Tired of the Big LIE

[Jason0047]

.

You are 100% right.

Actually, no he is not. He has a world view that is simply just not true. I have talked with many people both online and in person who believe they can sin and still be saved. DC and you may not believe it, but these people do exist in great number. They say the same thing as you guys sometimes do and it is confusing (And leads people down the wrong path because many of you do not clearly explain yourselves). What do I mean? As I have said before in a previous thread, most here make the claim that your sins are forgiven, past, present, and future. Then you stop and don't say anything more. This is extremely dangerous to say because you are not promoting holiness as the mark of what makes up a true believer. Oh sure, you may say it later in another forum. But people who just happen to browse on this forum and read what you had written are not going to read everything you write. For when you say that your future sin is forgiven and then say no more it leads people to think they do have a license to sin. For if there was a law passed that allowed people to not get a ticket for speeding on the highway, then more people are going to speed. It is only natural. A lot of people obey various certain laws because they know there are bad consequences if you don't obey them. Most OSAS proponents I have ran into here do not distinguish between the true believer and the false believer who believes all their sin is forgiven: past, present, and future. In other words, if God gave many people the ability where they would never get fat and they would be super healthy no matter what they ate and or how they lived, then what do you think is going to happen in time? Well, more people are going to eat more bad things and or not worry about exercising as much. There are no consequences. They can now live how they like.

Oh, and the chastening of the Lord is not really that great of deterrent for a believer who is set on doing evil, either. If they believe they are saved and nothing they do can separate them from the love of Christ, then they will sin habitually the rest of their life and live however they please. Why? Because non believers go thru the same type of suffering, hardships, and death that believers go thru. In fact, all who live Godly will suffer persecution and not great comfort and amazing things in this life. Jesus and the apostles lived a life of self sacrifice and were persecuted greatly.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Some feel justified as a Christian for their continual arguments on CC for their point of view - that is really sad - i am a christian because I argue on CC

 

[dcontroversal]

Only by your standards and opinions do you state that, not on actual truth as I have not be refuted numerous times on here. Only by you and one other have you tried to say I have been in the wrong on scriptures. The retact is that me and many others have come back and shown how you and the other were in error.
You want to state things based on your understanding and your form of the truth, and if that is how you feel the more then merry to you. However pretty much each time you have tried, I have come back with scriptural evidence that refutes what you said. Then your retact is to get even more negative, and even resort to name calling because of it.
This my brother is not the way of the Lord, as the way of the Lord is to have friendly loving debates between each other. Not resort to those ways, as once again I will restate the gospel message in a nutshell is salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ by faith in Him and His teachings to repent, be baptized, and walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy to all others.

To reject the underlined would be to reject the whole message of the Lord !!!

CASE in POINT.....Your refusal to acknowledge that you miss the mark and refuse sound doctrine.....

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

..However I will disagree with you on the physical death part, as we are all appointed to physical death in the flesh from Adams sin, not our own. The death that we are appointed to keep from facing by our faith, which consists of believing in Him and following what He said is the second death; spiritual death in the lake of fire.

MY REPLY
1. The word ALL is not found in the text.....It is appointed unto men once to die....
2. NOT ALL WILL die....WE which are ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye.....
3. God has consistently used premature physical death throughout history to punish those who have sinned while yet being identified with the children of God

ONE OF MANY........

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually, no he is not. He has a world view that is simply just not true. I have talked with many people both online and in person who believe they can sin and still be saved. DC and you may not believe it, but these people do exist in great number. They say the same thing as you guys sometimes do and it is confusing (And leads people down the wrong path because many of you do not clearly explain yourselves). What do I mean? As I have said before in a previous thread, most here make the claim that your sins are forgiven, past, present, and future. Then you stop and don't say anything more. This is extremely dangerous to say because you are not promoting holiness as the mark of what makes up a true believer. Oh sure, you may say it later in another forum. But people who just happen to browse on this forum and read what you had written are not going to read everything you write. For when you say that your future sin is forgiven and then say no more it leads people to think they do have a license to sin. For if there was a law passed that allowed people to not get a ticket for speeding on the highway, then more people are going to speed. It is only natural. A lot of people obey various certain laws because they know there are bad consequences if you don't obey them. Most OSAS proponents I have ran into here do not distinguish between the true believer and the false believer who believes all their sin is forgiven: past, present, and future. In other words, if God gave many people the ability where they would never get fat and they would be super healthy no matter what they ate and or how they lived, then what do you think is going to happen in time? Well, more people are going to eat more bad things and or not worry about exercising as much. There are no consequences. They can now live how they like.

Oh, and the chastening of the Lord is not really that great of deterrent for a believer who is set on doing evil, either. If they believe they are saved and nothing they do can separate them from the love of Christ, then they will sin habitually the rest of their life and live however they please. Why? Because non believers go thru the same type of suffering, hardships, and death that believers go thru. In fact, all who live Godly will suffer persecution and not great comfort and amazing things in this life. Jesus and the apostles lived a life of self sacrifice and were persecuted greatly.

This coming from someone who breaks salvation down to diet meals and (lite) versions HAHAHAHAH funny for sure!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For the record....I am tired of the fact that people who teach you can loose your salvation continually spread concerning people who believe in the security of the believer....

We believe that once a person trusts into the saving faith of Christ they are saved, sealed and justified forever.

It is the spirit that is born of God, does not sin, is eternally secure in the perfect faith of JESUS

WE do not teach that this is license to sin beyond degree or live anyway we want<--this is the LIE that is spread by those who teach you can loose your salvation.

The bible teaches clearly that EVERYONE sins and that is why JOHN writes....IF WE CONFESS our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins<--NO WHERE does he say that you are reborn because you lost it.

The bible teaches that if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) the truth is NOT IN US AND WE ARE DECIEVED.

I AM TIRED of PEOPLE MISREPRESENTING the TRUTH and APPLYING THINGS AND SAYINGS to US that we do not teach and or PROMOTE.....

Aww come on Bro.

You going to attack the pride of the legalist. WHo refuses to repent and give their whole eternity to jesus, but want to take their eternity into their own hands.

How dare you. in this kindler, gentler, non judgmental world. We are not supposed to judge..lol

 

[tribesman]

Aww come on Bro.

You going to attack the pride of the legalist. WHo refuses to repent and give their whole eternity to jesus, but want to take their eternity into their own hands.

How dare you. in this kindler, gentler, non judgmental world. We are not supposed to judge..lol

Oh it have to be ME in it..else God is unfair and I cannot boast in my efforts! LOL!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh it have to be ME in it..else God is unfair and I cannot boast in my efforts! LOL!

they want a feel good salvation they can see (by their own actions) which is not faith at all.

Faith is the substance (the result of) things which can not be seen, It is based on our hope.

What is our hope?

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, Who can not lie, Promised before time began"

If I do not have secured in my possession eternal life. I have no hope.

No hope. no faith.

no faith, no salvation, period.

 

[Jason0047]

This coming from someone who breaks salvation down to diet meals and (lite) versions HAHAHAHAH funny for sure!

First, the labels only exist because people have different beliefs in regards to OSAS. Second, your poking fun at the topic does not really resolve the problem I brought up in regards to your teaching on OSAS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First, the labels only exist because people have different beliefs in regards to OSAS. Second, your poking fun at the topic does not really resolve the problem I brought up in regards to your teaching on OSAS.

Its not a laughing matter, peoples eternity are at stake!

 

[dcontroversal]

they want a feel good salvation they can see (by their own actions) which is not faith at all.

Faith is the substance (the result of) things which can not be seen, It is based on our hope.

What is our hope?

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, Who can not lie, Promised before time began"

If I do not have secured in my possession eternal life. I have no hope.

No hope. no faith.

no faith, no salvation, period.

Amen to this for sure.........there is no hope in works to gain, keep and or facilitate eternal life.
It leads to...did I do enough, what if I am one short, and the fear of what if I sin, will I be lost and not to mention the foolish statement....well I have a certain amount of time to repent and get my salvation back....HOW much time...1 hour, a day...maybe a week.....folly and fear, no faith into the work of Christ which was finished before the casting down of the world.....!

 

[Jason0047]

they want a feel good salvation they can see (by their own actions) which is not faith at all.

Faith is the substance (the result of) things which can not be seen, It is based on our hope.

What is our hope?

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, Who can not lie, Promised before time began"

If I do not have secured in my possession eternal life. I have no hope.

No hope. no faith.

no faith, no salvation, period.

So living a holy and penitent life is not necessary for salvation? If this is what you are saying then please show me where in the Bible you can live like the devil and still be saved?

 

[dcontroversal]

First, the labels only exist because people have different beliefs in regards to OSAS. Second, your poking fun at the topic does not really resolve the problem I brought up in regards to your teaching on OSAS.

I would think that people who don't have genuine faith would sit around and make up labels so they can justify what they believe......Kind of like....

I will take a helping of salvation, a large baptism and a side order of works......oh...I mean....could you leave a few blessings off as I am on a diet and want the lite version.....

You see how foolish this looks and sounds......?

 

[dcontroversal]

So living a holy and penitent life is not necessary for salvation? If this is what you are saying then please show me where in the Bible you can live like the devil and still be saved?

Point of the OP proven again....he didn't say that...Nor do we promote that.........!

 

[royalscot]

The Lord did not give the whole entire 613 Mosaic laws in the gospel books.
He gave the moral law of God that is contained within the 10 commandments that is now written in our hearts as believers, as well as He gave the milk of the word as in the first steps that a believer must take to become born again. Faith from hearing, repentance of sins, baptism, continuance in confession in Him, and forgiveness of others. The only thing any other Apostle was charged with was Paul who was commissioned to give the meat of the word. Hince the multiple times he gave lists of what can not be part of a believers life, and the lists of what does have to be part of a believers life. Your context on how you have been taught that the timing matters is faulty, as the Lord gave the milk; first steps one must take to become born again.
Then Paul gave the meat; the way in which a true born again believer must walk, and can not walk....

time and dates prove there was a time and a place , that things happened.
again corneilius 10

37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed:3

my context is bang on. tell me how this answers my quote.


speculation, if it wrote on our hearts then why are you quoting from the bible.
then why did acts 15 meet. because no matter how, you look at it, a gentiles were never given this law.
a gentile could not enter the main part of the temple of stone.

so being made equal to jewish people was not through law.
by gods grace to both by believing jesus.

1)and how did the gentile get this book. (the bible)


when did they get the holy spirit. was jesus back in heaven. about 32ad.
when did a new covenant start.
did cornelius already believe there was a god before sending for peter.
how dose this answer acts 15. 48ad. to what law the gentile should get, did they say the full law of moses, or the 10 commands.

again was it the same law that jesus was talking about in the gospels. to a jewish people under the law given to moses.
act 15 already told you that it is not the same, law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So living a holy and penitent life is not necessary for salvation? If this is what you are saying then please show me where in the Bible you can live like the devil and still be saved?

please show me in the bible where you at any point in your life can live up to the standard of the law. and be good enough to be saved.

then show me in scripture where a child of God can live worse than he lived before he was filled with the HS (since the HS will chasten him when he gets out of line to keep him in line.

your problem is you do not understand the law. and Gods vew of what true righteousness is, and instead try to establish your own righteousness. which falls so short of Gods righteousness. you will never make it.

 

[The_highwayman]

So living a holy and penitent life is not necessary for salvation? If this is what you are saying then please show me where in the Bible you can live like the devil and still be saved?

NO because salvation is not based on anything you do, but everything Jesus did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen to this for sure.........there is no hope in works to gain, keep and or facilitate eternal life.
It leads to...did I do enough, what if I am one short, and the fear of what if I sin, will I be lost and not to mention the foolish statement....well I have a certain amount of time to repent and get my salvation back....HOW much time...1 hour, a day...maybe a week.....folly and fear, no faith into the work of Christ which was finished before the casting down of the world.....!

again, they can not fathom the true meaning of the law.

at any given time in a persons life. if that person appeared before God, and next to him was adolf hitler, and mother theresa. all three would be condemned by the law. and suffer eternal death.

the only thing that can save them is the blood of Christ, the sacrificial law, who was shed on the mercy seat, and hides our sin,

Redemption is God paid a price. he bought us with his blood. he is not going to just let us go.

 

[dcontroversal]

again, they can not fathom the true meaning of the law.

at any given time in a persons life. if that person appeared before God, and next to him was adolf hitler, and mother theresa. all three would be condemned by the law. and suffer eternal death.

the only thing that can save them is the blood of Christ, the sacrificial law, who was shed on the mercy seat, and hides our sin,

Redemption is God paid a price. he bought us with his blood. he is not going to just let us go.

I agree...the bible is clear...every sin I would commit was paid for some 1970 plus years ago, was nailed to the cross, placed as far as the East is from the West and covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.....

 

[thecreationtutor]

Pointless debate, people are convinced of their will on both sides. Let them walk by what they are convinced, and their fruit will show, ultimately God will judge. If your truly convinced, people will see that fruit, glorify God, and there is your opportunity to share why you fall on that position.

If it's wrong, it will just lead to people's enslavement and create a caricature of life, numbed down by their failures. Sure at a certain point you try to reason with them, but why let it steal your own Joy? Or why let it strengthen their point in their own eyes. Walk in the fear of the Lord, knowing it is God who works in you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Pointless debate, people are convinced of their will on both sides. Let them walk by what they are convinced, and their fruit will show, ultimately God will judge. If your truly convinced, people will see that fruit, glorify God, and there is your opportunity to share why you fall on that position.

If it's wrong, it will just lead to people's enslavement and create a caricature of life, numbed down by their failures. Sure at a certain point you try to reason with them, but why let it steal your own Joy? Or why let it strengthen their point in their own eyes. Walk in the fear of the Lord, knowing it is God who works in you.

I thank God someone did not allow me to keep believing the lie. and loved me enough to show me truth. not worried about how it would offend me.