Tired of the Big LIE

[dcontroversal]

The words you are trying to put in my mouth.

I agree...he seems to specialize in that.......as well as twisting what is said......

 

[Sirk]

that you are free to fail...those came out of your pen....and if you still believe that ....I am telling you that is not a healthy thought....

An unhealthy thought would be to think that I won't. Jesus doesn't put a scarlet letter on me. Why are you trying too?

 

[dcontroversal]

it is clear you do not understand the passage...



then your faith must be the same faith that Jesus had....you need to believe ...Jesus does not believe for you...




we are saved by grace through faith.....and a man is not justified by faith only....

James 2:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?





the above concerning the faith o Jesus is your opinion...


yes it is your view according to your opinion of the bible......If Christ came and told you the truth you will not change...


1)No a child of God will not live a continual lifestyle of sin
2)Scripture does not say your spirit must be born again...it says you must be born again...of water and of the spirit...
3)'were probably ' means you are speculating...and not certain of your statement...

You know....I could care less what you think dude...you consistently twist what people say, deny scripture in context and have regularly misrepresented the truth....

You trust yourself, your works and water.....so believe what you will....I will gladly wait to the day that Christ comes....then we will see who actual trusted into Jesus.....!

 

[posthuman]

(re: Galatians 2:16)

But the word doesn't even appear in the Greek...that's my point.

Anyhow, I wasn't posting that in opposition of what you had said, but rather because for the first time I understand what Dc has been going on about in relation to "the faith OF Christ"...and the word "of" isn't even in the text.

this is interesting, thanks for pointing it out -- it doesn't say "the faith of Christ" but the word form of "Christ" there is genitive = possessive case.
i.e. it would be correct to translate that "Christ's faith" -- right?

thanks -- thanks be to Christ!!

 

[Sirk]

I guess if I could just impart one message to those who believe they can get to heaven by being "good". Stop trying to be "good" and just be loved. Sit in the grace of Jesus. The righteousness that only He can give will follow......and maybe a little peace to go along with it.

 

[posthuman]

it is clear you do not understand the passage...



then your faith must be the same faith that Jesus had....you need to believe ...Jesus does not believe for you...

hang on now.

Jesus said we had to be more righteous than the pharisees. are we, on our own?
i'd say NO.

but -- has not our Lord clothed us with His own righteousness?
why then, if He has given us all things, do you think He cannot give us faith too?
is your *ahem* faith too small to believe that He could do this for you?

because the gospel i received was that He saves us -- not that He offers us a chance to save ourselves!
the gospel ain't "bad news" friend

 

[posthuman]

I guess if I could just impart one message to those who believe they can get to heaven by being "good". Stop trying to be "good" and just be loved. Sit in the grace of Jesus. The righteousness that only He can give will follow......and maybe a little peace to go along with it.

hey!
that's like my pastor's sermon this morning -- the topic:

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art anxious and troubled about many things:
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
(Luke 10:38-42)

Martha was busy running around trying to do things for Christ -- and angry at Mary for sitting at His feet. Jesus told her that "one thing is needful" -- that one thing? verse 39: Mary sat at His feet, and heard His word

pastor Dave taught me that i ought to spend less time trying to "do stuff" for Christ, and more time sitting at the Masters feet, to be taught of Him.
not that doing things for Him is a bad thing!! but like Christ said -- the needful thing is to hear His word

thanks Sirk! Christ just used you to wrap up the day for me!

thank the Beginning and the End, the Author and Perfector!

 

[kennethcadwell]

hang on now.

Jesus said we had to be more righteous than the pharisees. are we, on our own?
i'd say NO.

but -- has not our Lord clothed us with His own righteousness?
why then, if He has given us all things, do you think He cannot give us faith too?
is your *ahem* faith too small to believe that He could do this for you?

because the gospel i received was that He saves us -- not that He offers us a chance to save ourselves!
the gospel ain't "bad news" friend

The Lord does save us when we come to Him in faith after hearing the word and trusting in it to obey what it said out of love for Him. The Lord though gives us all a choice to accept Him, as He does not force people into faith in Him.
Then in order to inherit salvation one must receive remission of their sins, and some are falsely teaching that this comes from faith (1st acceptance) of Him. But the bible through the Lord and Peter both say remission comes after repentance and baptism (Luke 13:3, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

 

[Sirk]

hey!
that's like my pastor's sermon this morning -- the topic:

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art anxious and troubled about many things:
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
(Luke 10:38-42)

Martha was busy running around trying to do things for Christ -- and angry at Mary for sitting at His feet. Jesus told her that "one thing is needful" -- that one thing? verse 39: Mary sat at His feet, and heard His word

pastor Dave taught me that i ought to spend less time trying to "do stuff" for Christ, and more time sitting at the Masters feet, to be taught of Him.
not that doing things for Him is a bad thing!! but like Christ said -- the needful thing is to hear His word

thanks Sirk! Christ just used you to wrap up the day for me!

thank the Beginning and the End, the Author and Perfector!

So true! That is awesome. Love ya and appreciate you bro!

 

[posthuman]

Then in order to inherit salvation one must receive remission of their sins, and some are falsely teaching that this comes from faith (1st acceptance) of Him. But the bible through the Lord and Peter both say remission comes after repentance and baptism (Luke 13:3, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

isn't the thing that i have faith in exactly that He has propitiated all my sin?

and that being the reason i repent? the answer of a good conscience towards Him, believing i should act in a way that befits my new station in Him?

and baptism the thing He does to me with His Spirit in answer to my faith?
which i symbolize before men with water - the actual work being done by none other than the hand of my Good Shepherd?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I guess if I could just impart one message to those who believe they can get to heaven by being "good". Stop trying to be "good" and just be loved. Sit in the grace of Jesus. The righteousness that only He can give will follow......and maybe a little peace to go along with it.

Unfortunately that would be not be biblical to think that way, as the bible clearly states that we were created unto good works and not to walk in uncleanness.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

 

[kennethcadwell]

isn't the thing that i have faith in exactly that He has propitiated all my sin?

and that being the reason i repent? the answer of a good conscience towards Him, believing i should act in a way that befits my new station in Him?

and baptism the thing He does to me with His Spirit in answer to my faith?
which i symbolize before men with water - the actual work being done by none other than the hand of my Good Shepherd?

The thing is that people are teaching they receive remission before repentance and baptism.
The problem with that is the Lord says in Luke 13:3 that we will still perish if repentance is not made for sins, and puts baptism as part of the saving process of a believer in Mark 16:16. Not just faith alone, as He makes a point that faith followed by obedience to His teachings is what saves one into salvation. Peter confirms the two in Acts 2:38.
People are falsely teaching neither is needed, and they also want to debate Baptizo in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 which means immersed in water. This is the only baptism that man can do that is commanded !!!

 

[Sirk]

Unfortunately that would be not be biblical to think that way, as the bible clearly states that we were created unto good works and not to walk in uncleanness.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Of course it's not biblical if you don't take the gospel as a whole instead of the blacked out window you apparently see it thru. In all your disagreeing you can't see that we agree. I think that is what is so frustrating for me to converse with you. I think you're stuck at a blinking red light......you do know that you can go after you come to a complete stop? Just make sure no ones coming.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Of course it's not biblical if you don't take the gospel as a whole instead of the blacked out window you apparently see it thru. In all your disagreeing you can't see that we agree. I think that is what is so frustrating for me to converse with you. I think you're stuck at a blinking red light......you do know that you can go after you come to a complete stop? Just make sure no ones coming.

How do we agree when you just said in your post that I responded to we need to stop trying to be good?
I was showing how in the bible it says different, and sorry my brother but the bible calls us to point out fallacies with scripture. Not to let them slide by, and we are to do it in a respectful way which I do. As I am not hateful, name calling, nor disrespectful in my approach.

 

[Sirk]

How do we agree when you just said in your post that I responded to we need to stop trying to be good?
I was showing how in the bible it says different, and sorry my brother but the bible calls us to point out fallacies with scripture. Not to let them slide by, and we are to do it in a respectful way which I do. As I am not hateful, name calling, nor disrespectful in my approach.

I'm really sorry man but I won't be engaging with you any longer. I've got better thing s to do with my time. peace out.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'm really sorry man but I won't be engaging with you any longer. I've got better thing s to do with my time. peace out.

Sorry you feel that way, as I am only doing as God's word instructs us to do................

 

[newbirth]

An unhealthy thought would be to think that I won't. Jesus doesn't put a scarlet letter on me. Why are you trying too?

why do you say that???
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[newbirth]

You know....I could care less what you think dude...you consistently twist what people say, deny scripture in context and have regularly misrepresented the truth....

You trust yourself, your works and water.....so believe what you will....I will gladly wait to the day that Christ comes....then we will see who actual trusted into Jesus.....!

why wait until then?....I am certain of whom I trust....I show you your error in scripture and you harden your heart...what did I twist...??? you follow your view and your opinion not Christ

 

[JesusistheChrist]

(re: Galatians 2:16)



this is interesting, thanks for pointing it out -- it doesn't say "the faith of Christ" but the word form of "Christ" there is genitive = possessive case.
i.e. it would be correct to translate that "Christ's faith" -- right?

thanks -- thanks be to Christ!!

I'm certainly NOT a Greek scholar, but it seems to me that we need to determine whether or not a genitive is "subjective" or "objective" in order to properly assess what is actually being said:

https://www.teknia.com/blog/how-can-genitive-mean-“in”-gal-216

Genitive

Someone asked, “I am curious why Gal 2:16; 3:22, and Rom 3:22, 26, are translated as ‘faith in Christ’ when the genitive case is used.”

Good question.

Gal 2:16 reads, “yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but through faith (διὰ πίστεως) in Jesus Christ (Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ).” The other verses are quite similar in their use of πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

Someone once told me that a simple way to look at the genitive is to see all genitives as either subjective or objective, if the head noun contains a verbal idea. Either the word in the genitive produces (“subjective”) or receives (“objective”) the verbal idea in the head noun. This may be a bit simplistic, but it has helped me a lot through the years.

If Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ is a subjective genitive, then it refers to the faith produced by Jesus, his own faith; and so the KJV reads, “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.” The only modern translation I checked that goes this direction is the NET: “yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.”

If it is an objective genitive, then it refers to the faith received by Jesus. Most translations believe it is the latter (including the NKJV), but how do you say that we are justified by faith when Jesus is the object of our faith? In English, you say “in Jesus.”

That is the answer to the question.

Part of translation is realizing that your task is to say the same thing in one language that is said in another; the nice, neat divisions we often create in first year Greek don’t ways let us do this. The genitive does not always mean “of,” and the dative does not always mean “in.” What you have to do is look at the deeper grammatical data, see what is said in one language, and try to say the same thing in the other language.

I like what is contained in this article...

Faith "in" or "of" Jesus? - Romans 3:22

...because it points out how the translators of the KJV translated the two same exact Greek words, "pisteôs Iêsou", in two different manners in Paul's epistle to the Romans:

Romans chapter 3

[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Yes, "faith OF Jesus" and "believeth IN Jesus" both read exactly the same in the underlying Greek, so, again, it depends upon whether or not a genitive is "subjective" or "objective" and that seems to be a matter of differing opinions in different instances.

 

[newbirth]

hang on now.

Jesus said we had to be more righteous than the pharisees. are we, on our own?
i'd say NO.

but -- has not our Lord clothed us with His own righteousness?
why then, if He has given us all things, do you think He cannot give us faith too?
is your *ahem* faith too small to believe that He could do this for you?

because the gospel i received was that He saves us -- not that He offers us a chance to save ourselves!
the gospel ain't "bad news" friend

yes he saved you ....the onus is upon you to remain saved in him ...can you be ignorant of his teachings and still be in Him?? why did he say learn of me....why did he give you power??? why did he give you strength...are you a babe that he should give you food and feed you too??? be a man and take up his yoke....do you know two cannot be unequally yoked else one will hinder the other...


Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.