the famous passage about the Valley of Dry Bones. Many see this passage as the re-birth of Israel as a military strength in the area. After Israel is re-called from the Nations and becomes powerful we have Ezek 38:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him..

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet...

Persia is of course IRAN. Libya didn't make the list because of her small population but she is 96.6% Islamic.

Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah.

Gomer is the Istanbul area of Turkey. This area is called the GOLDEN HORN. Some speculate that the LITTLE HORN comes from here. Togarmah is also in Turkey near the Syrian boarder.

The locations given in Rev 13:2 of lion, leopard, and bear we know are Iran, Syria and Iraq. According to Ezekiel, Turkey, Libya, Ethiopia, and the Muslim parts of Russia (through Georgia) attack Israel. We don't know how strong the Russian force is or if it is Muslim so let's only look at the spiritual composition of the 6 countries that we know are involved in a major assault against Israel.

IRAN - 99.7%, 75 million
IRAQ - 98.9%, 31 million
SYRIA - 92.8%, 21 million
TURKEY - 98.6%, 75 million
LIBYA - 96.6%, 6.3 million
ETHIOPIA - 33.8%, 29 million
RUSSIA - ?? ????

I sorta see a little bit of an ISLAM spiritual stronghold in the nations we know come against Israel.

Not only does ISLAM fit every single description given about the HARLOT, the locations and identities of the nations that attack Israel are mostly ISLAMIC. Now if we look at how they kill those who refuse to covert – they behead – we have a pretty solid GAME, SET and MATCH..

We've both presented our positions and I'm content with that. IOW, I'm not here to argue with you or anybody else for that matter. Just so you know, I've never stated or even implied that I don't think that there will be activity amongst Islamic nations in relation to prophesied end time events. Again, I'd personally be STUNNED if some (if not all) of the "ten horns" or ten kingdoms which give their power to "the beast" aren't Islamic nations...but they're giving their power to "the beast" and they are not "the beast" itself. Again, we mustn't conflate. Anyhow, I've not only been keeping track of Israel's/Jerusalem's dealings with the Papacy for the last 20 something years, but also keeping track of the Papacy's interactions with Muslim nations. Just as an FYI.

 

[PlainWord]

I see 5 heads. How about Hamas and Iraq (ISIS) being the 6th and 7th? Not a lot of angry Catholics in these countries...

 

[mikeuk]

Another scary aspect of isis other than being well funded, is that I read somewhere that a significant part of the soviets erst while plutonium stockpile from disassembled weapons is unaccounted and lost. Since Russia is controlled in part by the influence of organised crime, I have little doubt there is a roaring trade being done in black market Russian weapons.
What if they get hold of plutonium? Suicide bombers would care little for the damage left behind.

 

[Jackson123]

I john 2

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…


Harlot is antichrist. Went out from us/Christian.

Look like Christian but not. Muslim not look like Christian.

 

[Jackson123]

I john 2

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.…


Antichrist exist since apostle John Era.

Muslim start at 610 AD. while I john written around 80 AD.

So when John write this letter, Islam is not exist yet, How then antichrist is islam?

 

[Jackson123]

I see 5 heads. How about Hamas and Iraq (ISIS) being the 6th and 7th? Not a lot of angry Catholics in these countries...

Is the armagedon coalition the Antichrist?

It may under Antichrist but I don't know if it is the Antichrist.

 

[PlainWord]

We've both presented our positions and I'm content with that. IOW, I'm not here to argue with you or anybody else for that matter. Just so you know, I've never stated or even implied that I don't think that there will be activity amongst Islamic nations in relation to prophesied end time events. Again, I'd personally be STUNNED if some (if not all) of the "ten horns" or ten kingdoms which give their power to "the beast" aren't Islamic nations...but they're giving their power to "the beast" and they are not "the beast" itself. Again, we mustn't conflate. Anyhow, I've not only been keeping track of Israel's/Jerusalem's dealings with the Papacy for the last 20 something years, but also keeping track of the Papacy's interactions with Muslim nations. Just as an FYI.

Not arguing with you either brother. It doesn't matter what either of us think. What has been determined to happen, will happen. I have been studying end times prophesy all of my adult life. Things I thought 30 years ago are not the way I see them now. It wasn't long ago that I would have agreed with you concerning the part the Pope/RCC plays in the end times. Now I see them as bit players and mostly victims of run away Islam.

There are two "Beasts" that John discusses in Rev 13. The first one, BEAST from the SEA, is not a person but rather country or group of countries or group of people, or a organization. It is certainly NOT a person as there is no person with 7 heads and 10 horns. I think I've shown pretty conclusively that this BEAST is ISLAMIC or certainly comes from the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran.

The second BEAST comes from the "Earth." This appears to be a person. This "beast" or person causes people to worship the first BEAST or nations or group. So, either a Catholic Leader like the Pope commands people to worship a group of terrorists or an Islamic man does. I'm going with an Islamic Man as the Second Beast.

 

[PlainWord]

Is the armagedon coalition the Antichrist?

It may under Antichrist but I don't know if it is the Antichrist.

I don't use the term AntiChrist because you won't find a singular man called the AntiChrist anywhere that I know of. Daniel calls someone the King of the North. Paul has the Man of Sin and John, near as I can tell, calls him the Beast from the Earth. I think these are all the same person and that this person comes from Turkey.

So, the Man of Sin from Turkey I believe leads the above coalition of Islamic nations against Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Israel, among others. That's what I believe. I think precious little needs to happen first, for instance, I don't see enough conclusive evidence that a third temple has to be built first.

 

[PlainWord]

Another scary aspect of isis other than being well funded, is that I read somewhere that a significant part of the soviets erst while plutonium stockpile from disassembled weapons is unaccounted and lost. Since Russia is controlled in part by the influence of organised crime, I have little doubt there is a roaring trade being done in black market Russian weapons.
What if they get hold of plutonium? Suicide bombers would care little for the damage left behind.

That is the danger of radical Islam left unchecked. They kill out of a warped belief system. I do believe they will start killing in huge numbers as soon as they are able.

 

[keeth]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast...

We all know that Rome is located in the wilderness, right? Hmm. What about MECCA??

He was carried away in the Spirit into the wilderness where he had the vision, not a literal wilderness where the woman of the vision was. The woman he sees sits on many waters which are later in the chapter defined as peoples, nations, and tongues. She also commits fornication with the kings of the earth and is involved with the merchants of the earth. What kind of wilderness is filled with peoples, nations, tongues, merchants, and kings? None. The Vatican is religiously, politically, and economically involved with all of the above.