Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[Jeff_56]

re "How do you not use the carnal mind and flesh to work at keeping the commandments?"

as it is written,
crucify or renew it. or let it be crucified or renewed in yahshua hamashiach. he gives a new life, a born again pure and holy spirit, a life washed clean of sin (by the blood of the lamb and by his word) --- a totally changed life from the past sinful life.

if the life is not a new creation, doing what is right, then it is not a new creation, doing what is right. simple.

if the life is a new creation (in christ jesus) doing what is right, then it is a new creation, in christ jesus, doing what is right. his doing. simple. and i am willingly and joyously obedient to HIM. willingly and joyously walking in union with HIM. simple. and all by and in and through his grace, as he has purposed, as yahweh planned long ago.

it is more simple than not running red lights, and more simple than keeping the other traffic laws of the land. (because the laws of man aren't necessarily good , right, or even sensible; all of yahweh's law is perfect and complete, refreshing the soul).

 

[Jeff_56]

p.s. one of the most often idolatrous practices of men >> disobeying the simple instruction >>

Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of ...

biblehub.com/exodus/20-4.htm‎

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness ('any'; i.e. 'avatar' included) of anything that
is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under ...


and
Leviticus 5 CEB - Unintentional sin - If you sin: by not - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+5...‎

[SUP]5[/SUP] at that point, when you have become guilty of sin in one of these ways, you ...
[SUP]17[/SUP] If you sin by breaking any of the Lord's commands, but without realizing it, ...

 

[john832]

What do you think you are using to explain what you just explained???

The carnal mind is what falters. The carnal mind is what falls into unbelief.

How do you not use the carnal mind and flesh to work at keeping the commandments?

Uh, this...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[john832]

None of the law is abolished. The Lord didn't come to abolish the law. He came to fulfill it.

It can't be our tutor to bring us to Christ if it doesn't exist.

explain to me what it means to fulfill the Law.

 

[john832]

I also assume if someone stole something of yours, you would offer them more of your belongings, with nothing but love in your heart for them. If someone slapped you on one cheek, you would turn the other with nothing but love in your heart for the person who hit you. If someone asked you to give them money, you would give it, without minding if you never received anything back.

And you wouldn't do this?

This is Christianity on a higher level than I am used to seeing. You must be very blessed indeed in your walk. And as you obey the commandments, I assume you have answered honestly

Perhaps you are not associating with the right people.

 

[Jeff_56]

And you wouldn't do this?
Perhaps you are not associating with the right people.

when i was first saved a long long time ago, as we simple-minded humans figure time.... , i thought it was normal to live right once saved,
and to stop living sinfully. (i had good examples to see their lives, abiding in and seeking always jesus' way)

gradually, i saw it is true "bad company corrupts good morals" -- and as long as someone associates/ 'fellowships'(if you can call it that) with those who don't repent, but just serve god with their lips and not with their hearts,
they continue to
think and to be encouraged in living carnally and worldly (being corrupt) as if god accepts that kind of life (life without repentance).

as always, the lives of those living right with god are few, while the road comfortable to destruction is wide and well populated.... this is not an indictment of any individual, as if they are forever lost, but an encouragement to keep on seeking that which is true and right with god as he permits.

 

[michael56]

Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5)possibly some in their exuberance are forgetting to mention this!

 

[michael56]

It would also be beneficial to state the Christian can have no confidence in themselves(their flesh) to live an ever holier life(Phil3:3) They glory in what Christ Jesus has done for them and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit evermore in their lives. I haven't noticed this being stated thus far, as people are proclaiming they obey the Ten Commandments and all of Jesus teaching. I am sure people are not meaning to try and infer they have achieved obedience in and of themselves, it is just an oversight

 

[4enlightment]

nice verse shall we add some context to it?

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

notice the words, shadow of "things to come"

Now aside from the Fact that there are different Sabbaths in the law. lets address the one you are inferring and then ask a simple question:

here is the Sabbath of the commandment:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


and why was it given:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now that simple question, Does the Sabbath point forward or backwards?

Yes you guessed it, the very words point backwards to:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So there we have it according to the law, the 7th day Sabbath points back to creation not forward to Christ.

And If you knew the law which Ill leave you to study yourself you would also know that there are other Sabbaths outside of the 7th day Sabbath that do indeed point to Christ and the rest that comes through His sacrifice.

So thank you for illustrating my point so clearly. As I said its easy to twist the scripture when one does not understand the law.

Yes, the Sabbath is just shadows of how it is going to be when a soul is in God's presence. You wouldn't have to worry about anything no more, because you'll be taken care of like He has taken care of the lilies in the fields, they doesn't have to labor at all. There is not going to be one single soul that is tainted with evil, not even a single evil thought; that is why on the Sabbath, that a person are not to be holding onto any grudges that had happen in the past, because on the Sabbath, it must be kept clean from any kinds of evil, Holy. And entering into the next rest, is the Jubilee, that a soul must forgiven everyone, debt and all. If the pharisees would have had practiced the latter without neglecting the former, they would been easy for them to forgive someone that has sinned against them. But now, we doesn't need the Sabbath to get us to put our trust in God, and or to know how to forgive others; we just work on it daily. well i'm going to let you go back to sleep, which I know that you love to sleep without gaining any knowledge, but to rest.

 

[Jeff_56]

biblegateway ................ RSV 1 Chronicles 28

"....IF you seek me, you will find me.
...
know the God of your father, and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off for ever...."

 

[4enlightment]

The word faith here is as follows:
G4102
πίστις
pistis
pis'-tis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Showing that, it could be said that the just shall live by moral conviction, to which the law is not moral conviction, but rather Truth to what is right.

It is stating that the both, the law or faith, whatever a person has chosen to follow, they will live by them; like for an instance, if a person live by the sword, dies by the sword; and so if a person live by faith, dies by it also. And so if someone lives by the laws, will die by it, which means that they aren't free from the laws and they will be judge by it.

 

[john832]

Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5)possibly some in their exuberance are forgetting to mention this!

Ah, and you think it doesn't take faith to tell an employer that you will not work on the Sabbath when he tells you that if you don't show up Saturday, you don't have a job?

Been there, done that.

 

[john832]

It would also be beneficial to state the Christian can have no confidence in themselves(their flesh) to live an ever holier life(Phil3:3) They glory in what Christ Jesus has done for them and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit evermore in their lives. I haven't noticed this being stated thus far, as people are proclaiming they obey the Ten Commandments and all of Jesus teaching. I am sure people are not meaning to try and infer they have achieved obedience in and of themselves, it is just an oversight

So, who has said that they must have confidence in themselves?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[notuptome]

Nope, they died and are awaiting a resurrection.

That is true of their body but Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Jesus when He was absent from His body took all of the souls in Abrahams bosom into heaven to await the resurrection of their bodies at His coming for His church.

Luke 16 Jesus clearly gives teaching that there is awareness in the grave. The bible does not teach soul sleep nor does it teach annihilation of the soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[michael56]

Ah, and you think it doesn't take faith to tell an employer that you will not work on the Sabbath when he tells you that if you don't show up Saturday, you don't have a job?

Been there, done that.

I know two people who insist you must go to church on a Saturday. One of them-as you, refused a job that would give them good money as it meant them working Saturdays. However, both of these people slept with people outside of marriage and had little, if any conscience in doing so. One of them had many partners-the one who gave up the chance of a job with good money as it meant working Saturdays. Both of them insisted the whole law of God must be followed.
I find that's the main problem with those who are most insistent the law be fully obeyed, and place the most emphasis on that. Romans chapter 7 is the most revealing chapter of Paul's letters in my opinion

 

[Grandpa]

explain to me what it means to fulfill the Law.

It means to do the work of Salvation.

 

[john832]

That is true of their body but Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

You think that might have been a figure of speech?

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Was he a disembodied spirit here?

Jesus when He was absent from His body took all of the souls in Abrahams bosom into heaven to await the resurrection of their bodies at His coming for His church.

He did?

So when He said this, He was only kidding?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Let's see...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Now Paul says that the body you die with is not what is reunited in the resurrection...

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Now this does not say the body, it says THEY lived not again. They were not alive.

Luke 16 Jesus clearly gives teaching that there is awareness in the grave. The bible does not teach soul sleep nor does it teach annihilation of the soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Luke 16 is a parable and has been discussed many times.

 

[john832]

I know two people who insist you must go to church on a Saturday. One of them-as you, refused a job that would give them good money as it meant them working Saturdays. However, both of these people slept with people outside of marriage and had little, if any conscience in doing so. One of them had many partners-the one who gave up the chance of a job with good money as it meant working Saturdays. Both of them insisted the whole law of God must be followed.

And that is germane to this discussion how? I know of Sunday keepers who have done the same despicable deeds as well as atheists who have. That has no bearing whatsoever on whether the seventh day Sabbath has been abolished.

I find that's the main problem with those who are most insistent the law be fully obeyed, and place the most emphasis on that. Romans chapter 7 is the most revealing chapter of Paul's letters in my opinion

OK, in your opinion, what part of the Law are we free to disobey? Please enlighten us.

 

[john832]

It means to do the work of Salvation.

Please tell me what that is. Explain to me what the work of salvation is.

 

[michael56]

The law God requires a person to keep is written on their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion by the Holy Spirit, that, along with Jesus dying for our sins are the two core components on which the new covenant hinges. Therefore, you know in your heart the law God requires you to keep, and if you do not keep it, you have heartfelt conviction of your sin. That is how to know which law God desires you to keep.
Incidentally, I have never, in any church I personally have ever been to known of people having such a problem with sexual sin as I do in a church where let us say the literal letter of the law is stressed vehemently.