Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[michael56]

The glory being spoken of was the glory of God still upon Moses' face when he descended the mountain, which the Jews could not look upon. The law written upon the heart of the believer is a greater glory revealed in acts of righteousness performed by God's own in Christ which uplift and glorify God. The above has nothing to do with annulling the law of God but rather establishing the same within human flesh. This cannot be and is not accomplished by ignoring the rest God has commanded on the seventh day according to the fourth commandment.

So far everyone who insists a person observes Saturday Sabbath has to ignore this point, I imagine you will too. If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

 

[gotime]

No. Its speaking of the carnal commandment which men who work at the law make Gods Law into.

Thou shalt not kill. When you don't kill because of working at this commandment you have made it into a carnal commandment. By your carnal self and your carnal work.




You didn't read carefully enough.

Interesting point of view.

on one had I assume you are trying to say that because the priest changed so did all the law and on one hand I can see where you are coming from not that is being said here.

but you don't believe that not killing has gone so you acknowledge that not all the law is abandoned.

lets look at your text in context shall we?

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

now you can make up your own definition of what Carnal Commandment means but I want to know from the bible.

here are a few other translations:

Heb 7:16 not in virtue of a law of physical descent, but in virtue of the power of an indestructible life.

Heb 7:16 one who became a cohen not by virtue of a rule in the Torah concerning physical descent, but by virtue of the power of an indestructible life.

Heb 7:16 who came not according to the law of a fleshly command, but according to the power of an endless life,

It would seem that the carnal commandment has more to do with lineage than what you have said.

Is this a fact?

Exo 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

Aaron was called by God to be a priest and his family after him.

Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

now notice also that the text itself gives us a clue:

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

"But" after the power of an endless life. so the carnal commandment then did not have the power of an endless life.

This is clarified in a later verse:

Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

notice the "law" made men high priests which have infirmity/they die and do not live to be a priest forever. thus this part of the law had to change according to the oath that makes Jesus a priest for ever more.

SO it becomes very clear that you are giving your own meaning to carnal commandment that is not given in the scripture.






Thus contextually the law here is the law of the priesthood connected to Aaron, this never made anyone perfect but Jesus as our Priest can.

on top of that ask yourself if there is no law/10 commandments then what need is there for a Priest?

 

[michael56]

Yes you can and I was, but this is another topic altogether.

Ro 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. rOM 3:20
You need to read a little more carefully your quoted scripture

 

[michael56]

How about telling us what this law is. Since it apparently does not apply the fourth commandment as God spoke or wrote it. Just what commandments are included of those which get written upon the heart? Can you show us from scripture where it says the laws written upon our hearts will be different than those God spoke and wrote?

As soon as you respond to the following point I put to you I will:

If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

 

[michael56]

Her we are, explain it to me. Explain to me how not observing the fourth commandment as god has spoken it, is part of being born again of the Spirit. Thank you.

Please explain to me, why, a person born again of the Holy Spirit, who loves God and wants to constantly worship and praise him every day of their lives for all He has done has done for them has to worship Him to a lesser extent six days of the week and only reserve one day of the week to give him such heartfelt praise and worship?
If I attended a church meeting with others on a Wednesday for example and raised my arms in the air in thanksgiving and praise to God for all he has done for me through Christ, what will God say? ''I would accept such praise and worship far more if it was made on a Saturday??' It doesn't sound right to me.

 

[gotime]

So far everyone who insists a person observes Saturday Sabbath has to ignore this point, I imagine you will too. If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

not so, you may think this is sound reasoning but it has flaws.

For instance the law was put on the hearts of those who by faith followed God in the Old Testament also. God did not accept works based religion even in Moses day. That being the case tell me why did God give the 10 commandments if He wanted them on the heart?

Why not just put them there in the heart if they would all suddenly be aware of them?

For that matter why even have preachers to teach people how to follow God? Just write it on the heart.

Why did the apostles instruct others to keep any laws at all when it would simply be on the heart?

see your point has holes.

 

[michael56]

not so, you may think this is sound reasoning but it has flaws.

For instance the law was put on the hearts of those who by faith followed God in the Old Testament also. God did not accept works based religion even in Moses day. That being the case tell me why did God give the 10 commandments if He wanted them on the heart?

Why not just put them there in the heart if they would all suddenly be aware of them?

For that matter why even have preachers to teach people how to follow God? Just write it on the heart.

Why did the apostles instruct others to keep any laws at all when it would simply be on the heart?

see your point has holes.

It is very sound reasoning. The law under the old covenant was not written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer as it is today:
The days are coming,” (THEY WERE NOT THEIR YET) declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[SUP][d][/SUP] them,[SUP][e][/SUP]”
declares the Lord.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
jEREMIAH 31:31-34

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
hEB 10:16&17

If you read the preceeding verses in this chapter it is obvious they are connected to Christ's death for us. Only under the new covenant can a persons sins and lawless deeds be remembered no more, for Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness Rom 10:4

 

[gotime]

Please explain to me, why, a person born again of the Holy Spirit, who loves God and wants to constantly worship and praise him every day of their lives for all He has done has done for them has to worship Him to a lesser extent six days of the week and only reserve one day of the week to give him such heartfelt praise and worship?
If I attended a church meeting with others on a Wednesday for example and raised my arms in the air in thanksgiving and praise to God for all he has done for me through Christ, what will God say? ''I would accept such praise and worship far more if it was made on a Saturday??' It doesn't sound right to me.

That does not sound right to anyone. keeping the Sabbath is not about worshipping God less other days. We worship everyday as it should be. We keep Sabbath because God said to and within the Sabbath is the Gospel. within the Sabbath is the character of God. If you love God then why would you not love the day that is about Him in a special way. why would you reject that Sabbath gift for man?

 

[michael56]

That does not sound right to anyone. keeping the Sabbath is not about worshipping God less other days. We worship everyday as it should be. We keep Sabbath because God said to and within the Sabbath is the Gospel. within the Sabbath is the character of God. If you love God then why would you not love the day that is about Him in a special way. why would you reject that Sabbath gift for man?

In my pinion(just mine) a born again Christian is entitled to believe every day is their Sabbath, if they love God with all their heart. They will love Him, and worship him equally all seven days of the week. Would you love your children and want to please them more one day than another?
[SUP] [/SUP]One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Rom 14:5

 

[gotime]

It is very sound reasoning. The law under the old covenant was not written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer as it is today:
The days are coming,” (THEY WERE NOT THEIR YET) declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[SUP][d][/SUP] them,[SUP][e][/SUP]”
declares the Lord.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their mindsand write it on their hearts.
jEREMIAH 31:31-34

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
hEB 10:16&17

If you read the preceeding verses in this chapter it is obvious they are connected to Christ's death for us. Only under the new covenant can a persons sins and lawless deeds be remembered no more, for Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness Rom 10:4

the old covenant had to go not because the law was not to be in the heart but because the priesthood changed the sacrifices changed.

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Same Gospel friend as it is written:

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


so no you point does not work. you still ignore that if what you say is true then the apostles giving instruction on what to do and not to do is pointless because according to you its on the heart so everyone would just know what to do.

 

[michael56]

the old covenant had to go not because the law was not to be in the heart but because the priesthood changed the sacrifices changed.

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Same Gospel friend as it is written:

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


so no you point does not work. you still ignore that if what you say is true then the apostles giving instruction on what to do and not to do is pointless because according to you its on the heart so everyone would just know what to do.

My point is correct. Even in this debate most who consider Saturday Sabbath must be observed accept under the new covenant the law is placed on the heart and written on the mind as it wasn't under the old covenant. But as it is too painful for people to say you cannot be a Christian unless you worship on a Saturday, I realise-this being the internet, some will look to submit any answer to try and deflect away from the truth

 

[Jeff_56]

.... totally unexpected, honestly.

what day of the year, any year, are followers of yahshua(yahweh's salvation)(jesus) supposed to not serve him ?

since most people on earth, everywhere, do not serve him any day of the year, what difference could sabbath make for them ?

i.e. there's only a few people on earth that serve jesus , (and don't serve money,man,pride,religion,etc etc etc), and those who do serve jesus serve him every day. halleluyah! to his name - he is lord and master and savior and king !

 

[kennethcadwell]

As is obvious from the posts on these boards, we can all take some scripture and make it mean what we want. Jesus is walking through a corn field with His disciples on the Sabbath, they pick and eat some corn while doing so, the Pharisees ridiculously accuse them of working on the Sabbath for doing so. Christ corrects them for their petty accusations and unsound reasoning. Now you take this instance and basically say Christ and the disciples were working for a living when they ate corn on the Sabbath while walking through a corn field, and Christ defended working for a living on the Sabbath when he defended their actions, therefore it is now acceptable to work for a living on the Sabbath. Whatever, we are all free to do as we wish.

It seems to me though, you are doing exactly what the Pharisees did in just the opposite direction they did it. Your both turning what they did into something it was not, just for different reasons.

The thing is you have failed to realize that by what the disciples did by picking the corn and eating was unlawful in the Mosaic laws, and carried a penalty of death. Because the law in the OT stated that all food was to be gathered the days before the Sabbath, and if anybody was caught going out and picking/gathering food on the Sabbath was to be put to death. The Lord rebuked the Pharisees for wanting to stick to the Mosaic laws, and stated that He requires mercy and that they were innocent cause they needed to eat. If a person is working to support and feed their family, they are working for the Lord. We are not held to the same standards of the Mosaic laws, if you believe we are then go put people to death for adultery, working on the Sabbath, and so on as the bible makes it clear if you want to follow part of the Mosaic laws you are held to obey all of it.

 

[Grandpa]

Interesting point of view.

on one had I assume you are trying to say that because the priest changed so did all the law and on one hand I can see where you are coming from not that is being said here.

but you don't believe that not killing has gone so you acknowledge that not all the law is abandoned.

lets look at your text in context shall we?

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

now you can make up your own definition of what Carnal Commandment means but I want to know from the bible.

here are a few other translations:

Heb 7:16 not in virtue of a law of physical descent, but in virtue of the power of an indestructible life.

Heb 7:16 one who became a cohen not by virtue of a rule in the Torah concerning physical descent, but by virtue of the power of an indestructible life.

Heb 7:16 who came not according to the law of a fleshly command, but according to the power of an endless life,

It would seem that the carnal commandment has more to do with lineage than what you have said.

Is this a fact?

Exo 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

Aaron was called by God to be a priest and his family after him.

Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

now notice also that the text itself gives us a clue:

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

"But" after the power of an endless life. so the carnal commandment then did not have the power of an endless life.

This is clarified in a later verse:

Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

notice the "law" made men high priests which have infirmity/they die and do not live to be a priest forever. thus this part of the law had to change according to the oath that makes Jesus a priest for ever more.

SO it becomes very clear that you are giving your own meaning to carnal commandment that is not given in the scripture.






Thus contextually the law here is the law of the priesthood connected to Aaron, this never made anyone perfect but Jesus as our Priest can.

on top of that ask yourself if there is no law/10 commandments then what need is there for a Priest?

There is a law. It is our tutor to bring us to Christ.

When you work at it in your own understanding you make it into a law of a carnal commandment. Because you are carnal, a man in the flesh. All you really understand is your work and trying to be a 'good' person.

I don't mean to sound harsh to you but you can't do this by your work at the law, which is what the law is telling you;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It should be obvious that you can't do this by your work at the law.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

So how are you made perfect? By Grace through Faith. Same way as everything else that is freely given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not of works, lest any boast.

Whenever the NT talks about the law you always try to separate it into parts so that you can continue working at your favorite part. If the law were able to be separated into parts I wonder why the author of the bible didn't spell out what part he was referring to in order to avoid major confusion? It is because the law cannot be separated into parts. You can't abolish part of the law and keep your favorite parts.

I suppose it seems like I do the same thing by "spiritualizing" everything. I suppose you are probably right.

Galatians 5:5,18
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

not under the law? which law, you are probably asking yourself. The law of a carnal commandment. The 10 commandments that you work at in your own carnal understanding and strength.

If you are not given Eternal Life, you will not have Eternal Life.
If you are not made Perfect, you will not be Perfect.
If you are not given Obedience, you will not be Obedient.

This is the faith of Abraham. Jehovah Jireh. The Lord will provide everything that is needed for Eternal Life. I shall not want.

If it is by my works I already quit. I can't do it. Can't jump that high... lol

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[4enlightment]

The Sabbath represent the seventh day, the Resurrection, the end of days. And on that day, it must be kept Holy, which means clean, unblemished, immaculate and or without sin. The Sabbath was made to prepare mankind for that day, to practice how they should be on that day, and which they'll be like the Angels, clean in thought, pure in heart. But if someone that has a single bad thought, has violated the Sabbath, because they didn't had kept it Holy, and which God only look at the heart, and if it is dirty on that day, they'll be cast away from His presence or outside of the gates of the city or camp, like Miriam was shut outside from her people.

Matthew 15:3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? (They had broken God's command by being judgmental on the Sabbath and policing or patrolling.)

At least these people get paid for working on the Sabbath.

 

[Grandpa]

So far everyone who insists a person observes Saturday Sabbath has to ignore this point, I imagine you will too. If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

Do you think a person can be a Christian and not have a full understanding of what the law is meant for? Thereby thinking they must work at a portion of it to fulfill themselves?

I suppose what I am asking is, are any of us perfect believers? Do all of us have a portion of 'stiffneckedness' in us?

1 Corinthians 13:9-13
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I think it should say love instead of charity. But the end result is probably similar. Plus, I am no Greek scholar...

 

[newbirth]

In my pinion(just mine) a born again Christian is entitled to believe every day is their Sabbath, if they love God with all their heart. They will love Him, and worship him equally all seven days of the week. Would you love your children and want to please them more one day than another?
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Rom 14:5

I share the same opinion on this matter......one who has entered into Christ's rest has ceased from his own works....

Hebrews 4:9-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[keeth]

Keeping a saturday sabbath is not walking in the spirit, its working at the law which is walking in the flesh.

Refraining from killing people is walking in the spirit if keeping a saturday sabbath is walking in the spirit. We all know that is not the case. It takes more than working at the law to walk in the spirit.

Galatians 2:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

No one is saying or has said that righteousness comes by the law. If you think they have, you are mistaken. It is a figment of your imagination. The law of God is the standard, it has no power to impart righteousness, and I know of no one who has said it does. You are wrong though for suggesting that keeping the law is of the flesh, and not the Spirit. Paul himself conclusively contradicts this false testimony. According to him the law is spiritual and therefore of the spirit, we are carnal and must change to be of the spirit. We have to change, the law does not, it is already of the Spirit and truth.

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

As he also testifies, it is the carnal nature that is not subject to the law of God, not the spiritual nature.

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

How say you that keeping the commandments of God is of the flesh in direct contradiction to the words of Paul concerning the same. You accuse those who walk and act according to the spirit, of being carnal and of the flesh because they keep the spiritual law of God. What does this mean, but that those who break the law are of the spirit and not the flesh. Are you not the one Peter was referring to when he said the following?

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Jeff_56]

[h=1] Ezekiel 11:17-21New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]17 [/SUP]“Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.’

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

[h=4]Cross references:[/h]

1. Ezekiel 11:17 : S Ne 1:9; S Jer 3:18; 24:5-6; S 31:16; Eze 20:41; 28:25; 34:13; 36:28
2. Ezekiel 11:18 : S Eze 5:11
3. Ezekiel 11:18 : Eze 37:23
4. Ezekiel 11:19 : S 2Ch 30:12; S Ps 86:11
5. Ezekiel 11:19 : Zec 7:12; Ro 2:5
6. Ezekiel 11:19 : Eze 18:31; S 2Co 3:3
7. Ezekiel 11:20 : S Ps 1:2
8. Ezekiel 11:20 : S Jer 11:4; 32:38
9. Ezekiel 11:20 : S Ex 6:7; Eze 14:11; 34:30; 36:26-28; Hos 1:9; Zec 8:8; Heb 8:10
10. Ezekiel 11:21 : Jer 16:18
11. Ezekiel 11:21 : Jer 16:11; S Eze 9:10; 16:43

New International Version (NIV) Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

 

[keeth]

So far everyone who insists a person observes Saturday Sabbath has to ignore this point, I imagine you will too. If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

To the contrary, I have stated as much many times. By the way, the fourth commandment says nothing about going to church, though it certainly fits observing the day. It is the same with all of the ten commandments of God. One who breaks one of the commandments can and will be forgiven if they acknowledge its authority by confessing thier sin and asking forgiveness for the same. On the other hand, one who denies the authority of a commandment, will no doubt also never ask forgiveness for the same since they no longer consider it sin to break that commandment. Herein lies the danger. Un-confessed sin will remain unforgiven sin. The unforgiven are not saved. They will not be lost because they were sinners, they will be lost because they rejected the truth and therefore never sought or received forgiveness for doing so.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is the above in relation too, but the man of sin, the mystery of iniquity, and those who followed after the same by taking pleasure in unrighteousness because they have rejected the truth. What are we discussing, but the validity of the commandments of God ans sin and righteousness in relation to the same. Who is the man of sin but the one who says one of God's commandments no longer matters and seeks to set another command in its place. Those who reject the authority of any of the commandments of God reject that which God spoke audibly to humanity with His own mouth and wrote twice with His own finger. These words are like no other in scripture, save the recorded testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who always taught us to keeping of the commandments of God. Any man or institution which declares authority to alter the word of God both spoken and written to humanity, has placed themselves above God and is verily antichrist.