I'm Worried About a Friend and Church of Christ

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

If you are going to quote Wikipedia then quote it properly :

Campbellite is a mildly pejorative term[1] referring to adherents of certain religious groups that have historic roots in the Restoration Movement, among whose most prominent 19th century leaders were Thomas and Alexander Campbell. Members of these groups generally consider the term "Campbellite" inappropriate, saying that they are followers of Jesus, not Campbell.[2][3][4]:85–87[5]:91–93 They draw parallels with Martin Luther's protest of the name "Lutherans" [6]:162,163 and the "Anabaptists" protest of the name given to them by their enemies. With specific reference to the early Restoration Movement, "[t]he terms Campbellism and Campellites were universally rejected by those to whom they were applied."[4]:86

So, as you see, this is a "name given to them by their enemies", these are all "men", those in the congregations that call themselves the "church of Christ" and "follow the bible only" are "Christians" they are Christians because they follow NO MAN, but only the Doctrine of Christ...

Now you have yet to answer my question above, show you have the guts to name your affiliation, what man do you follow?

At least the OP's friend has the guts to admit they are learning the doctrine of Christ and not some man as you do...

Willie-T · Feb 9, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

Who said we were not to worship with instruments..... Jesus, or Alexander? (Only one of a slew of dead traditions)

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

Willie-T said:

The question is who said "we are to worship with instruments"? Jesus? or man?

When you can prove Jesus said that, then you can bring this up again...

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

This philosophy is a farce and fails the smell test.....Ok if you want to play that game....John was called what exactly....

John the church of Christ? NO...He was called John the BAPTIST<--------yeah I know...John the immerser of dipper....just to show how your philosophy is flawed.....

The only man made doctrine is your COC doctrine which you follow......a watered down blood based upon your own works heresy.....Jesus' last name was Christ....NOT CAMPBELL and he taught Whosoever believes in the SON OF GOD is not perishing, but is having everlasting life.....

Be not removed from the simplicity that is found in JESUS....IT pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......OPEN your eyes before wake up in the fire....!

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Willie-T said:

Amen....they reject quite a few things, but is expected as it takes actually being born again to understand the word of God....

Like....

I am the Lord thy God I change not
The inspired Psalms where instruments are used and inspired by God
The use of harps and instruments in HEAVEN in Revelation

God is consistent....if used in PSALMS and inspired, If used in HEAVEN In REVELATION....The consistency of God proves it is ok to worship with them in the N.T......

At the end of the day it is more legalistic fodder put out by men......promoted by men and contrary to the truth!

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

To me it is not a game, for you however, because you cannot refute the truth, you resort to name calling, typical of one who is backed into a corner because they follow man made doctrine which ALWAYS finds contradiction with the truth (bible).

Ill take that as you are Baptist, if so, by what authority do your kind have to call the Lords church by the name of another prophet? He said "I will build my church", he did not say "I will build Johns church of whom is not even worthy to latch my shoes"

You follow a doctrine of men, not of Christ, you preach another gospel.

dcontroversal said:

Paul said, not once, but twice :

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

your members go by another name and preach another gospel other than the church and gospel of Christ...

Again, I am glad the OP's friend is reading the "gospel of Christ" and ignoring your man made false doctrine.

And by the way, Jesus last name was not "Christ", I know you have a hard time understanding even a dictionary, but try looking up "Christ", you will find it is not His last name, but what He is.

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Again, because you are ashamed to state what name your congregation wears, but have no problem bashing those that are not ashamed of who and what they believe...

No place can you find on this earth, now or ever, that instrumental music is pleasing to God, you have been shown by Seabass that even prophets of old said David used the instruments without authorization :

Amos 6:5 (KJV)
5 That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

See here what (probably one of your own brethren, who knows your ashamed of your organization, will not admit the name of the church you attend) :

Amos 6:5

And invent to themselves instruments of music, like David—See the note on 1 Chronicles 23:5; and see especially the note on 2 Chronicles 29:25 (note). I believe that David was not authorized by the Lord to introduce that multitude of musical instruments into the Divine worship of which we read, and I am satisfied that his conduct in this respect is most solemnly reprehended by this prophet; and I farther believe that the use of such instruments of music, in the Christian Church, is without the sanction and against the will of God; that they are subversive of the spirit of true devotion, and that they are sinful. If there was a wo to them who invented instruments of music, as did David under the law, is there no wo, no curse to them who invent them, and introduce them into the worship of God in the Christian Church? I am an old man, and an old minister; and I here declare that I never knew them productive of any good in the worship of God; and have had reason to believe that they were productive of much evil. Music, as a science, I esteem and admire: but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor. This is the abuse of music; and here I register my protest against all such corruptions in the worship of the Author of Christianity. The late venerable and most eminent divine, the Revelation John Wesley, who was a lover of music, and an elegant poet, when asked his opinion of instruments of music being introduced into the chapels of the Methodists said, in his terse and powerful manner, "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither Heard nor Seen." I say the same, though I think the expense of purchase had better be spared.

The word ‏הפרטים‎ happoretim, which we render chant, and the margin quaver, signifies to dance, to skip, etc. In the sight of such a text, fiddlers, drummers, waltzers, etc., may well tremble, who perform to excite detestable passions.

Adam Clarke's Commentary.

Zmouth · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

And exactly why were Romans soldiers beings baptize in the wilderness? They weren't but the prisoners they brought with them were.

And the Son of man shall gather all that offend or commit iniquity and cast them in the fire...Luke 3:8-98 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Now Jesus was given life by the Holy Ghost, so when he came out of the water the Holy Ghost again descended upon his flesh.

But of course you know why Jesus asked the chief priests about the baptism of John whether it came from God or man? Care to offer your answer

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

Again, because you are ashamed to state what name your congregation wears, but have no problem bashing those that are not ashamed of who and what they believe...

No place can you find on this earth, now or ever, that instrumental music is pleasing to God, you have been shown by Seabass that even prophets of old said David used the instruments without authorization :

Amos 6:5 (KJV)
5 That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

See here what (probably one of your own brethren, who knows your ashamed of your organization, will not admit the name of the church you attend) :

Amos 6:5

And invent to themselves instruments of music, like David—See the note on 1 Chronicles 23:5; and see especially the note on 2 Chronicles 29:25 (note). I believe that David was not authorized by the Lord to introduce that multitude of musical instruments into the Divine worship of which we read, and I am satisfied that his conduct in this respect is most solemnly reprehended by this prophet; and I farther believe that the use of such instruments of music, in the Christian Church, is without the sanction and against the will of God; that they are subversive of the spirit of true devotion, and that they are sinful. If there was a wo to them who invented instruments of music, as did David under the law, is there no wo, no curse to them who invent them, and introduce them into the worship of God in the Christian Church? I am an old man, and an old minister; and I here declare that I never knew them productive of any good in the worship of God; and have had reason to believe that they were productive of much evil. Music, as a science, I esteem and admire: but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor. This is the abuse of music; and here I register my protest against all such corruptions in the worship of the Author of Christianity. The late venerable and most eminent divine, the Revelation John Wesley, who was a lover of music, and an elegant poet, when asked his opinion of instruments of music being introduced into the chapels of the Methodists said, in his terse and powerful manner, "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither Heard nor Seen." I say the same, though I think the expense of purchase had better be spared.

The word ‏הפרטים‎ happoretim, which we render chant, and the margin quaver, signifies to dance, to skip, etc. In the sight of such a text, fiddlers, drummers, waltzers, etc., may well tremble, who perform to excite detestable passions.

Adam Clarke's Commentary.[/QUOTE]

To this post and the one above...I don't recall calling you a name.....

second......either Campbell or Clarke....you still follow men and what they heretically believe.....

Jesus Christ the righteous
Jesus The Christ
Immanuel
I AM

It is all the same SON OF GOD.....by the way.....scriptures out of context is exactly what you and your COC buddies use to promote your COC or Clarke doctrine......

Point stand...open your eyes.......remove the scales.....come to the light out of the spiritual darkness and actually trust Jesus.....!

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Zmouth said:

Jesus was/is the Son of God from Birth (LUKE)

And your point is exactly what about John? John refused to immerse anyone until they had proven biblical salvation BEFORE IMMERSION.....so your point is?

So...how is the Holy Spirit ORB thing going.........?

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Feb 9, 2015

Jabberjaw said:

Your hateful and divisive words clearly show who you and other cOC members take instructions from and who you serve. The more you spew venom from your mouth to defend your false doctrines (second hand Campbellism, full of erroneous and unsound teachings) ....... the more your churlish behavior, frowardness, dishonesty, division, hatred,fleshly pride, and gall is displayed for all to see. Briars and thorns from a unbeliever who does not follow Christ's commands to love his neighbor as himself is clearly shown here by you for all to see. The love you lack in your heart displayed towards others in your postings here at cc proves you are negligent of basic sound biblical teaching and prove you not to be a true believer of Christ, (mental assent at best) regardless of any claims you make. Those who truly believe in Christ will follow His instruction to love even their enemies....... they don't attack people with venom for telling them the truth or for saying something they didn't agree with like you and other members of cOC have done here. Who is going to allow someone full of hatred in their heart instruct them about the God of love and truth?.......

But don't just take my word for it........let's see what some former members have to say about coC.......shall we?

"I, like most in the churches of Christ, was raised up on the notion that we must "restore" the first century church to present day America. It was something I never questioned, and just assumed (like most) that it was a biblical concept and goal. However, some years back I began a personal quest to confirm my beliefs, and I soon learned that many of my cherished convictions came more from my forefathers in the faith than from my Faithful Father! This notion of restoration of the first century church is one of them, in my view." ----Al Maxey "

"I've tried my entire life to keep all the rules and was so deadened staring at a mean, vindictive God who handed out more rules for 'comfort'." ----a Church of Christ sister in Phoenix "

"What started me questioning my church of Christ theology was when my uncle preached a sermon on 'the point of no return.' He told the entire youth group that you can sin so badly you can go to hell, and Jesus' blood doesn't cover you. Imagine hearing that at fifteen years old. For two years I would cry myself to sleep I was so scared. But Jesus has opened my eyes!" -----Andrea, a visitor to our website"

"The passage that convinced me that we in the Church of Christ were thinking wrongly towards the New Testament was the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14). It was the tax collector who was justified rather the Pharisee (who was doing everything perfectly)!" ----Monty"

"I went to a church of Christ congregation for awhile, but was surprised at what I found there. A friend sent me to your website and I was so enlightened about all of their doctrine. Thank you! One’s church or its doctrine will not save you---only Jesus can. It scares me. They proudly state that 'where the Bible is silent they are silent' and 'where it speaks they speak.' They are only fooling themselves. I have never seen people twist Scripture so much, or take what they want and omit the rest. I have heard them give long-winded, circled-around explanations of Scripture. My heart breaks for them. I truly believe in my heart that church is a cult." ----Jessica"

"Being raised in the Church of Christ, I began a lifelong devotion to the Word of God. But there was an incident that began to shake my faith in the Church of Christ. When I was in college, a boy I knew was killed in a car accident on his way to being baptized. He had gone through an extensive process of learning the Christian faith at my church, had professed his deep and abiding faith in Christ, and had fulfilled every requirement to be a Christian—except being baptized. Most of my friends in the church believed that because he had not been baptized that this boy was in hell for eternity. This event started me questioning the teachings of the Church of Christ. In time, I studied my way out of this sect." ----Edward"

"Growing up, I had a few very good friends who were Baptist, Bible Church, and Community Church. The fruit I saw in their lives had a huge impact on me. Over time, I began to question several of the CC doctrines because the answers they gave seemed lacking, incomplete, or just plain wrong Biblically. The real change came when I questioned the whole essence of salvation. Of course, they teach baptismal regeneration. I read that I was justified by faith. They told me I had to have faith before I was baptized, but that it was actually baptism that saved me. Why did I need to be saved if I was already justified by faith? The more I questioned this, the more I began to understand that my obedience could never satisfy an absolutely holy, righteous God who demands absolute perfection from me. I knew baptism wasn’t going to do it! That’s when I really began to appreciate that God has granted us justification through faith. But even this didn’t set well with me. How strong did my faith need to be to be acceptable to this perfect God? That’s when it really hit home that we are saved “by grace” through faith. I left the CC in 1996 (although they tried to publicly “disfellowship” me after I left) and have been growing in grace ever since then. What a comfort it is to know that I can stand before God judged not on my own merits, but on the merits of Jesus. So that’s my story in a nutshell. Praise God!" ----Brett"

"Scott himself later became disappointed in the movement he helped found. He believed that people had taken his ideas too far. He felt the movement had become too sectarian and complained that many had become "theoretical to a hair-breadth, and proclaimers of water rather than of Christ," who "talk of baptism for the remission of sins, until every body is sick of it." He said, "When you express your doubts of the matters connected with the recent Reformation, I sympathize with you, for the thing has not been what I hoped it would be by a thousand miles. We are indeed 'a sect' differing but little, of anything that is good, from the parties around us. Alas! my soul is grieved every day."

source

1 John 4:20
Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

You call people names so much you don't even recognize it, when you call someone a "Campbellite" you call them names...

It is you who follow men, it is why you won't say what man made religion you follow, your ashamed someone would know what off shoot apostate church you belong to and prove it is not the church our Lord started....

the congregations calling themselves "church of Christ" abide by His doctrine, wear His name, the one Paul used Rom. 16:16

Romans 16:16 (KJV)
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

The one Christ call His Matt 16:18 :

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Can you say that? can you find anywhere Jesus started your apostate church?

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

My "hateful and divisive words"?

It is sad you have a list of people that have fallen for the father of lies, but we are warned of that :

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NKJV)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

I am glad the OP's friend is not falling for the false teaching you and others spout, I am glad this person is listening to what the bible says and not deceitful workers like you and others here that wont even say what apostate organization they belong to, hiding behind a keyboard calling those not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, the members of the Lords church names.

Jabberjaw · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Now I cannot wait until you show me where John the baptizer refused to baptize anyone "until they have proven biblical salvation" Please show me this... Book Chapter and Verse....

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I'm Worried About a Friend and Church of Christ

Jabberjaw

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Willie-T

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Jabberjaw

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dcontroversal

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dcontroversal

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Jabberjaw

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Jabberjaw

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Zmouth

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dcontroversal

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dcontroversal

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GracethroughfaithinChrist

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Jabberjaw

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Jabberjaw

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Jabberjaw

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