DO YOU LOVE GODS LAW?

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Who is striving at legalism?

Again, best definition I have seen of legalism...



Oh and about the striving thing...

2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

YOU JOHN! said you was striving to keep the law! did you not?

And Paul is not talking about striving at the law, in fact he calls that a rejection of the gospel...he is talking about the good fight of faith....AND THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!

and again I ask you if you desire to fulfill the law? Why not love as the bible clearly teaches?
 
Mitspa do you believe these passages?

1 John 2 (NASB)

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: [SUP]
6 [/SUP]the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. [SUP]
9 [/SUP]The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [SUP]
11 [/SUP]But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


1 John 5:2-3(NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. "
 
Yes is simple

1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandments, (1)That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2) love one another, as he gave us commandment.

again the point is that only love fulfills the law! teach love, not legalism!
 
Nice circle argument, I love by loving taa daa! ohh and you completely ignored everything written if you just said love = love.... whos love? whos standard?

You deny the Standard of love.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no man anything, except to love one another, for he who loves another has performed the Law. For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Mitspa do you believe these passages?

1 John 2 (NASB)

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: [SUP]
6 [/SUP]the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. [SUP]
9 [/SUP]The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [SUP]
11 [/SUP]But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


1 John 5:2-3(NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. "

Yes is simple

1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandments, (1)That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2) love one another, as he gave us commandment.

again the point is that only love fulfills the law! teach love, not legalism!
 
Love is not explained in the law.

You making this up as you go?

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love is explained in the Law. The Law explains to us how to love...


Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
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Nice circle argument, I love by loving taa daa! ohh and you completely ignored everything written if you just said love = love.... whos love? whos standard?

You deny the Standard of love.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Romans 13:8-10, "Owe no man anything, except to love one another, for he who loves another has performed the Law. For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

How is teaching the fulfillment of the law in love a circular argument? If you really love Gods law you would be teaching love...its really very simple! Since you don't? I must assume you don't really love Gods law!
 
YOU JOHN! said you was striving to keep the law! did you not?


Yep, just as Paul told Timothy to do...

2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

So, looks like your beef is with Paul, not me.

And Paul is not talking about striving at the law, in fact he calls that a rejection of the gospel...he is talking about the good fight of faith....AND THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!

Oh, why didn't I know that it could not be the Law he was speaking of when he said Law? I should have known it really didn't mean what it said.

and again I ask you if you desire to fulfill the law? Why not love as the bible clearly teaches?

OK, I believe that I will...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You do believe that came from the Bible, don't you?
 
Yep, just as Paul told Timothy to do...

2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

So, looks like your beef is with Paul, not me.



Oh, why didn't I know that it could not be the Law he was speaking of when he said Law? I should have known it really didn't mean what it said.



OK, I believe that I will...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You do believe that came from the Bible, don't you?

Right by love...its simple! :) Called the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus...love not legalism fulfills the law !
 
Yes is simple

1Jo 3:23 ¶ And this is his commandments, (1)That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2) love one another, as he gave us commandment.

again the point is that only love fulfills the law! teach love, not legalism!

OK, when you have to resort to misquoting scripture...

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Notice this is singular, you added the s.

So, if you need to resort to misrepresentation here, looks to me like everything you say is suspect.
 
Right by love...its simple! :) Called the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus...love not legalism fulfills the law !

Again, falsely teaching what men have said versus the scripture is legalism. What I have done is quo9te scripture which you have rejected. Explains a lot.
 
Gods law is Spiritual its the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Its not found in the "letter" its not kept through the written code its kept through walking in life and love that flows from the Spirit of grace. The old written code was only a shadow of the Spirit that has been given to those who have believed. The old written code was a legal standard that brought judgment unto death. We have been delivered from that judgment by the judgment that was put upon Christ at His Cross. LIFE and love are the commandments of God. That's Gods law! Do you really live and love the Law of God?
 
Again, falsely teaching what men have said versus the scripture is legalism. What I have done is quo9te scripture which you have rejected. Explains a lot.
I have rejected nothing...Im teaching people to fulfill the law through love! Why does that make you mad? Don't you love Gods law and want to see it fulfilled?
 
Gods law is Spiritual its the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Its not found in the "letter" its not kept through the written code its kept through walking in life and love that flows from the Spirit of grace. The old written code was only a shadow of the Spirit that has been given to those who have believed. The old written code was a legal standard that brought judgment unto death. We have been delivered from that judgment by the judgment that was put upon Christ at His Cross. LIFE and love are the commandments of God. That's Gods law! Do you really live and love the Law of God?

Again, you are teaching what men say, here is what the scripture says...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

And that is a direct quote from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And the word for Law in verse 33 is...

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

God will write the Law in our hearts, not some nebulous idea of what a good person is.
 
OK, when you have to resort to misquoting scripture...

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Notice this is singular, you added the s.

So, if you need to resort to misrepresentation here, looks to me like everything you say is suspect.

Actually the word entole can be translated in the singular or the plural...but its clear they are two commandments there to believe and love...Just as Paul taught that nothing profits but faith working by love. Its don't matter either way the fulfillment of every commandment of God is love! :)
 
I have rejected nothing...Im teaching people to fulfill the law through love! Why does that make you mad? Don't you love Gods law and want to see it fulfilled?

No, you are teaching people to abandon the Law and substitute Lawlessness for true love...

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The source of this anti-Law sentiment is found here...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
Again, you are teaching what men say, here is what the scripture says...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

And that is a direct quote from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And the word for Law in verse 33 is...

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

God will write the Law in our hearts, not some nebulous idea of what a good person is.

Yea if you mean the men who wrote the bible :)
 
No, you are teaching people to abandon the Law and substitute Lawlessness for true love...

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The source of this anti-Law sentiment is found here...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

How is fulfilling the law in love...lawlessness? Thats what the bible clearly teaches! you don't believe the bible?

Why don't you want to see the law fulfilled in love...why does that bother you?
 
Best I can tell legalist just don't love Gods law...they get mad when folks teach others how to fulfill it? Its crazy these people who claim to love the law of God don't want others to know how to fulfill it?
 
How is teaching the fulfillment of the law in love a circular argument? If you really love Gods law you would be teaching love...its really very simple! Since you don't? I must assume you don't really love Gods law!

Here is what I promote

Revelation 12:17

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

FOR this is the love of Yah*

1 John 5:2-3(NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. [SUP]3 [/SUP]*For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. "

1 You shall have no hinder gods In My face.

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) another, other, following
1a) following, further
1b) other, different

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From H0309; properly hinder; generally next, other, etc.:(an-) other (man), following, next, strange.


2 You shall not make for yourselfany carved image; (an idol), in the form of anything in heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them nor serve them; for I, Yahweh your Father, am a jealous Heavenly Father, punishing the children for the lawbreaking ofthe fathers to the third and fourth generation ofthose who hate Me, But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.


3 You shall not take the Name of Yahweh your Heavenly Father to bring it to nothing, for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless who brings dishonor upon or profanes His Name.

7723 - shav
shav: emptiness, vanity - Original Word: שָׁוְא - Part of Speech: Noun Masculine - Transliteration: shav - Phonetic Spelling: (shawv) - Short Definition: vain

7723 - shav
NAS Exhaustive Concordance - Word Origin from an unused word - Definition: emptiness, vanity

7723 - shav
Brown-Driver-Briggs שָׁוְא noun [masculine] emptiness, vanity

7723 - shav
Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood - 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity - 1b) emptiness of speech, lying - 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)



4 Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, But the bSeventh Day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Heavenly Father. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your wife, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor the stranger who dwells within your gates. For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them; and rested the Seventh Day. Therefore, Yahweh blessed the Sabbath Day, and dhallowed it; Yahweh made the Sabbath Day holy.

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest

2663 - katapausis
katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Short Definition: resting, rest
Definition: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.
Word Origin - from katapauó
Definition - rest

Contrast words 4520 from Hebrews 4:9 to all the other "NT" mentions of Sabbath:

Hebrews 4:9, "Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest
1 Occurrence

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Revelation 21:4-8 And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful.And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone--which is the second death."


5 Honor your father and your mother, so your days may be long upon the land which Yahweh your Father is giving you.

Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."


6 You shall not murder.


7 You shall not commit adultery.


8 You shall not steal.



9 You shall not bear false testimony against your neighbor.


10 You shall not covet; lust after, your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that belongs to your neighbor
 
Psalm 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.

I belive everyone can agree with this perhaps :confused:

God Bless