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Dec 12, 2013
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#41
The word of God requires water baptism, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:16 Jn 3;5; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-5; 1 Cor 12:13; Col 2:12; 1 Pet 3:21. Acts 2:41, rejecting baptism is rejecting the gospel word.
Of course being a follower of Campbell you would promote this heretical dogma....How about the scriptures that outnumber your out of context verses 20 to one that teach faith based upon mercy and grace for salvation.......!

Your watered down blood will not save.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe<---NO WATER or works added to this verse...if water was necessary it would say

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe, are immersed, do many wonderful works and jump through hoops like a dog!

If you believe that Jesus has been raise from the dead.....
EVEN those who believe on HIS NAME....
Whosever believeth in HIM.....

You guys will find out one day, albeit too late, that your watered down Campbellite doctrine had no power!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,874
13,202
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#42
Col 1:18; Eph 4:4 Christ established just one body/church.....one = one. There is no such thing as a multitude of different churches that believe in things contradictory to each other yet somehow all are biblically correct anyway for that idea is the corruption of man.

amen!

though it begs the question -- did God form "denominations" or did men?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,874
13,202
113
#43
notuptome = water baptism does not save
bible = baptism doth also now save us

So the philosophies of men contradict the simpliest of bible teachings.

Campbellism: water baptism doth save

the apostle Peter:
not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God

Jesus Christ: John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#45
The CoC taught me more about the Bible, in the 12 years I was there, than I can ever thank them for. But, eventually, I outgrew the dead traditionalism, and wanted a living relationship with Jesus. I loved my time there, but I could never go back now, because I have found so much more.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
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#46

Campbellism: water baptism doth save

the apostle Peter:
not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God

Jesus Christ: John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Peter said :

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Even if you cannot figure out what the meaning is of that between the parentheses in 1 Peter 3:21, it still says loud and clear "baptism doth now also save us"

Mark said baptism saves :

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark said with conjunctive "and" (πιστευσας και βαπτισθεις) that "faith and baptized" saves now doesn't he... one cannot exist without the other and equal "saved", you don't have to be very bright to figure that out, it appears the people teaching his friend are teaching according to the bible and not your man made doctrine.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#47
The CoC taught me more about the Bible, in the 12 years I was there, than I can ever thank them for. But, eventually, I outgrew the dead traditionalism, and wanted a living relationship with Jesus. I loved my time there, but I could never go back now, because I have found so much more.
You learned how to will worship
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#48
Of course being a follower of Campbell you would promote this heretical dogma....How about the scriptures that outnumber your out of context verses 20 to one that teach faith based upon mercy and grace for salvation.......!
Either you cannot understand your bible, or you believe it to be the uninspired word of God, because the bible cannot contradict its self or God and the Holy spirit failed miserably in providential preservation, if you do believe that the bible is the inspired word of God then you would accept even one verse that says baptism saves (though there are more) and those that say faith saves, and accept them both to be true, otherwise you may as well throw your bible away because there is no way to know what is or is not true, and God left man to pick and choose (roll your own) religion.
 
F

f4ufighter777

Guest
#49
The Church of Christ, INDEED, teaches that it is "the water," of Baptism "that saves," consequently - not The Blood of Jesus!!! Three flaws cause such "false doctrine," to flourish. 1st - very few Christians KNOW THAT they DO-NOT know "the correct definition," of THE Bible. 2nd - very few Understand "the confusion." that Translations, done in The King's English - causes!!! The King's English is the only "generic language," of "the intelligent languages," of The Caucasian race!

All the other Caucasian Languages have built-in Word Pictures that-convey The Proper Understanding, of "the issue," WHEN folk, who are speaking, Understand this problem and -so-use Proper Word Pictures!

3rd - "the stumbling block, for The Church of Christ is the-word "for," in their most famous Scripture i.e. "for the forgiveness of sins!!!" My wife bought me a new laptop FOR my birthday!!! All she expects, in return, is for me to show appreciation, for it, by not abusing it and Properly Maintaining it!!!

Here - Jesus' Word Is Saying (in The King's English) - MY Blood Has-Provided FOR Forgiveness, of your sins. I.e. THE DEED - Has BEEN DONE So - show me THAT you appreciate, JUST WHAT I Have Done by showing Proper Respect, "FOR" MY Blood!!!

For a bonus - 4) will deal with "this thing," called The Rapture - just note the following Biblical Points - about it:

... HE Has Delivered "HIS Own people," into Great Tribulation Periods OVER and OVER and OVER "FOR," their failure TO OBEY "HIS Sent prophets," TO - put The Evil of Paganism, out of The Land so-staying impending Divine Judgment, hanging over "the heads," of HIS Own people!!! They always refused (or at-least 99% of the time) to-so OBEY!!! HE Never Changed HIS Mind to-have "turned around," and Sent them a rapture!!!

America has-done "far more evil," than any-five of their wicked-kings!!! HE WILL NOT - have to apologize, to HIS Own people FOR HAVING GIVEN American - Wicked Local Church Religion - a rapture!!! Jesus' Word Says THAT "we," individually and Nationally," WILL REAP JUST-WHAT "we have sown!!"

f4ufighter777

Ron Stauffer

Some Local Church Religion Truths Follow:

{It is TOO LATE to pray for America: Isaiah tells us re times “such as these,” – THE LORD WILL NOT HEAR our prayers AND America (and all her Biblical Sister Nations) has-long-since followed “the same pattern,” of National Cultural Destruction THAT her genetic ancestors i.e. The Historic, Flesh and Blood, Non-Jewish House of Jacob-Israel – followed into Divine Judgment (without Rapture) over and over and over!!!}

{It is TOO EARLY to-employ “The Obedience,” of 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Chronicles 7:14 FOR - Divine Intervention as The Disclaimer, in Verse 13 tells us THAT Verse 14 WILL NOT WORK as-long-as THE LORD’S OWN people, have sufficient access, to Resource and Energy enough, TO OBEY the prophets, in putting THE EVIL, out of The Land – SO STAYING Impending Divine Judgment!!!}
{Religious Prison has “no iron bars” YET it is Absolutely-Secure IN-THAT there has-been no-escapes from it, NO, NOT ONE, in-over 2000 years – ONLY Pardons!!! It is “the only prison,” WHEREBY “those so incarcerated,” of their-own selves CANNOT KNOW THAT they-are so-incarcerated!!!)

{still looking for allies re The Edomite (3 generation) Culture War, against The Bible (consequently against Christ) THOUGH they have-long-since "won it" THOUGH only on an-informal-basis WHILE formality cannot-be very-far away THEN, HE WILL DELIVER, HIS OWN people, into Great Tribulation, once again, THOUGH – this time FOR -"the last time!!!"}

{“none are-more hopelessly-enslaved than-those who falsely-believe they are-free” – Johann Gothe}
{“The Religiously-Lost, of their-own facilities, cannot-know THAT they-are Religiously-Lost!!!” – The Bible}


When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

~~Thomas Jefferson

(When Edomite-Washington DC, wrote Christ, its “bill of divorcement,” by tossing, HIS LAW, out of America, as-if IT-WERE, some “smelly sack of garbage,” – man’s local church “co-signed it,” by just-singing AMAZING GRACE and VICTORY IN JESUS as-if ONLY NOTHING “was wrong,” – this act of Absolute Apathy disenfranchised HIM From, Any Longer, BEING America’s BENEFACTOR and-was “The Foundation,” THAT ALL OF America’s Great National Tragedies WOULD INDEED HAPPEN and-was The Foundation THAT Edom-Washington DC WOULD continually-follow, “it’s same course today of Illegally-Legally (i.e. violating The Constitution WHILE-Making “law of The Land) legislating “evil to be good,” AND “good to be evil!!!” Consequently – 1000s of otherwise-innocent lives, are destroyed 24/7 via “the many aspects,” of America’s “pagan culture,” of Death (America was-born with The Biblical Culture of Life!!!)!!!



{SO, SINCE Edom-Jewry Communism has-murdered “hundreds of millions,” (and murders millions-more, each year) AND it is the: "finest ideals of the Edomite-Jewish mind" WHAT - does this tell-us about Edom-Jewry AND about who-blesses “these ideals,” by continually-blessing Communism’s Headquarters i.e. The Political State of Israel (not-to-be confused with The True Israelites, of The Flesh and Blood House of Jacob-Israel) WHEREBY America has-long-since become “the most Divinely-Cursed nation so-blessing her FORMER BENEFACTOR’S “racial enemies WHEREAS this is Biblically-Forbidden!!!?

Anti-Communism is Anti-Semitism.”Jewish Voice, July - August 1941.
Some call it Communism, I call it Judaism.” Rabbi Stephen Weiss.}

scripturesforamerica.org amprom.org kingidentity.com thetruthseeker.co.uk
amren.com infowars.com seek-info.com israelect.com missiontoisrael.org
wnd.com truthinhistory.org blacklistednews.com hoffman-info.com
thetomatobubble.com goggle: “red jewry” and “edom jewry”

From The Biblical Prospective “things,” have-been getting “worse and worse,” for “The Traditional American people,” for the past 3 generations AND FOR TOO LONG “these things,” have-been getting “worse and worse,” faster and faster!!!
From The Edomite Prospective “things,’ (re America) have-been getting “better and better,” for them, for the past 3 generations AND FOR TOO LONG “these things,” have-been getting “better and better,” faster and faster!!!

One already consequence, America has-long-since been-transformed into This World System’s Chief Pagan Nation, so-ruling over it!!!

Another consequence has-been The Transformation of America’s Original, Inherent-Biblical “Culture of Life,” INTO The Same Old, Anti-Christ, Babylonian “Culture of Death!!!” America – just like the-rest of here genetic-sister nations FEATURES The Culture of Death!!!

All this while – ALL that has-been heard-from The American-Made, 501c3, Mainstream, Local Church System re this, is-singing AMAZING GRACE and VICTORY IN JESUS as-if ONLY NOTHING is wrong!!! Consequently – The Current “Handwriting On The Wall,” Testifies of THE LORD’S Condemnation of America WITHOUT Rapture (this is not “the time,” to be ignorant of The Sowing and Reaping Doctrine!!!)!!!
 
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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#50
Peter said :

1 Peter 3:21 (KJV)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Even if you cannot figure out what the meaning is of that between the parentheses in 1 Peter 3:21, it still says loud and clear "baptism doth now also save us"

Mark said baptism saves :

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark said with conjunctive "and" (πιστευσας και βαπτισθεις) that "faith and baptized" saves now doesn't he... one cannot exist without the other and equal "saved", you don't have to be very bright to figure that out, it appears the people teaching his friend are teaching according to the bible and not your man made doctrine.
Yes baptism does save...
The problem is that you or your church add to the Bible and say it's the WATER baptism that saves us... when the very verse you quoted says: the water is only "like a figure" or a symbol or parable of THAT BAPTISM THAT SAVES US (the fire baptism that John the Baptist said Jesus would baptize with)...
Peter then still continues to reaffirm that saving baptism - saying it does NOT consist of the washing of flesh but the pledge of clear conscience before God through Jesus... the dunking into the water is just an image of how our soul is made clean and also symbol of burial and resurrection... and not a means of salvation.

The saving baptism happens in the spirit when the person turns to God asking for forgiveness, with the decision to quit their ways and live for Him and so they die to themselves and get born again that moment. You cant wash sins by literal water. The living Water which is the Spirit of God washes sins. Why would God say His Spirit and Word is the living water... it is His provision for us to receive and sustain our life and get our souls clean because physical things are made to testify about spiritual things. The physical is nothing but a curtain which sometimes (often) clouds the truth even when it's plainly in the Bible. Who has ears, let him hear.
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,874
13,202
113
#51
1 Peter 3:21 (KJV)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

"like figure" means also a figure -- that is, that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion is also a symbol, not the substance. that is why the apostle is careful to point out that is not washing with water that saves, but the faithful reply of an heart that believes in the one who justifies the ungodly. the act that Peter tells us saves is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.




Mark 16:16 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark said ...

Mark didn't say this. Jesus said this. it is well to look at context.

and He did not say "he that is not immersed in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is damned" -- but he that believeth not. Jesus did not baptize with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O - the scriptures explicitly say this, because the Holy Spirit that inspired their words wanted us to know.
the earnest of our inheritance and salvation in Christ is not wetness. it is the Holy Spirit which seals us, the same by which Jesus Christ Himself baptizes.
the scripture explicitly says there is one baptism - and that Christ baptizes with the Spirit, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

i'm not saying this to contest with you mr. Jaw -- there are hundreds of pages of the saints patiently explaining this to you on this forum already. if you won't believe them, why would you believe me?
i'm posting this so that anyone else who reads this thread will not be lead into confusion, putting a ritual above the living Christ.

Christ alone saves. no work can save you. Christ alone saves.
don't place faith in a mikveh, that can only get you damp for a short time, until the sun or a towel dries you again, and cannot make your heart clean.
place faith in the Lord, who alone can cleanse you with His blood, regenerate you with His spirit, and from whose hand no one can snatch you out of.
 
F

f4ufighter777

Guest
#52
its the same old thing over and over and over i.e. in time Traditionalism and Denominationalism (which includes Non-Denominationalism and so-called Independents) always replaces True Biblical Doctrine WHICH IS WHY - only "a few," ever overcome!!! The Stumbling Blocks of Local Church Religionism are-just TOO HUGE!!!

Ron Stauffer
f4ufighter777

Some Local Church Religonsim Truths follow:

{It is TOO LATE to pray for America: Isaiah tells us re times “such as these,” – THE LORD WILL NOT HEAR our prayers AND America (and all her Biblical Sister Nations) has-long-since followed “the same pattern,” of National Cultural Destruction THAT her genetic ancestors i.e. The Historic, Flesh and Blood, Non-Jewish House of Jacob-Israel – followed into Divine Judgment (without Rapture) over and over and over!!!}

{It is TOO EARLY to-employ “The Obedience,” of 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Chronicles 7:14 FOR - Divine Intervention as The Disclaimer, in Verse 13 tells us THAT Verse 14 WILL NOT WORK as-long-as THE LORD’S OWN people, have sufficient access, to Resource and Energy enough, TO OBEY the prophets, in putting THE EVIL, out of The Land – SO STAYING Impending Divine Judgment!!!}
{Religious Prison has “no iron bars” YET it is Absolutely-Secure IN-THAT there has-been no-escapes from it, NO, NOT ONE, in-over 2000 years – ONLY Pardons!!! It is “the only prison,” WHEREBY “those so incarcerated,” of their-own selves CANNOT KNOW THAT they-are so-incarcerated!!!)

{still looking for allies re The Edomite (3 generation) Culture War, against The Bible (consequently against Christ) THOUGH they have-long-since "won it" THOUGH only on an-informal-basis WHILE formality cannot-be very-far away THEN, HE WILL DELIVER, HIS OWN people, into Great Tribulation, once again, THOUGH – this time FOR -"the last time!!!"}


{“none are-more hopelessly-enslaved than-those who falsely-believe they are-free” – Johann Gothe}
{“The Religiously-Lost, of their-own facilities, cannot-know THAT they-are Religiously-Lost!!!” – The Bible}
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

~~Thomas Jefferson


(When Edomite-Washington DC, wrote Christ, its “bill of divorcement,” by tossing, HIS LAW, out of America, as-if IT-WERE, some “smelly sack of garbage,” – man’s local church “co-signed it,” by just-singing AMAZING GRACE and VICTORY IN JESUS as-if ONLY NOTHING “was wrong,” – this act of Absolute Apathy disenfranchised HIM From, Any Longer, BEING America’s BENEFACTOR and-was “The Foundation,” THAT ALL OF America’s Great National Tragedies WOULD INDEED HAPPEN and-was The Foundation THAT Edom-Washington DC WOULD continually-follow, “it’s same course today of Illegally-Legally (i.e. violating The Constitution WHILE-Making “law of The Land) legislating “evil to be good,” AND “good to be evil!!!” Consequently – 1000s of otherwise-innocent lives, are destroyed 24/7 via “the many aspects,” of America’s “pagan culture,” of Death (America was-born with The Biblical Culture of Life!!!)!!!

{SO, SINCE Edom-Jewry Communism has-murdered “hundreds of millions,” (and murders millions-more, each year) AND it is the: "finest ideals of the Edomite-Jewish mind" WHAT - does this tell-us about Edom-Jewry AND about who-blesses “these ideals,” by continually-blessing Communism’s Headquarters i.e. The Political State of Israel (not-to-be confused with The True Israelites, of The Flesh and Blood House of Jacob-Israel) WHEREBY America has-long-since become “the most Divinely-Cursed nation so-blessing her FORMER BENEFACTOR’S “racial enemies WHEREAS this is Biblically-Forbidden!!!?)


Anti-Communism is Anti-Semitism.”Jewish Voice, July - August 1941.
Some call it Communism, I call it Judaism.” Rabbi Stephen Weiss.}

scripturesforamerica.org amprom.org kingidentity.com thetruthseeker.co.uk
amren.com infowars.com seek-info.com israelect.com missiontoisrael.org
wnd.com truthinhistory.org blacklistednews.com hoffman-info.com
thetomatobubble.com goggle: “red jewry” and “edom jewry”

From The Biblical Prospective “things,” have-been getting “worse and worse,” for “The Traditional American people,” for the past 3 generations AND FOR TOO LONG “these things,” have-been getting “worse and worse,” faster and faster!!!
From The Edomite Prospective “things,’ (re America) have-been getting “better and better,” for them, for the past 3 generations AND FOR TOO LONG “these things,” have-been getting “better and better,” faster and faster!!!

One already consequence, America has-long-since been-transformed into This World System’s Chief Pagan Nation, so-ruling over it!!!

Another consequence has-been The Transformation of America’s Original, Inherent-Biblical “Culture of Life,” INTO The Same Old, Anti-Christ, Babylonian “Culture of Death!!!” America – just like the-rest of here genetic-sister nations FEATURES The Culture of Death!!!

All this while – ALL that has-been heard-from The American-Made, 501c3, Mainstream, Local Church System re this, is-singing AMAZING GRACE and VICTORY IN JESUS as-if ONLY NOTHING is wrong!!! Consequently – The Current “Handwriting On The Wall,” Testifies of THE LORD’S Condemnation of America WITHOUT Rapture (this is not “the time,” to be ignorant of The Sowing and Reaping Doctrine!!!)!!!
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#53

i'm posting this so that anyone else who reads this thread will not be lead into confusion, putting a ritual above the living Christ.
Amen, some churches really try to make people believe that God does not forgive and save as soon as a sinner repents and believes, but that He rather withholds His salvation and waits till this person gets dunked in a pool to save him... (or maybe takes salvation back if the person did not get or manage to get into that bathtub...) Ridiculous
 
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K

Kaycie

Guest
#54
There's a lot of talk about Campbellites on here. Alexander Campbell did not start the Church of Christ, Jesus Christ started the Church of Christ. If today I successfully taught one of these man made churchs the doctrine of Christ, in an effort to restore them back to the one church of the bible, could they call them all Kaycieites? I suppose they have free will to call it anything, but the fact that I restored them back to the truth does not mean I started a new church, it means I brought them back to Christ's church.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#55
Amen, some churches really try to make people believe that God does not forgive and save as soon as a sinner repents and believes, but that He rather withholds His salvation and waits till this person gets dunked in a pool to save him... (or maybe takes salvation back if the person did not get or manage to get into that bathtub...) Ridiculous
What's more ridiculous is that 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves, and you say it does not.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#56
What's more ridiculous is that 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves, and you say it does not.
You are lying... I just cant word that otherwise, and I really did not expect that kind of debate tactic from you to be honest Kaycie.
Anyways I'm done here, I've written for the sake of non-members who visit the forum so they can read the truth - I know legalist minds are set in concrete.

Yes baptism does save...
The problem is that you or your church add to the Bible and say it's the WATER baptism that saves us... when the very verse you quoted says: the water is only "like a figure" or a symbol or parable of THAT BAPTISM THAT SAVES US (the fire baptism that John the Baptist said Jesus would baptize with)...
Peter then still continues to reaffirm that saving baptism - saying it does NOT consist of the washing of flesh but the pledge of clear conscience before God through Jesus... the dunking into the water is just an image of how our soul is made clean and also symbol of burial and resurrection... and not a means of salvation.
 
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U

Ukorin

Guest
#57
What's more ridiculous is that 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves, and you say it does not.
It says it symbolizes that which saves us.

Faith in water? Rubbish to be burned up on the Last Day.

You keep the Baptism of John, and I will keep the Baptism of Christ. Ask John which one is greater.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#58

"like figure" means also a figure -- that is, that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion is also a symbol, not the substance. that is why the apostle is careful to point out that is not washing with water that saves, but the faithful reply of an heart that believes in the one who justifies the ungodly. the act that Peter tells us saves is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You fail to understand (or refuse to understand because it goes against man made doctrine and not that of Christ) that the "water" does not wash away sins like taking a bath washes a way the filth of the flesh, the "water baptism" is "like figure" or better translated (almost transliterated as the Greek word is αντιτυπον "antitupon") antitype.

1 Peter 3:21 (NKJV)
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


When you look in the mirror at your face, you do not see your face as it is, you see a "like figure" the "same but opposite".

Peter says like in the days of Noah, when the water washed away the sins of the world (not Noah's but the worlds) today the water if Noah were alive and baptized, would not wash the sins of the world as did then, but wash his sins, but Peter is sure to clarify that he is NOT saying it washes away the filth of the flesh, (it is not a normal bath) but spiritually washes away the sins of the conscience, the mind, the spirit of a man...

Put down you man made doctrine, clear your head, and read your bible, it will help.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#59
It says it symbolizes that which saves us.

Faith in water? Rubbish to be burned up on the Last Day.

You keep the Baptism of John, and I will keep the Baptism of Christ. Ask John which one is greater.
See post 58
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#60
You are lying... I just cant word that otherwise, and I really did not expect that kind of debate tactic from you to be honest Kaycie.
Anyways I'm done here, I've written for the sake of non-members who visit the forum so they can read the truth - I know legalist minds are set in concrete.
It is sad you think you're above everyone, that you will explain your understanding (with the help of man made doctrine) and anyone that rejects it you take as a heretic, it is a shame you cannot do as the bible says, to not just spout off an opinion and say take it or leave it... that you cannot show what you believe and why you believe it is of God :

1 Peter 3:15-17 (NKJV)
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

To many spout their opinion, not backing it with scripture, then call those that do "legalistic" for following the word of God.