lets talk about gay people!!!

[ForthAngel]

Yes let'ts equate gay people with pedophiles, and those who do weird stuff with animals...that's going to go over so well. It's also a tested strategy used throughout history to demonize enimies. That line of thinking is beneath your station.

No. Let's equate gay sexual relations as sin. That is what it is whether you want to believe it or not. It is a sin just as beastiality or pedophilia is a sin. Just as premarital heterosexual sex is a sin. To try and justify one of these means we must justify all of them because they are all condemned by God and not one is justifiable by scripture.

To force gay sexual relations into a "godly marriage" position means we must by default allow the others as long as marital guidelines are followed as nogard stated. As long as the person doesn't sleep with the child or the animal before marriage and respects that child or animal until after marriage, there is no sin (according to his logic regarding homosexuality). You cannot justify one while condemning the other.

All are labeled and condemned by scripture whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[The_highwayman]

The Church is supposed to be a congregation of saints, not sinners.

Thus the major problem with the "church" today. If you only allow saints through your doors, you are not a church, your a country club of spiritual pharisees.

 

[nogard]

I think people need to really understand that same sex attraction is not a choice.

Do you think everyone who is gay WANTS to be gay? Do you not realize that teenage suicide among LGTB youth has a been a growing concern for years now? People would give their right arm not to have the same-sex attractions they have. And it may not have anything to do with religious reasons. Ultimately, some of them feel so isolated and defeated and alone that they take their own lives.

The idea that this somehow is a choice that you can make makes no sense in light of this. And this has been scientifically proven. I mean, they stuck people in MRI machines and flashed images of men and women in front of them. It was discovered that when someone sees someone/something physically/sexually attractive, a certain part of the brain buzzes with activity. This same part of the brain buzzes with activity when a gay person seems an attractive same-sex individual. What we are hard-wired to find sexually attractive is beyond our control.

If it is not beyond our control, why is it that people who don't want to be gay can't just start being attracted to the opposite sex?

 

[ForthAngel]

I think people need to really understand that same sex attraction is not a choice.

Do you think everyone who is gay WANTS to be gay? Do you not realize that teenage suicide among LGTB youth has a been a growing concern for years now? People would give their right arm not to have the same-sex attractions they have. And it may not have anything to do with religious reasons. Ultimately, some of them feel so isolated and defeated and alone that they take their own lives.

The idea that this somehow is a choice that you can make makes no sense in light of this. And this has been scientifically proven. I mean, they stuck people in MRI machines and flashed images of men and women in front of them. It was discovered that when someone sees someone/something physically/sexually attractive, a certain part of the brain buzzes with activity. This same part of the brain buzzes with activity when a gay person seems an attractive same-sex individual. What we are hard-wired to find sexually attractive is beyond our control.

If it is not beyond our control, why is it that people who don't want to be gay can't just start being attracted to the opposite sex?

The "science has proven it" statement is a lie. This is propaganda by the LGBT community. As far as choice, we are not talking about the attraction, but the act of sex based on that attraction. Big difference in preferring one gender to another and acting out that preference in sexual intercourse, or even mentally or alone with masturbation. It is defined by God as a sin, just as premarital heterosexual intercourse is, or any lust.

People wanna be gay and act out their fantasies? Go for it. But don't try and force feed it to the rest of us who don't think it's natural or biblical. I have two gay friends and a couple gay family members. Do I hate them? No, not at all. But the LGBT community has this agenda to force everyone to be ok with this and wants us to not call it out for what it really is, a sin.

As far as suicide. LGBT are not the only troubled teens. All kinds of people commit suicide. so this is not a valid argument. Again, we are not discussing the predisposition of being attracted to the opposite sex, but the act of sexual intercourse itself, in or outside of a so-called marriage.

 

[Desdichado]

This has to be, without a doubt, the best thread title ever conceived by man.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

I think people need to really understand that same sex attraction is not a choice.

Do you think everyone who is gay WANTS to be gay? Do you not realize that teenage suicide among LGTB youth has a been a growing concern for years now? People would give their right arm not to have the same-sex attractions they have. And it may not have anything to do with religious reasons. Ultimwe sately, some of them feel so isolated and defeated and alone that they take their own lives.

The idea that this somehow is a choice that you can make makes no sense in light of this. And this has been scientifically proven. I mean, they stuck people in MRI machines and flashed images of men and women in front of them. It was discovered that when someone sees someone/something physically/sexually attractive, a certain part of the brain buzzes with activity. This same part of the brain buzzes with activity when a gay person seems an attractive same-sex individual. What we are hard-wired to find sexually attractive is beyond our control.

If it is not beyond our control, why is it that people who don't want to be gay can't just start being attracted to the opposite sex?

Everything can be changed one way or another. Every sinful desire can be driven out by love and truth and the Holy Spirit. I used to be attracted to using drugs (meth, cocaine, ecstasy, cigarettes, marijuana, ketamine), stealing, lying, living as long as possible/avoiding death, being rebellious (i guess i still am but its now the natural rebelliousness that a man of God exudes towards the ways of the world), coveting worldly things, looking cool or tough, other mens wives and all sorts of other sexual perversions which id rather not share in this particular post, committing perfect crimes, committing perfect revenge etc. I was "hardwired" for all these self seeking behaviors and thoughts at one time. I struggled for a long time trying to be "good" and change these things.Then one day God showed me how to truly walk with Christ and the Holy Spirit transformed me (seemed almost instantaneous). Also, now I know a lot more about why Gods ways are good and the reasons that He has to hate the things He hates. It all makes sense to me now and I don't desire things which lead to death and destruction for myself and everyone God has placed in my life. Its no longer all about me. Its no longer "mean old distant God" trying to control us and use us as pawns in some huge trivial spiritual game of chess. Now my desires are to do what is good for the sake of doing good, to bring about life in this world of death, to become like our Father and be a mature loving spiritual being (one of His children). So ya, I think that we can change a couple of connections in our ever evolving brain and if we cant God sure can

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Eh... How about one more. I used to be hardwired to hate my "enemies"

 

[mcubed]

I remember one day at work a friend of mine who is homosexual looked at me and point blank asked me if being gay was sin. I said yes. Then I said all of us are sinners who need a savior. Being gay is not the sin that will send you to hell rejecting Y-shua is. Getting him saved was my priority, not the battle of being gay. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin. G-d has delivered me and changed me so drastically over the +25 years I have been saved. I personally know many delivered homosexuals, G-d can, will and does deal with their sin just like He deals with mine and changes me. One of the greatest Scriptures is where Y-shua was talking to the Samaritan woman and asked her for some water. She asked Him if He was the Messiah, then turns right around and said we worship on this mountain but you Jews say we are to worship on that mountain. The way Y-shua responded was I will give you living water that you will never thirst again. (My paraphrase by memory, it’s in the Gospels) He did not get into a social or political debate with her; He brought the conversation back to her need of Him. That is what we are to do bring people to their need of Him.

 

[David_1]

Let's talk about gay people!!!!

LOL.

Like there isn't several dozen threads about this daily.

Oh well, what ever distracts people from questioning what the Religious Right leaders are actually doing with corporations.

Because Lord knows Jesus never spoke about the sins of the rich and talked constantly about that 3% of the population that aren't hetro.

 

[JOHN1513]

unbelievers
[SUP]Rev. 20:12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]Rev 20:15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;[SUP]2 [/SUP]By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

They need to believe the gospel first, that God can help them stop sinning. Some sex (gay or lesb.) is one of many sins an unbeliever can do.

Believers
[SUP]Romans 1:24 [/SUP]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

It's a sin and that person need to be put out of the local group of believers. You do this in love for that believer will stop sinning

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
[SUP]7[/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[SUP]2 Corinthians 2:6 [/SUP]Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

unbelievers
[SUP]Rev. 20:12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]Rev 20:15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;[SUP]2 [/SUP]By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

They need to believe the gospel first, that God can help them stop sinning. Some sex (gay or lesb.) is one of many sins an unbeliever can do.

Believers
[SUP]Romans 1:24 [/SUP]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

It's a sin and that person need to be put out of the local group of believers. You do this in love for that believer will stop sinning

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
[SUP]7[/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[SUP]2 Corinthians 2:6 [/SUP]Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

Now if these verses were understood properly, thet would be seen in the same manner revelation speaks of when it mentions fornication.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

OK so then HOW do we love them? HOW do we approach them? We can't be like "Well you'll never get married and you'll be alone forever so good luck!" That's an awful idea! So what do we do then?

We have a lesbian lady working with us and what I did was I told her that I love her as a fellow human and that I will never judge her but because of my religion I can never agree with the way she leads her life. We can still respect each others views even if we don't agree with them.

My brother was gay and at first it was difficult for my parents to accept but in the end even my dad made his peace and my brother knew he had a safehaven with our family.

 

[JOHN1513]

[SUP]1 Cor. 6:13 [/SUP]Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Fornication is someone having sex (any sex) outside of marriage. Marriage is between a man and women, not same sex partner.

[SUP]Rom. 1:24 [/SUP]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

Fornication is someone having sex (any sex) outside of marriage. Marriage is between a man and women, not same sex partner.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

How is fornication defined in Revelation? If it is the same, then this one literal woman has to have broken some kind of record for having sex with the most men!

Also based on your definition, how do you then define marriage. Do I need a "certificate" to be officially married? Does another person give the two their blessings for it to be legitimate? Can I just move in with a female with us both simply declaring our marriage to each other?

 

[JOHN1513]

[SUP]Matthew 19:4 [/SUP]And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

[SUP]Matthew 19:4 [/SUP]And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

Malachi 2


14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

What type of marriage is this?

 

[JOHN1513]

messenger_of_fire if the Bible teaches other then a marriage between a man and a woman please put a verse.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

messenger_of_fire if the Bible teaches other then a marriage between a man and a woman please put a verse.

Your friend
Jeremiah Howell

The bible does not define marriage as what we believe it to be at all. As stated in Malachi, all of mankind is married. It is a union of the body and the spirit.

By your definition, what is the difference between male and female who is "married" as compared to a male and a female who is "fornicating?" Wouldn't that be consider marriage too?

 

[ChristInUs]

The bible does not define marriage as what we believe it to be at all. As stated in Malachi, all of mankind is married. It is a union of the body and the spirit.

By your definition, what is the difference between male and female who is "married" as compared to a male and a female who is "fornicating?" Wouldn't that be consider marriage too?

Sorry I'm knew here but God created them both male and female and told them to be fruitful and multiply. Homo's can't carry out Gods word.

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

Sorry I'm knew here but God created them both male and female and told them to be fruitful and multiply. Homo's can't carry out Gods word.

There is more than one way or one thing that needs to multiply. And it is YOU that is created BOTH male (your body) and female (your spirit).