Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[keeth]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. rOM 3:20
You need to read a little more carefully your quoted scripture

I don't need to read anything more carefully. I know exactly what the scripture says and believe it 100%. Maybe you need to read what I right more carefully. Righteousness does not come by the law, and neither I or anyone else on these boards has ever said it does. This obsession of yours concerning the same is in your own twisted and self blinded mind. You absolutely must and do keep coming back to this false accusation or allusion because you have no other leg to stand on. It is the crutch of your argument without which you have no argument. you simply must ignore gobs of scripture to believe as you do, and keep making the above accusation because you can do nothing else.

 

[keeth]

As soon as you respond to the following point I put to you I will:

If you are right, and the Christian is required to worship on a Saturday by God in church, then that law MUST be written on the mind and placed on the heart of every Christian. Nothing else is possible is it. As sin is transgression of the law, any Christian therefore who refuses to set aside Saturday as their Sabbath, and does not attend church that day, MUST know in their heart and mind they are wilfully sinning before God. Therefore, if your belief on this issue is correct, you would also have to believe, any person who refuses to set aside Saturday as Sabbath and go to church on that specific day, and has no heartfelt conviction they are sinning by doing so, cannot be saved/a Christian.
The problem is here, though what I have written is obviously correct, none of you have the courage of your convictions to actually agree with it.

I already answered this question. Before it is all over, every single person will decide upon this issue. They will have too, since the day of the Sun will be exalted in the place of God's Sabbath by human law, and all will have to choose between humanities authority and God's.

 

[keeth]

Please explain to me, why, a person born again of the Holy Spirit, who loves God and wants to constantly worship and praise him every day of their lives for all He has done has done for them has to worship Him to a lesser extent six days of the week and only reserve one day of the week to give him such heartfelt praise and worship?
If I attended a church meeting with others on a Wednesday for example and raised my arms in the air in thanksgiving and praise to God for all he has done for me through Christ, what will God say? ''I would accept such praise and worship far more if it was made on a Saturday??' It doesn't sound right to me.

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Because one of God's commandments says so, and the bible admonishes us to keep His commandments from one end to the other. You already know this though. You just will not accept it.

 

[keeth]

The thing is you have failed to realize that by what the disciples did by picking the corn and eating was unlawful in the Mosaic laws, and carried a penalty of death. Because the law in the OT stated that all food was to be gathered the days before the Sabbath, and if anybody was caught going out and picking/gathering food on the Sabbath was to be put to death. The Lord rebuked the Pharisees for wanting to stick to the Mosaic laws, and stated that He requires mercy and that they were innocent cause they needed to eat. If a person is working to support and feed their family, they are working for the Lord. We are not held to the same standards of the Mosaic laws, if you believe we are then go put people to death for adultery, working on the Sabbath, and so on as the bible makes it clear if you want to follow part of the Mosaic laws you are held to obey all of it.

You keep referring to the Mosaic laws, I am not referring to them at all. I am referring to God's law and God's Sabbath. They are His, not mine, or yours, or the Jews. Your mixing things up that shouldn't be mixed up. The fourth commandment says nothing about gathering food or not.

The instance you are referring too, regarding the gathering of food, was for a specific time under specific circumstances. God provided Israel's food for forty years while they wandered in the wilderness. They gathered this manna every morning, but on Friday God Himself provided a double portion to be gathered before the Sabbath began according to His own instruction. This because He did not supply the manna on Sabbath because He wanted the day to be different from the rest. That the preparation of the food might be done on Friday rather than the Sabbath which was for rest. This was a specific command relating to specific circumstances which ended when Israel entered the promised land. You would be better off just doing as you wish on the Sabbath, than you will be if you continue to try and make God's word say what you wish. this is a dangerous practice.

 

[michael56]

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Because one of God's commandments says so, and the bible admonishes us to keep His commandments from one end to the other. You already know this though. You just will not accept it.

As you have not answered my question, I will not respond to yours

 

[Grandpa]

No one is saying or has said that righteousness comes by the law. If you think they have, you are mistaken. It is a figment of your imagination. The law of God is the standard, it has no power to impart righteousness, and I know of no one who has said it does. You are wrong though for suggesting that keeping the law is of the flesh, and not the Spirit. Paul himself conclusively contradicts this false testimony. According to him the law is spiritual and therefore of the spirit, we are carnal and must change to be of the spirit. We have to change, the law does not, it is already of the Spirit and truth.

Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

As he also testifies, it is the carnal nature that is not subject to the law of God, not the spiritual nature.

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

How say you that keeping the commandments of God is of the flesh in direct contradiction to the words of Paul concerning the same. You accuse those who walk and act according to the spirit, of being carnal and of the flesh because they keep the spiritual law of God. What does this mean, but that those who break the law are of the spirit and not the flesh. Are you not the one Peter was referring to when he said the following?

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

You don't keep the spiritual law of God by the works of your carnal mind and flesh. You just think you do.

Otherwise there would be no need for the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Does the Lord Jesus help you to rest on saturdays? Does He help you to not kill people? I don't think so. The carnal man can rest on saturdays and not kill people. Judaism proves that.

Romans 9:30-33
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[michael56]

Do you think a person can be a Christian and not have a full understanding of what the law is meant for? Thereby thinking they must work at a portion of it to fulfill themselves?

I suppose what I am asking is, are any of us perfect believers? Do all of us have a portion of 'stiffneckedness' in us?

1 Corinthians 13:9-13
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I think it should say love instead of charity. But the end result is probably similar. Plus, I am no Greek scholar...

At the age of ten I went forward to respond to an altar call. I immediately knrew in my mind how God wanted me to live, and in my heart I wanted to obey. I believe God's laws that he desired me to keep, as happens under the new covenant were placed in me. If I had an impure thought, I didn't have to relate it to any particular commandment or teaching of Jesus, I immediately knew it was wrong-sinning before God. The problem was, I did not know the other core component of the new covenant at that time. I did not know my sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more. I did not know Christ was the end of the law unto righteousness. I tried so hard to live a good enough life for God, but simply became a worse sinner by doing so, as did Paul as a Pharisee(Rom 7:7-11) The commandments I believed would give me life if I obeyed them(in effect) instead brought death(condemnation) for I could not keep them. I became crushed and weighed down with guilt. I learned of grace when I was 20. I suppose I must answer your question with a question. If I had died before I was 20 and learnt of grace, was I saved in God's sight?

I love your posts by the way God Bless

 

[Grandpa]

At the age of ten I went forward to respond to an altar call. I immediately knrew in my mind how God wanted me to live, and in my heart I wanted to obey. I believe God's laws that he desired me to keep, as happens under the new covenant were placed in me. If I had an impure thought, I didn't have to relate it to any particular commandment or teaching of Jesus, I immediately knew it was wrong-sinning before God. The problem was, I did not know the other core component of the new covenant at that time. I did not know my sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more. I did not know Christ was the end of the law unto righteousness. I tried so hard to live a good enough life for God, but simply became a worse sinner by doing so, as did Paul as a Pharisee(Rom 7:7-11) The commandments I believed would give me life if I obeyed them(in effect) instead brought death(condemnation) for I could not keep them. I became crushed and weighed down with guilt. I learned of grace when I was 20. I suppose I must answer your question with a question. If I had died before I was 20 and learnt of grace, was I saved in God's sight?

I love your posts by the way God Bless

God knew you before the foundation of the world.

You didn't die before you turned 20 because God wanted you to know HIM. You don't know Him until you know His Grace.

Really, I can't answer your question. All I can say for sure is that you were always in Good Hands...

 

[gotime]

There is a law. It is our tutor to bring us to Christ.


When you work at it in your own understanding you make it into a law of a carnal commandment. Because you are carnal, a man in the flesh. All you really understand is your work and trying to be a 'good' person.

I don't mean to sound harsh to you but you can't do this by your work at the law, which is what the law is telling you;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It should be obvious that you can't do this by your work at the law.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

So how are you made perfect? By Grace through Faith. Same way as everything else that is freely given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not of works, lest any boast.

Whenever the NT talks about the law you always try to separate it into parts so that you can continue working at your favorite part. If the law were able to be separated into parts I wonder why the author of the bible didn't spell out what part he was referring to in order to avoid major confusion? It is because the law cannot be separated into parts. You can't abolish part of the law and keep your favorite parts.

I suppose it seems like I do the same thing by "spiritualizing" everything. I suppose you are probably right.

Galatians 5:5,18
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

not under the law? which law, you are probably asking yourself. The law of a carnal commandment. The 10 commandments that you work at in your own carnal understanding and strength.

If you are not given Eternal Life, you will not have Eternal Life.
If you are not made Perfect, you will not be Perfect.
If you are not given Obedience, you will not be Obedient.

This is the faith of Abraham. Jehovah Jireh. The Lord will provide everything that is needed for Eternal Life. I shall not want.

If it is by my works I already quit. I can't do it. Can't jump that high... lol

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

First of all I appreciate your responses, and I do respect you.

I agree the law is our tutor to lead us to Christ, that means we can understand Christ and His mission better by knowing the law.

As far as what you have said about carnal commandment, the problem I have is not what you say but how you use that term in a way other than what Paul used it for. but that being said I agree with the main point you are giving in that we cannot work at the law for salvation.

I would point out at this point that this is also true of the old covenant, works of the law could not save and working towards it was impossible even for them. That Is Paul's point, they failed because they worked at it rather than had faith in the God who promised.

You said: "Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It should be obvious that you can't do this by your work at the law."

I agree it is obvious that we can not do this by working at the law Just as Israel could not keep the Old Covenant by doing so. keeping in mind that they did not fail because what God asked could not be done, but rather because they tried by works and not faith.

YOu said: "So how are you made perfect? By Grace through Faith. Same way as everything else that is freely given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not of works, lest any boast. "

Amen to that.

you said: "Whenever the NT talks about the law you always try to separate it into parts so that you can continue working at your favorite part. If the law were able to be separated into parts I wonder why the author of the bible didn't spell out what part he was referring to in order to avoid major confusion? It is because the law cannot be separated into parts. You can't abolish part of the law and keep your favorite parts."

I only do that because in some places Paul speaks of the law as a past thing and other times it is present and good. I read the context and then go from there. I do this also because the law itself teaches that some aspects of it are eternal while others were not so. Paul agrees with this. We are not much different in this.

you yourself believe that to kill is against Gods command not just then but now also. now many say well that is because it is taught in the new testament. Yes it is but it is not new, its a continuation because even the law itself taught that the 10 commandments were to continue to the end of this world and beyond. Yet the law itself taught that the sacrifices would end and the feasts, and the curses of the law, not the blessings they were to continue.

I think the author did clearly spell out what parts he is referring to, but its only clear when you understand the law/tutor first. it becomes somewhat less clear if you do not. remember the Apostles teaching is based not on something new but on the tutor. They use it constantly to make their points.

you said: "If you are not given Eternal Life, you will not have Eternal Life.
If you are not made Perfect, you will not be Perfect.
If you are not given Obedience, you will not be Obedient."

yes, and yes and Yes. agree totally, this is my experience, when I first came to understand that the 10 commandments were still meant to be kept, I tried hard to do so, but always fell short on every one of them. it was not until I came to understand that For the one in Faith they became not commands but promises from God. That it was Him in us changing our hearts by Faith in His wonderful Grace. then suddenly I found myself able to have victory where before I could not.

As Far as the Sabbath its a little different. The Sabbath is just one part of the 1 law, not 10 laws but 1. One can keep it carnally very easily by simply not working from sunset Fri to sunset sat. but when faith came and the Grace of God came upon me I soon realized that while I was indeed resting from work on those times I was in Fact still breaking the Sabbath. Because there is only one way to keep it truly and only by faith, Only Holy People can keep the Sabbath Holy. and only God can make us holy by Faith. so it was not until I came to faith that God indeed gave me victory over sin that I could now keep the Sabbath. as it is written:

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

So the only way to really keep it is to be sanctified in the blood of Jesus. Now I can and do keep the Sabbath and it is still a sign between me and God that he is the one who makes me holy. It is no longer a carnal commandment as you would say. but rather faith filled spiritual reality.

When faith came, God was first not just in word but in deed.
don't kill not just in word but in deed and thought.
Sabbath kept not just in deed but in holiness from the Lord.

Every commandment is spiritual the works of them are but the fruit of Christ in us.

Thus we physically do not kill, steal, covet, we physically put God first and honor his name and keep the Sabbath as fruit of an transformed life in Christ.


you said: "If it is by my works I already quit. I can't do it. Can't jump that high... lol"

amen, it is too high for a man to reach, but not if that man puts His faith in the God of heaven in whom nothing is impossible.

The Sabbath is for those who are made Holy In Christ by faith. They rest both physically and spiritually. God works with the whole person not just the Spiritual. The physical always lines up with the Spiritual reality. I can not keep the Sabbath spiritually but not physically, for by doing so I deny my Lord and refuse to confess that He is the one who makes me Holy.

As baptism is a outward sign that I accept Christ.
As communion is a public deceleration of my acceptance of Jesus.

So Sabbath is a weekly deceleration of faith that it is my God who makes me Holy. a public deceleration that I am with Jesus. A proclamation and a remembering that the God who created all things has recreated me in His image.

ON that Day that God himself set aside to be a weekly anniversary and sign that we are His people. There is no other reason to keep the 7th day other then to honor God who made it holy.

 

[gotime]

It seems to me that the real issue is that you think the Sabbath was discontinued when Jesus came along.

I disagree, being that the Sabbath was made for man before, Moses, Abraham before Abel. The Sabbath was set aside before sin entered this world.

Of all the things Jesus came to fulfill The Sabbath could not be one of them. Jesus came to destroy sin and the works of the Devil.

Was the Sabbath the work of the Devil or God?

The Sabbath is also like the other commandments.

Can a man not kill and still be carnal? yes indeed.
can a man not kill and be in faith and not carnally keeping it? yes if faith produces that love which does not kill both in reality and in the mind etc.

so then can a man keep the Sabbath carnally? Yes if they simply keep it to obey the letter of the law.
Can a man keep the Sabbath by faith a not carnally? Yes indeed by faith in Gods transforming power.

They are the same, this means that one can not suggest simply that someone who keeps it and teaches others to do so is keeping it carnally.

 

[gotime]

If for one to keep the 7th day Sabbath and teach others to do so is carnal works.

then the same can be said of someone who does not steal and teaches others to do so.

There is no difference.

So the only Question really is this, should we keep the Sabbath or not according to Gods word?

Many of you say no, and many say Yes.

So lets speak to that question first. Its not enough to simply say the law is changed, we all know that on both sides. Yet we also know that some things remain. Like do not kill, still a high priest etc.

So by going back and fourth saying the law is changed the law is done achieves nothing.

We need to God back to the core of this issue, I suggest that the only way to do this honestly is to start from the very beginning of the bible and see what the bible says from beginning to end concerning the 7th day Sabbath.

This I will en devour to do.

 

[gotime]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The very first mention of a 7th day Sabbath what can we learn from this text and in what Way does Jesus impact it?

 

[gotime]

We know a few things from Gen 2.

1. God Rested on the 7th day from His work.

Question Does god get tired?

No not that we know of, but the word rest means to cease, stop. this makes sense because it says he was finished.

But God does more than just stop He does something to the day itself.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

1. He blessed it. what does that mean?

It is interesting to do a search on what happens when God blesses something, often it has to do with multiplication.

Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. Gen 1:28

Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: Gen 22:17

Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gen 24:35 Gods blessing multiplied everything:
Gen 24:35 And the LORD hath blessed my master greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses.




Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

even in the blessings of God to Israel:

Deu 30:9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

As you can see when God blesses something there is attached to that blessing or rather because of that blessing a multiplication.

So what then does it mean that God "blessed" the 7th day?

Maybe this is why a Jewish interpretation of this scripture goes like this:

Gen 2:3 God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce. (complete Jewish bible CJB)

so then the question might be asked what does the 7th day produce or multiply?

Well I suggest that it multiplies that which it was made for.

The verse itself gives the reason:

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He blessed it because he ceased from His work of creating which is said in this way in verse 1:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

So the blessing is because of a complete work done by God. therefore would it be accurate to suggest that this blessing produces completeness. a perfect work of God.

But why is this blessing attached to a day? the 7th day to be exact? simply because that was the day God completed his creative work.

notice also that God sanctified it, what dose that mean?

Well the word means to set apart as Holy. Remember we are talking about a day here, so God not only blessed it but set it apart as holy and for holy use.

Jos 7:13 Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.

here God says to set the people apart for Holiness because there is an accursed thing in thee. So God would have them remove the sinner from amount them.

In fact when you look at this word it is connected to making people holy or the things of Gods work holy and set apart.

Exo 19:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,

here a physical cleansing was attached to a spiritual cleansing.

Exo 19:22 And let the priests also, which come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.

Priests were also to be sanctified/made holy set apart for Holy Use.

Notice that we know God made the 7th day Holy and he also makes people holy. notice that the two are connected:

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

So it is evident that sanctification of people is attached to sanctification of the 7th day. why, because the 7th day represents Gods complete work of creation not just of the earth but recreation of the human being from sin into holiness.

SO,

1 God blessed the Sabbath a symbol of the complete work of God
2 God made it holy and set it apart Just as He makes people Holy and sets them apart.
3 The 7th day is a declaration of faith in Gods work of making us Holy.

 

[gotime]

The Sabbath also represent Gods complete work of making us holy in Jesus.

The cross actually makes the Sabbath a greater sign than it was at creation. because He who completed the heavens and the earth also completes me and you.

Maybe that is why Jesus declared it is finished on the fri and then ceased from His work on the Sabbath again because in Christ we are made Holy.

So then by not honoring the 7th day as set apart by God I am denying His complete work in me through Jesus.

 

[gotime]

note why was the Sabbath in the commandments for the Jews?

The answer is the same for all the other 9 commandments namely:

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Because God saved them. does this have any relevance to us?

Yes indeed lets look, what was the plague that freed them from slavery?

Exo 11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
Exo 11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

you now it the death of the firstborn. how were the Hebrews saved from this plague?

Now I could go into all the prophetic points in Exodus 12 about how the bones were not broken and the time of the lambs death to the hour and the day and the month of how He would die on the 6th day and rest the 7th which were all fulfilled in Jesus exactly as the Passover prophesied. but for shortness I will post one scripture:

1Co_5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Jesus is our exodus from slavery to sin as it is written:

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

We then keep the commandments for the exact same reason as the Jews did, because we have been freed from slavery to serve our God.

notice also that in Deut the same reason is specifically given to the Sabbath directly.

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The Sabbath was not only a sign of Gods complete work of creating the heavens and the earth but it was also a sign of Gods complete work in freeing us from sin as Israel was freed from slavery.

The Sabbath does not lessen in importance at the cross, it grows in its importance as was prophesied.



It is a gift from God only for those who have rest from slavery in Gods complete work. It is for those who have been washed and made holy in the blood of the lamb. It is sign between us and God that he is the Lord who makes us Holy.

The Sabbath is the Gospel in a day every week. It is a testimony to the loving character of God to the world. It cannot be kept by anyone who has not found rest in Jesus' works of salvation. For to enter it as a slave to sin is not to partake in His work of salvation from sin.

The Sabbath shows that God was always like this in character. For Adam and Eve did rest in the work of God for them in creating the world. not their own works but Gods. Those who keep the Sabbath declare aloud that it is not by our works that we are saved but by the completed work of our God and creator Jesus Christ.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Romans 13:9

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[4enlightment]

The Sabbath was more like a dress rehearsal but was use as practice, to prepare a person to be ready so that they'll be able to enter into the real rest. If I practice every weekend, how to forgive others after going through six days of hell with my enemies, then, one day, it should turn into a habit. But Jesus had stated to the pharisees, that they have neglected the most important matters of the law, and which they weren't showing mercy on others; if they were paying more attention to God and His word, and put them into practice, then they would of understand God's will.

 

[Grandpa]

Genesis 26:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Was Abraham ever charged or commanded to rest on saturdays? No.

Well why not? Didn't God want Abraham to be 'complete' and blessed?

Abraham was not commanded to rest on saturdays because Abraham believed God, trusted in God and it was accounted as Righteousness unto him.

Abraham already learned the lesson. He already rested in the provision and grace of God. He didn't transgress against the grace of God.

The Sabbath is a very important spiritual principle. But resting on saturdays is just a shadow of what the True Rest that the Lord Jesus Christ would give us would look like.

I don't understand how keeping a saturday sabbath is not working at the law. I don't understand how people who have come to Christ would want to compel saved Christians to go back to working at the law. I don't understand why people wouldn't want to rest in Christ every day, if that is what their 7th day sabbath truly is.


Matthew 22:35-40

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Really? ALL the law and the prophets?? Even the command to rest on the 7th day?? How does loving God and loving my neighbor cause me to rest on saturdays??

Well I don't see how it would cause me to rest on saturdays but I can definitely see how it would cause me to trust in Him and rest in His Grace and Goodness. By faith... Just like Abraham...

 

[michael56]

God knew you before the foundation of the world.

You didn't die before you turned 20 because God wanted you to know HIM. You don't know Him until you know His Grace.

Really, I can't answer your question. All I can say for sure is that you were always in Good Hands...

The only point I would raise is this. If I knew in my mind before I was 20 how God wanted me to live, and in my heart I wanted to obey, would that not mean the law God required me to keep had been written on my mind and placed on my heart already? Once that had happened am I not born again of the Holy Spirit? If I am, am I not saved? I believed Jesus died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, therefore I believed in saved by faith, kept for Heaven by obedience to the law in effect. I believed, much as someone would under the old covenant God would forgive my sins if I repented of them, but I still had to obey the law(in reality to get to Heaven) I believe the majority who go to church today believe the same thing. Few it seems to me actually fully believe in the grace Paul wrote of.

 

[gotime]

Genesis 26:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Was Abraham ever charged or commanded to rest on saturdays? No.

Well why not? Didn't God want Abraham to be 'complete' and blessed?

Abraham was not commanded to rest on saturdays because Abraham believed God, trusted in God and it was accounted as Righteousness unto him.

Abraham already learned the lesson. He already rested in the provision and grace of God. He didn't transgress against the grace of God.

The Sabbath is a very important spiritual principle. But resting on saturdays is just a shadow of what the True Rest that the Lord Jesus Christ would give us would look like.

I don't understand how keeping a saturday sabbath is not working at the law. I don't understand how people who have come to Christ would want to compel saved Christians to go back to working at the law. I don't understand why people wouldn't want to rest in Christ every day, if that is what their 7th day sabbath truly is.


Matthew 22:35-40

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Really? ALL the law and the prophets?? Even the command to rest on the 7th day?? How does loving God and loving my neighbor cause me to rest on saturdays??

Well I don't see how it would cause me to rest on saturdays but I can definitely see how it would cause me to trust in Him and rest in His Grace and Goodness. By faith... Just like Abraham...

The stuff about Abraham is an assumption is it not, do you know for sure that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath?

I agree its not specifically mentioned nor can I say he definitely did keep it.

The very fact that Abraham obeyed laws and statutes etc suggests God did indeed instruct Abraham.

anyway,

As to your Matthew 22:35-40 you do know that these are Old Covenant teachings?

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.


and:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


Yet they still obeyed the Sabbath. In fact love is even part of the commandments:

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Love has always been the foundation of the 10 commandments.

So indeed all the law rests on these two as it did in the Old Covenant also. even some Jews got that:

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

so hear Jesus asks what the law teaches and the man quotes those same two and Jesus says he was right.

So this is not new covenant only it was the very basis of the old Covenant. Yet they still kept the Sabbath as God commanded.

case in point,

what does it mean to love your neighbor according to the bible?

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So does love replace these things?

no love fulfills them. If I love my neighbor as God asks then I will not kill, steal, covet, spread false witness etc.

IF I do these things then I do not love.

SO what do you think then would cover the first four?

If the last 6 clearly are attached by Paul to loving our neighbor then loving God would naturally attach to the first Four with have to do with loving God.

When we love God we obey Him, we will always have no Gods before Him cause we love Him.

We will not worship anything els because we love Him

We would never take His name in vain because we love Him

We remember the Day that He blessed and set apart as Holy because we love Him.

Its all about loving God. and those who love God love those who are made in His image.

I am confused about something, people keep quoting those two commandments to love God and love our neighbor as if they are some replacement or different from the 10.

But they are not new as has been conclusively shown. Even When Israel was given the 10 commandments it was on the basis that we love God and love our neighbor. It was always meant to be by faith it was always in the heart.

So why do people keep using those two as if they are not connected to the 10?