A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[presidente]

If you are offended by hijabs; then it's your choice not to wear one
whenever you are praying and/or prophesying. But looking through online
catalogues, I've found several patterns that are quite stylish, and in my opinion
would be acceptable to all except maybe the snobs in church who find fault with
just about everything anyway.

=====================================

In Indonesia, they call Muslim head coverings 'jilbab.' It's not the full body thing, more of a hijab. I had this idea for a Christian jilbab, the Krilbab, for Muslim background believers and others to wear. Indonesian jilbab are usually decorative, often with batik or other designs on them, fashionable, yet Islamic. I'm thinking maybe some little fish on the Christian version?

The Indonesian translation renders I Corinthians 11 to say that none of the other churches have this custom of head covering. It's usually pretty literal and not 'interpretive' in most other contexts.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

I am not offended by hijabs. But you need to understand that this is MUSLIM headwear!

As for your egrerious doctrine that women have to wear head coverings, there is only one place in the entire Bible this is mentioned, and in context, it has to do with the culture of Corinth, which was a sailor town, full of temple prostitutes. All Paul wanted to do was have the women not look like prostitutes, but rather Christians.

So you are a Muslim? Such legalism has to mean that! I know some Muslims who know the Bible better than some Christians. Mind you, you don't seem to have a clue about exegesis or hermeneutics - how to properly read and interpret the Bible.

So would you rather all women be kept inside in harems, except when a father, husband or brother goes out with them, and they are dressed in a burka and niqab? Just curious.

Haha this guy has to be winding us up Angela - what say you...is he for real???

 

[elf3]

Since we are people of the New Covenant of CHRIST which GOD made with us by the HOLY SPIRIT, and also since we call ourselves as Christian, then prove through the written Scripture of the New Covenant, GOD's Word said that women are also called and allowed to become leaders/pastors?

And i will give you all who are witnessing 'vain debaters' against the New Covenant, a direct Scripture in context justification as written in 1 Timothy 3; 1-7, that only 'men' are to take that place of service, in and for GOD's church until CHRIST returns. Apostle Paul with authority from CHRIST, gave young Timothy instructions how and who to choose as leaders/pastors for GOD's churches and also which 'gender' very clearly, for even a 'child' is able to understand that.

And here is the beginning of the written proof for that 'child of GOD', that;

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone 'aspires' to the office of 'overseer/leader/pastor', 'he' desires a noble task. ......................... 'He' ....................................................................................... 'He' .....................................

So please lambs and sheep of GOD beware of the 'yeast' of the Pharisees, who are in carnal/flesh religiousness, living and witnessing the written and justified Word of GOD in false and are liars, knowingly or unknowingly.

One may ask, why the big 'fuss' over a small thing, and what 'harm' a little false can do?

As it is written 'what' and 'who' CHRIST cautions about, who believers are to be aware of;

"Watch out for the 'yeast' of the Pharisees."

"It takes only a little 'yeast', to 'rise up' a lump of dough."

Show me one single passage of Scripture that proves one person better than the other according to the Gospel of Christ. If you truly believe one person is better than another, even in heirarchy of the church, then you completely miss the two greatest commandments; above all love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

This is the main debate. The heirarchy of the church is based on what Paul wrote making a full doctrine of thus writing. How many times is this heirarchy written in the Bible? So we make it law?

Matthew 27:5 "then he went away and hanged himself." Shall we make this law? If we sin against God are we to hang ourselves? Maybe we should make this law also.

Females as pastors is NOT against the Gospel of Christ. If you say it's against the Gospel of Christ, which we are to spread, then you a re adding a false doctrine to the Gospel thus becoming a false teacher. If a female preaches the Word of God to a man and he accepts Christ it doesn't make it void just because he was preached too by a woman. That case I state is a woman preaching. So if a woman is a preacher in a church does it make any confession void?

Tradition hinders the spreading of God's word. It's not law, it's not against the Gospel and neither The Father or Son or Holy Spirit make it a command to the church. Men make it a command as we do with so many other things.

 

[elf3]

As un-wonderful as they may be at times; male pastors are Christ's gender
of choice.

You know: nothing brings out a female's fallen nature like a gender issue. Only
a truly Spirit-filled woman is at peace with male domination. The rest are
perpetually chafed by it because they are ruled by the flesh instead of the Spirit.

†. Rom 8:5-8 . .Those who live according to the sinful nature have their
minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with
the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful
man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the
sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do
so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

====================================

You do realize you have a fallen nature also right?

 

[kennethcadwell]

In Romans 16, Paul wrote that Andronicus and Junia were 'of note among the apostles.' I pointed out to a retired Greek professor I know on a Christian discussion forum that this is ambiguous in English. We don't know if all the apostles were talking about this couple and talking about how notable they were, or whether they were apostle who were considered to be of note. He said that the Greek was also ambiguous. It's not a clear cut case for a female apostle, and that is the only verse that might call a woman an apostle.

Even so, if a church laid hands on a missionary couple and sent both husband and wife out, does that justify the idea that the wife would be serving in a role similar to an overseer of the church? We read a lot into the word 'apostle' based on church tradition that doesn't really have to do with the context of scripture, IMO.

As far as women leading in the church, Phoebe is said to be a servant of the church in Cenchrea. The word for servant there is also translated deacon. I know that some people go to Baptist churches that have a 'deacon board' where the deacons run the show, hire and fire the pastor, and make decisions for the church like an 'elder board' in some other churches. But it would seem a lot more likely that deacons in the Bible were like the seven, feeing widows and doing similar administrative work. They aren't the same as the bishop/elder of the church role who are in a more authoritative position.

Even one of the passages of Paul on deacons has that section 'and their women' which could be interpreted as requirements for how a deacons wife has to be for him to be a deacon. But it would be strange that there is no list for the overseer/elder's wife if that is the case. Another interpretation is that these are requirements for a female deacon.

We need to keep in mind that deacons didn't run the church. They most likely administrated feeding the poor. Phoebe had assisted many, including Paul. This could have been while doing deacon works of service, helping with financial need, and other things.

So this does shake the apple cart of those who think women can't do any ministry in the church. But it doesn't put them in the overseer/pastor type role in scripture.

Junia was a female apostle and some of the early church fathers did not like this, so that added the "s" to the name to make it the male noun for the name Junias to cover it up. This is well known by biblical scholars that this cover up was done, which is why some other books at the Nicene council were deemed not appropriate for the cannon that we now know as the bible. Because they clearly listed female apostles, leaders, and preachers in them, so does early church history documents. It is amazing with all the studying done now days this debate still takes place, but people twist even the standard straight forward scriptures so what can we expect out of this.

 

[fredjames]

It's a matter of how one views GOD all throughout the OT man has wanted another man to be over them when at first it was to be GOD alone. Yes GOD has provided what the heart of the people seek after and the results usually will cause them to see their error and bring the heart to Repent. GOD does not replace women to do a man's job keep in mind HE always has a Remnant. ex: Saul, David etc..., now women have their place within the Body of CHRIST but pastor, bishop and the likes are not it. The Bible teaches us GOD, man, women, child the order does not change. Many try to protect the woman pastor and this will only lead to destruction, the spiritual attacks these leaders must face was never intended for women no matter how much Biblical wisdom one has. Don't argue with your friend regarding this just pray GOD opens her mind and heart because it takes Godly Wisdom on whom we allow to cover us.

Blessings!!!!!!!

Thank you but you misunderstand not remembering the field day CHRIST had with the Pharisees, written in the Gospels and also Apostle Paul's to the Galatians church.

Was HE arguing or 'straightening' them in 'conviction' to turn back to GOD from their sins in 'repentance of being hypocrites' and to completely come out of it?

Does my enlarge words means that i am arguing or ministering 'repentance' to the 'heart harden'?

This is my given duty in me and HE is who speaks and the HOLY SPIRIT reveals, about 'lawlessness'.

i believe that is your given duty that you should 'pray', even for me.

As it is written;

"I plant the seed but Apollos waters them but, ....................................................................."

Be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[fredjames]

He told us to look at the law in regards to his teaching to Timothy in regards to women.

Please give me the Scripture quote in order for me to refer and also know your 'honesty'?

 

[elf3]

Since the begining of time God has been trying to tell us we are all equal. Jesus came and died to show we are equal. But man made first man sinned second so man is better. What a load of dung that man spreads to "puff" himself up.

All you guys who think women cant preach or lead a church need to check where your priorities are. Are they in spreading the Gospel of Christ or are they in "lording" authority over someone else. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AT THE NAME OF CHRIST!! NO ACCEPTIONS NO SPECIAL TREATMENT!! Might as well get on your knees now so it doesn't hurt later.

 

[Utah]

Since the begining of time God has been trying to tell us we are all equal. Jesus came and died to show we are equal. But man made first man sinned second so man is better. What a load of dung that man spreads to "puff" himself up.

All you guys who think women cant preach or lead a church need to check where your priorities are. Are they in spreading the Gospel of Christ or are they in "lording" authority over someone else. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AT THE NAME OF CHRIST!! NO ACCEPTIONS NO SPECIAL TREATMENT!! Might as well get on your knees now so it doesn't hurt later.

Women must never lead people to Christ as pastors! Let the souls of would-be believers be damned!

I had to type that out just to see how stupid it felt. Its pretty damn stupid!

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Women must never lead people to Christ as pastors! Let the souls of would-be believers be damned!

I had to type that out just to see how stupid it felt. Its pretty damn stupid!

Actually it had gone well beyond the "women should not preach" argument, now apparently we have to all wear head coverings...or we are heretics. Well that's me done for then because nothing goes on my head - not even for weddings LOL

 

[JackH]

Acts 1:13,14

Acts 1:17,18
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

I wonder what this word "prophesy" means, exactly.

I wonder what these daughters and handmaidens will be saying.

Who thinks they know?

 

[fredjames]

New here, but I will say that the first person to preach the gospel was Mary and He said go tell Peter.

And so upon hearing Mary preach that day, the Apostles then went to all nations and preached Mary's gospel.

Are you a follower of the gospel of Mary?

And so witnesses please distinguish for yourselves between the 'spirit of error' and the 'spirit of truth', even one who newly walks in and who are in witnessing.

So, is this the whole 'Grace' and 'truth' of the written four Gospels, that proves Mary's preaching covers that four Gospels? And should we even now become or again become Catholics and further in their 'extended remix' gospel preaching, we may also have to pray to 'mamma Mary' to intercede with CHRIST?

This truly resemble the Jews who 'bewitched' the Galatians church by preaching the gospel of 'circumcision'.

Don't you see the 'yeast' of the Pharisees, of 'confidence' and 'boldness', while the MASTER is away, but to those who are faithful, HE sends this Word;

"Counterfeits!"

The Gospel you are looking for, are only 'preached' to the lost out there and are you 'lost' 'my son or my daughter'?

To tell you the truth my friend, only the written four Gospels in full context are 'taught' here by the HOLY SPIRIT and we all who believe as in 'whole', share them with each other.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you.

 

[fredjames]

You are clearly right and tribesman is clearly wrong.

It seems to me that being called by God is the most important factor in ordination. In today's world, anybody can go to certain websites and get ordained in a few minutes. You get a swell certificate.

With respect to Deborah being called by God and ordained (appointed):

Exodus 7:1 "Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Jeremiah 5:1: "I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Judges 4:4: "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time." The Hebrew word for prophetess in that verse is the feminine version of the masculine Hebrew word in those other two verses. One of the biblical definitions of prophecy is inspired teaching. Judges 5:13: "The LORD made me (Deborah) have dominion over the mighty."

So Deborah was ordained (appointed) by God to be a judge of Israel and prophetess for 40 years. One would think that she did plenty of inspired teaching and preaching and pastoring in rendering decisions during that time. Israel was her church.

The New Covenant of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT is the only Christian Truth foundation that is 'clearly right', even about HIS 'Truth' founded church and they are 'only a few'.


Why then continue ignorantly to look to perishable men or women for answers?

 

[elf3]

The New Covenant of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT is the only Christian Truth foundation that is 'clearly right', even about HIS 'Truth' founded church and they are 'only a few'.


Why then continue ignorantly to look to perishable men or women for answers?

Exactly!!! So why can't women preach the Gospel of Christ to men (and its the Gospel of Christ through the Holy Spirit not the Gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit) to men if we are ALL to preach the gospel?

 

[fredjames]

You are clearly right and tribesman is clearly wrong.

It seems to me that being called by God is the most important factor in ordination. In today's world, anybody can go to certain websites and get ordained in a few minutes. You get a swell certificate.

With respect to Deborah being called by God and ordained (appointed):

Exodus 7:1 "Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." Jeremiah 5:1: "I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Judges 4:4: "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time." The Hebrew word for prophetess in that verse is the feminine version of the masculine Hebrew word in those other two verses. One of the biblical definitions of prophecy is inspired teaching. Judges 5:13: "The LORD made me (Deborah) have dominion over the mighty."

So Deborah was ordained (appointed) by God to be a judge of Israel and prophetess for 40 years. One would think that she did plenty of inspired teaching and preaching and pastoring in rendering decisions during that time. Israel was her church.

Israel's Prophets and Prophetesses do not judge the people and have no right to do so, for they knew well that GOD is only their true judge of HIS people. And they are just 'messengers' who pronounce them which is only from HIM.

Only the false spoke on their own and they never came from GOD, because Moses already cautioned the people of Israel to watch out for them.

 

[fredjames]

Bottom line is this, Freddie Boy, when we see each other in Heaven, I'll rejoice that you're there, while you'll be incensed that I'm there. I thank God that Jesus is my saving grace, and not your putrefied heart of calamity.

If you and your ignorant carnal/flesh friends continue like this, know that the judgement of Matthew chapter 7 and verse 21 to 23 shall fall upon you all. For the ones written there were 'very confident' mannered in the presence of the LORD, but are the ones HE 'rejected'.

The very same 'very confident' ones also could be witnessed in the Gospel that speaks about 'Final judgement day', where CHRIST will separate the sheep and goats.

i am sorry, for now as a taught witness to and about the New Covenant, you no 'sheep' of CHRIST to me but sadly an ignorant 'goat'.

Repent!

 

[fredjames]

Just remember............your mother was a woman, so are your wives and sisters. WE are everywhere.

As it is written, JESUS replies this to you;

"Who is My mother, sisters and brothers? They are those who obey GOD and do HIS will."

JESUS said this to the crowd while they were waiting outside to meet HIM. And so we are also outside as Christian waiting to meet HIM in Heaven. And that is our reminder and our stir up of memory message today, that only those who 'obey' all of GOD's Word written in the New Covenant and 'do' according to them , are actually doing HIS will.

 

[fredjames]

Show me one single passage of Scripture that proves one person better than the other according to the Gospel of Christ. If you truly believe one person is better than another, even in heirarchy of the church, then you completely miss the two greatest commandments; above all love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

This is the main debate. The heirarchy of the church is based on what Paul wrote making a full doctrine of thus writing. How many times is this heirarchy written in the Bible? So we make it law?

Matthew 27:5 "then he went away and hanged himself." Shall we make this law? If we sin against God are we to hang ourselves? Maybe we should make this law also.

Females as pastors is NOT against the Gospel of Christ. If you say it's against the Gospel of Christ, which we are to spread, then you a re adding a false doctrine to the Gospel thus becoming a false teacher. If a female preaches the Word of God to a man and he accepts Christ it doesn't make it void just because he was preached too by a woman. That case I state is a woman preaching. So if a woman is a preacher in a church does it make any confession void?

Tradition hinders the spreading of God's word. It's not law, it's not against the Gospel and neither The Father or Son or Holy Spirit make it a command to the church. Men make it a command as we do with so many other things.

As it is written as according to the LORD that;

"Get behind me satan! You think like everyone else, but what is written in the Scriptures must happen."

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

I wonder what this word "prophesy" means, exactly.

I wonder what these daughters and handmaidens will be saying.

Who thinks they know?

To be moved to speak by God's Holy Spirit is to prophesy.......

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You have heard (or read) some of these faithful "daughters" that have been moved by the Holy Spirit to speak (or write) (2 Peter 1:19) here at cc....... (those that have "visions and "dreams" of the future or present time that don't align with scripture or come to pass are to be dismissed as false.).......

Peter is quoting the prophet Joel who prophesied of the promised free gift of the Holy Spirit that came upon the male apostles and male and female disciples of Jesus Christ after His Blessed Resurrection while being moved by the Holy Spirit to speak.......

Joel 2:28,29
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Peter goes on to explain the promise and free gift of the Holy Spirit for faith in Christ that they all received at Pentecost here in verse 33.......

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

[fredjames]

Exactly!!! So why can't women preach the Gospel of Christ to men (and its the Gospel of Christ through the Holy Spirit not the Gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit) to men if we are ALL to preach the gospel?

The title of this tread is about overseer/pastor/leader and not preacher. Do you know the differences or even distinguish between both?

In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST stop your 'empty babbling' of a twisted Gospel.