Hebrews, Chapter Seven

[p_rehbein]

it does say of him:

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God

whether he is an astounding type, or an actual manifestation, i really don't think i can say with any amount of authority. if God wanted us to know this for certain, i think He would have made it more clear through the scriptures He gave for us. what i do know is that Jesus is the glory and power of God come in the flesh, and He is the priest with whom i have to do, for sure

Yes.............KEY being "made LIKE UNTO" the Son of God.............. Which shows that he was NOT the Son of God, but "made LIKE UNTO............"



Why I said it's a mystery known only by God...............Bless.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly, I have been working to prove Jesus Christ in these things, each time I advance, takes some time, I hope to show him far better then I can now, but definately these things all pull together into who Christ is and according to what, and what priesthood, and what Moses said, and they are just so vast really.

Love this stuff, Our God rocks!

Yes in deed and HE does not miss a thing.....I stand amazed at the depth of the word and the fact that it is layered to the (enth) degree....!

 

[ISeeYou]

Yes.............KEY being "made LIKE UNTO" the Son of God.............. Which shows that he was NOT the Son of God, but "made LIKE UNTO............"



Why I said it's a mystery known only by God...............Bless.......

Yeah because the fill in the similitude is Jesus Christ, it prophesied according to one without decent, and so made him untraceble

 

[p_rehbein]

The Christ, the Son of God, there is a mystery of the fellowship hid between them , things hard to be uttered Hebrews says, so its telling you these things are difficult to wrap your brain around LOL

You have to spend time with them, you will miss alot in just taking glances at these things, the volume of the book speaks of him.

They are quite beautiful

Why would someone believe I don't spend time in Scripture? So, I only glance at Scripture?

S'ok to have a different view/interpretation/belief, but that doesn't mean that I am any less a student of Scripture than those who differ with me............just saying

 

[p_rehbein]

Yeah because the fill in the similitude is Jesus Christ, it prophesied according to one without decent, and so made him untraceble

One opinion, but not stated in Scripture..................Nowhere in Scripture does it say that he was Jesus Christ........or that he was part of the Godhead............nowhere............sorry

 

[p_rehbein]

Everything you posted in Comment #17, only proves my point...............

 

[ISeeYou]

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness,and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Thats what his Kingdom in the Holy Ghost is the righteousness peace and joy in the same

 

[ISeeYou]

One opinion, but not stated in Scripture..................Nowhere in Scripture does it say that he was Jesus Christ........or that he was part of the Godhead............nowhere............sorry

Hebrews speaks of these things which are definately hard to be uttered sure, I dont argue with what I consider pearls though, I am fine with however you are able to see a thing, even if it be different from how I see it.

Be blessed in your knowledge

 

[p_rehbein]

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salembrought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness,and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Thats what his Kingdom in the Holy Ghost is the righteousness peace and joy in the same

Sorry, I missed where it said: And Melchisidec, who is Jesus Christ, God the Son, King of Salem brought forth wine which he had made from water...........

He is surely a mystery of Scripture.............but one HAS to WANT to read into Scripture to believe he was Jesus the Christ in the form of man BEFORE Jesus the Christ was born in Bethlehem..............you have to WANT to........that's called reading into Scripture is it not?

Anyway................I don't want into a big todo over this.............so God bless...........

We agree to disagree in a spirit of Christian love and fellowship

oops........one last part............that tithing thing does not prove anything............tithing was common practice.........people tithed to Abram, did that make Abram Jesus Christ? Forget the tithing part as evidence...........just saying

 

[ISeeYou]

Abraham was a prophet, Gen 20:7

And God says how he has spoken by them in Hosea

Hosea 12:10I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

He used similitudesSo when Melchisedec met Abraham

Heb 7:15 And it is yetfar more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

Who some see as Christ (others not)

 

[Elin]

Heb 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Some do not believe a change was made but that the OT law is still in effect.

Well, the priesthood was not based on, established by, the Levitical law (7:11),
it was established by ordination of Moses.
There is no Levitical law establishing the priesthood.

Rather, the law was based on the priesthood (7:11).

The "change of the law" being spoken of is the change of the Mosaic law (7:18-19)
which was based on the Levitical priesthood (7:11),
which priesthood was removed, necessitating a change of the Mosaic law on which it was based.

 

[ISeeYou]

Sorry, I missed where it said: And Melchisidec, who is Jesus Christ, God the Son, King of Salem brought forth wine which he had made from water...........

He is surely a mystery of Scripture.............but one HAS to WANT to read into Scripture to believe he was Jesus the Christ in the form of man BEFORE Jesus the Christ was born in Bethlehem..............you have to WANT to........that's called reading into Scripture is it not?

Anyway................I don't want into a big todo over this.............so God bless...........

We agree to disagree in a spirit of Christian love and fellowship

oops........one last part............that tithing thing does not prove anything............tithing was common practice.........people tithed to Abram, did that make Abram Jesus Christ? Forget the tithing part as evidence...........just saying

Thats fine by me, my understanding is not yours and we will see things differently

 

[Elin]

The Law is not done away, it was changed...

Heb 7:12: For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

In the Greek, "changed" is metathesis, which means "remove."

The Levitical priesthood was removed, and of necessity, the Mosaic law based on it (Heb 7:11)
was thereby also removed, as stated in

Heb 7:18-19:

"The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect)"

Changed to accommodate a Jew in the Priesthood.

Levite Jews were always in the Levitical priesthood.
No change would be needed to accommodate a Jew.

There is no priesthood apart from the order of Melchizedek,
of which Jesus is the eternal High Priest.

 

[Elin]

Christ, who was Melchisidec, was the High Priest of God. He "loaned' that Priesthood to Aaron as a shadow or type of what He did and does today.

Nowhere does Scripture state that Christ was Melchizedek, nor that
he loaned the priesthood of Melchizedek to Aaron.

That is bizarre.

Scripture states Christ is of the order of Melchizedek.

Not the same thing.

 

[ISeeYou]

He could only be high priest of the order of Melchezidek given what Moses said of the priesthood (in respect to the tribe of Judah) which was nothing.

God has spoken by the ministry of the prophets and has used similitudes by the same (even as Abraham was a prophet) who met Melchezidek (the order of which priesthood) our Lord would fill (being before the levitical priesthood) still in the loins of Abraham.

Melchezidek then (shown as priest of the most high God) is made after the similitude of the one who would arise after, who is the Son of God, who would fill those shoes in that order (and not fill the shoes in the order of Aaron).

For that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

The order pertains to the one who has an endless life, no beginning of days or end of days

Untracable, as he was made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Speaking of him who was to come

Given death is not a factor in that preisthood (abiding a priest continually)

Of Melchezidek

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; (((but made like unto))) the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

The law having shadow of things to come not the very image of things,

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Therefore even within the similitude (God uses to speak by the prophets) Melchezidek had to be made like unto the Son of God (who was to come) simply to testify beforehand of the priesthood (to be spoken for afterwards) where beginning of days (and the end thereof) would not apply, just as he is a priest continually (where death doesnt interupt the oath to the same) and thats exactly where Christ Jesus fits in perfectly.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Jesus' genealogy traces back through Abraham to Adam, while Melchizedek , a contemporary of Abraham, has no genealogy, no kinship to the Abrahamic line of man.

He was a gentile like Abraham, though not recorded with lineage even after the common manner of all tribes, including gentiles.

Melchizedek was a priest, though a man, an earthly king, as earthly in being as Aaron who was yet to be born 4 centuries later. The priestly order he was of is the order that Jesus is High Priest of now, that order of priesthood existing long before the order of Aaron under Moses, who was not of an eternal priesthood, but of a mortal priesthood. While the Aaronic priesthood is gone, the eternal order remains forever.

While neither Melchizedek nor Abraham were Jews, both being gentiles, Jesus was a Jew, offering to save Israel, to include them to be immersed in that eternal priesthood. In spite of their rejection God has sworn to do that anyway at the end, while gentiles enjoy entering into that eternal priesthood as priest and kings in the Kingdom of Heaven, which shall be yielded to the greater Kingdom of God.

Hebrews 7 compares the earthly order to the heavenly order, proving the eternal one of Jesus is superior in every way.

 

[ISeeYou]

Jesus created the world when did he become a Jew?

That would be long after he appared to Abraham no?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Jesus created the world when did he become a Jew?

That would be long after he appared to Abraham no?

By law he became a Jew upon being born to Jews, and servant to the Sinaitic Law. The Hebrews, a small part of the flesh descendants of Abraham though his son Isaac, prophesied by their father Isaac to be mighty tribes, became one nation "Israel" in Exodus the night of the Passover in Egypt, whose "constitution" came at Mt. Sinai. Meanwhile, many other tribes in the world descended from Abraham, including the 12 princes of Arabic nations through Ishmael.

I love these things!
But before Jesus was born a human we have this said by him in John 8:57-59 (KJV)
[SUP]57 [/SUP] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[SUP]59 [/SUP] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

It can't be said that God the Word could not appear in a form like men, being one of the 3 "men" that came to Abraham concerning Sodom, they being the Lord and two angels. He also appeared in bodily form to the 70 elders of Israel who went up with Moses to have dinner with the Lord whose feet rested upon a sea of sapphire, then again to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Exodus 24:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


I just love that too. Our amazing Lord! Jesus went from being "in" on the creation (among the "Us" in Gen 1:26), to becoming a man on earth and dying for man's sin, to being the eternal High Priest in heaven at the right hand of the Father.

 

[ISeeYou]

Yeah he is before all things, as God created all things by Christ and then in the fulness of times he was also made of a woman made under the law (of which priesthood) was in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedk met him.

They are asking him (Jesus) if he was greater then Abraham because to them Abraham was the greatest, but it seems to be hebrews that takes up that same argument but in Melchizedek saying, Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And this priesthood (or the one in the similitude of Mechizedek) who met Abraham (and blessed him as the priest of the most High God) trumps the levitical priesthood which only later come out of the loins of Abraham.

 

[SeaBass]

The Law is not done away, it was changed...

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Changed to accommodate a Jew in the Priesthood.

Heb 7:11 "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"

Heb 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

From v11, the Levitical Priesthood was the foundation, basis of the law of Moses and it was from this Priesthood foundation that the people received the law of Moses. So when the Levitical Priesthood fell that automatically meant the law of Moses also fell with it:

"It (Priesthood) was in fact the foundation of the Old Economy, and the whole Law of Moses stood and fell with it" - Milligan.

The Priesthood was "the pillar upon which the Mosaic system rests,........ with its fall is included the whole constitution, not merely the ceremonial" - Hewitt.

Verse 11 also points out that if perfection [justification] could be had by that Priesthood and law then there would be no need for another priesthood and law.

Since the Levitical Priesthood was the pillar, the foundation of the the law of Moses, v12 points to the fact that a change in Priesthood meant a change in law. Thayer defines change as a transfer from one place to another, there was a transfer from the OT law to the NT law of Christ, form the OT Levitical Priesthood and law of Moses to the NT Priesthood (1 Pet 2:9) and Christ's NT law (Gal 6:2)

For Christ to be a Priest required a change in law.