Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

  • Thread starter Thread starter pengy
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It is the heart that matters to God, not legalism. You can faultlessly keep legalistic laws but not know God according to Jesus. Paul faultlessly kept the legalistic law as a Pharisee but said at the same time he was the chief of sinners. Sadly, as is described in rom ch7, many go to church today and end up consumed by concupiscence. I was told once half the sex addicts in the US had at one time been to ''holiness'' churches. If only those poor souls had understood the Gospel message of grace given to Paul to preach, such a staggeringly high figure would not have ended up as sex addicts, the power is in grace to live a holy life, not legalism
 
It is the heart that matters to God, not legalism. You can faultlessly keep legalistic laws but not know God according to Jesus.


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

the only way to "keep" a Law of the Creator is to do it in truth, any other way is not keeping it.

By this we know;

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Paul faultlessly kept the legalistic law as a Pharisee but said at the same time he was the chief of sinners.

He was faultlessly keeping the Law when he was murdering followers of Messiah? Or do you completely misunderstaand what Paul is saying when he said;

Philippians 3

2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

Blameless to yahweh or blamless "as touching the Law as a pharisee"

maybe you will take a min and understand:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
 
How well must a person obey God's laws to attain Heaven? Must they only obey 10% ?, 30% obedience? 50% obedience, is that enough? Or 90% is that acceptable to inherit eternal life? If you do not know the answer, how can you have any confidence of eternal life when you die? You would have to fear you may not have obeyed well enough and maybe cast into hell wouldn't you?
 
Last edited:
Paul believed eternal life hinged on obedience to the law in the following:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom 7:7-11
 
How well must a person obey God's laws to attain Heaven? Must they only obey 10% ?, 30% obedience? 50% obedience, is that enough? Or 90% is that acceptable? If you do not know the answer, how can you have any confidence of eternal life when you die? You would have to fear you may not have obeyed well enough and maybe cast into hell wouldn't you?

We need to refer to Scripture, and no not only one or two but the whole thing. (here are a few because we cant post the whole book)

1 Yahchanan (John) 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin* (*sin is the transgression of the Law) still live in it?"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for *sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Our High Priest in the NT is not levitical priest, but the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek:

Hebrews 4:1-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."


1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

There is a mountain between "pharisaic legalism" and "licentious grace" is is called the Word of the Most High.

Yahdah 1:3-4, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write to you about the common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you, and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once, for all, delivered to the saints. For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
 
We need to refer to Scripture, ."

Absolutely


For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP][e][/SUP][SUP]11 [/SUP]Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith Gal3:10&11
For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless,[SUP]15 [/SUP]because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression ROM 4:14&15
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10

The pass mark is 100% perfect obedience


 
Rom 3:31 is a great scripture, it mirrors Rom 6:14
Do we then nullify the law by this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ not obedience to the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law(that we are required to keep)
 
Absolutely


For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP][e][/SUP][SUP]11 [/SUP]Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith Gal3:10&11
For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless,[SUP]15 [/SUP]because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression ROM 4:14&15
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10

The pass mark is 100% perfect obedience



Yeah I dont think we are so far apart! :)

Acts 26:20 English Standard Version
"but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."

This is like a fuller explanation of Rom 3:31 IMO:

Psalm 119:4-8, "You have commanded your precepts, that we should fully obey them. Oh that my ways were steadfast to obey your statutes! Then I wouldn't be disappointed, when I consider all of your commandments. I will give thanks to you with uprightness of heart, when I learn your righteous judgments. I will observe your statutes. Don't utterly forsake me."

Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your Salvation always say: May Yahweh be magnified!"
 
"It is the heart that matters to God, not legalism."

that's perfectly in line with his word. without a pure heart, no one can see God.

with a pure heart, one does not sin. so simple, what's the beef ?
 
"It is the heart that matters to God, not legalism."

that's perfectly in line with his word. without a pure heart, no one can see God.

with a pure heart, one does not sin. so simple, what's the beef ?

I think all the back and forth came from when Yah says "the 7th day" if that is changed or not, he other stuff was stemming from that, but not directly spoken on, i *think.
 
"It is the heart that matters to God, not legalism."

that's perfectly in line with his word. without a pure heart, no one can see God.

with a pure heart, one does not sin. so simple, what's the beef ?

Could you explain something to me. Someone in this debate, who thinks like you and believes God's commands are not burdensome or hard to follow, believes the Apostle Paul in Rom 7:14-25 is speaking of his life as a Christian. Paul was definatley sinning a lot in those verses. He said he was sold as a slave to sin. If you also believe in ch7:14-25 Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian,(you may not) I can only assume you, as well as the other man believe you far better uphold God's laws than could the Apostle Paul
 
Yeah I dont think we are so far apart! :)

Acts 26:20 English Standard Version
"but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), performing deeds in keeping with their repentance."

This is like a fuller explanation of Rom 3:31 IMO:
"

The penalty of sin, brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin. If you live under a righteousness of obedience to the law the penalty for sin remains. If you live under grace the penalty has been removed. Hence the following:

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Rom 3:31

[SUP] [/SUP]For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace Rom 6:14

[SUP] [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. Rom 7:5

The problem is today, many stress the need to obey the law to attain Heaven. They may do so with good intention but it is wrong. For when you stress a person must obey the law to inherit eternal life, you are saying a person has a righteousness before God of obedience to the law. That negates what Christ did for the Christian at Calvary. Sadly, it has left many who go to church in the position Paul was in as a Pharisee in Rom 7:7-11, it is truly tragic how often that happens today
It is also futile/pointless to stress law, for as you agree, the law God desires a person to keep is writtwn on their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion. They are only too painfully aware of their shortcomings before God. Those who are humble, and have honest estimation of themselves are not helped, or being shown love by those who proclaim they easily uphold God's laws. Therefore, they are failing themselves to keep the second most important commandment on which the whole law hangs.
 
2 Peter 3:17 [SUP] [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

I would say this is the error of the wicked;

Romans 10:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
 
I notice that very few people when putting down the law never or next to never show their point from the Old Testament. I wish people who clearly no nothing of the law would stop talking about it and twisting the new Testament writings because of their clear lack of understanding concerning what the law is and its purpose and its relevance. Yes I know you can quote Paul's writings so can we. Yes you can quote Jesus so can we. The problem is not what they say but in your understanding of what they say. and that problem is because you have never learned form the schoolmaster, you skipped the tutor. You tried to attend the advanced classes without first gaining a proper foundation. This also shows in that this group seldom next to never address any texts that go against their view they just simply post another scripture that they think fits their view. ever ignoring some texts and accepting the ones they like. I am not saying this to be mean I encourage you to go back and learn the Old Testament message, its about Jesus.

the apostles preached Jesus Christ crucified to Gentiles far far away from the land of Israel, who did not know the Old Testament.
the council at Jerusalem made clear the Gentiles were not under the law of Moses.
yes we need to understand what God has said about sinners and this is found in the law... but the Gentiles did not need to understand everything in Leviticus Deuteronomy numbers judges etc . to be saved.

I apologize if I'm misunderstanding but your gospel appears to be

understand and read the entire Old Testament every statute ordinance command and ritual observances and presumably obey them, then you might possibly be saved.

it seems to be so common that some assume that the majority of Christians don't own a copy of the Old Testament, and wouldn't read it if they did. this would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous
 
'all the back and forth' and all the likewise threads/posts/multitude of sin is not just about what yah says/said/what is written,
but
even
more seriously, is yahshua lord and master as well as savior messiah, or not?

the few i've met in person all my life of whom yahshua is lord and master and savior messiah don't argue against the truth.

questions, sure, but not fighting willfully against jesus and his disciples, rather learning from him and his word what is true.

i.e. as it is written, don't keep hitting your head on a stone wall - after a few or several admonishments if someone shows no indication of wanting to learn truth, just plain stop replying to them and answer instead those who are seeking to learn. oh, sometimes after a long time they might still 'come around', by sheer grace, and that is always prayed for and hoped for as god permits. but remember they have a lot of 'support' in error, and unless they chose to and want to seek truth, ... well, the outcome is not good for most (has not been 'good for most' the last 2000 years! won't change for a while yet) .

I think all the back and forth came from when Yah says "the 7th day" if that is changed or not, he other stuff was stemming from that, but not directly spoken on, i *think.
 
The penalty of sin, brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin. If you live under a righteousness of obedience to the law the penalty for sin remains. If you live under grace the penalty has been removed. Hence the following:

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Rom 3:31

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace Rom 6:14

For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. Rom 7:5

The problem is today, many stress the need to obey the law to attain Heaven. They may do so with good intention but it is wrong. For when you stress a person must obey the law to inherit eternal life, you are saying a person has a righteousness before God of obedience to the law. That negates what Christ did for the Christian at Calvary. Sadly, it has left many who go to church in the position Paul was in as a Pharisee in Rom 7:7-11, it is truly tragic how often that happens today
It is also futile/pointless to stress law, for as you agree, the law God desires a person to keep is writtwn on their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion. They are only too painfully aware of their shortcomings before God. Those who are humble, and have honest estimation of themselves are not helped, or being shown love by those who proclaim they easily uphold God's laws. Therefore, they are failing themselves to keep the second most important commandment on which the whole law hangs.

The bottom line is do we obey or not, we can find infinite beautifully spoken ways to verbally excuse ourselves, or we can seek obedience. The 2 great Commandments can not be kept is any of the others are broken.... It not about perfect obedience, its about the Creator created everything and He has a Law that governs everything in existence....

2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."


*What is the "mystery of iniquity" ?

3466 mustérion
mustérion: a mystery or secret doctrine
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;

458 anomia
anomia: lawlessness
Short Definition:lawlessness, iniquity
Definition:lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

All the anti-nomians here you would think there is a verse that says, "those who keep His Laws will have eternal fore, but no Scripture says: "Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city"

So its all about love right? Messiah says because people wont follow the Law love will grow cold. Ohh and if you have a problem with that take it up with Him, He said it not me.

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

If you tell it how it is/the truth, people will dislike you, give them a soothing saying and thy will call you "loving"....

Proverbs 27:5-6, "Open rebuke is better than concealed love. Faithful are the wounds from a friend, but the kisses from an enemy are deceitful."

Acts 26:20 King James Bible
"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God (YHWH), and do works meet for repentance."

Acts 3:19
"Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of Yahweh."
 
Can I ask? Do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian in Romans ch7:14-25, or his life as a Pharisee prior to becoming a Christian?
 
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

I would say this is the error of the wicked;

Romans 10:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Romans 10:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

........ Romans 10 is about the pharisees making their own Law and the Messiah being he perfect exampkle if obedience the the Creator's perfect Commands.

We are not righteous by following the Law of the Creator, but the Yahsua showed the intent or ultimate result of keeping the Law of the Creator.


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

New International Version
Mt 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible
Mt 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

I don't think one person can show another person. I think the Lord Jesus Himself must show you.

SO the veil is believing the 10 Commandments are valid? wow really? NO the veil is the Jews thinking the still had the levitical priesthood, and establishing their own system and rejection the Messiah, nothing like twisting Scripture.

Revelation 14:12
English Standard Version
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation;Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

For it was written long before it happened:

Psalm 89:26-37, "...My covenant will stand fast with Him...My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie..."

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

It is so so clear in Revelation, the final written message to mankind.... but the mystery of iniquity is coming to its fulness so enmity to His Instructions is expected.

Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
 
How well must a person obey God's laws to attain Heaven? Must they only obey 10% ?, 30% obedience? 50% obedience, is that enough? Or 90% is that acceptable to inherit eternal life? If you do not know the answer, how can you have any confidence of eternal life when you die? You would have to fear you may not have obeyed well enough and maybe cast into hell wouldn't you?

No one will die because they sinned, we have all sinned. They will die because they rejected the truth. First they rejected Jesus Christ, through whom alone they could receive forgiveness of their sins unto salvation. Many also who claim to have accepted and recieved this forgiveness, then go on to reject the truths of God's word. They think they can be forgiven while persistently rejecting the truths of God's word. They are mistaken. God's ten commandments are upheld as the standard for Godly living to the very end of the scriptures. Those who reject this truth will die for rejecting the truth, not being sinners, which we all are. Sinners who acknowledge the truth and seek forgiveness for their sins can and will be saved. Sinners which reject the truth as the truth, will also never confess this very sin and therefore never be forgiven of the same. They will be lost.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Like I said, the commandments are upheld as the standard right up to the last book and chapter. Those who deny this, deny the truth. They will therefore be among those who loveth and maketh a lie.

It is not as much about perfectly keeping the law, as it is about first and foremost acknowledging the truth in relation to the same. Those who reject the authority of the fourth or any other commandment, reject the truth of God's authority over humanities, unto damnation.

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Those who reject the truth of the testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be none of His. They have denied Him in doing so, and He will deny them before the Father.

Mr 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it. 36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Joh 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him,
If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

Joh 15:
1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 ¶ As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.