lets talk about gay people!!!

[kaylagrl]

But you can without making GOd out to be angry with everyone until you believe...

I seem to recall it was For God so loved....not For God was so angry until you believe.

There has to be a balance.I mean growing up when I got in trouble for doing something wrong I knew my parents were displeased and yes sometimes angry but I knew they loved me.I think you need to balance the message with both love and Gods displeasure at sin.Like I mentioned before Edwards famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" began a revival.

 

[Willie-T]

Ok now Im confused.I thought you believed OSAS I dont. Skipping to your last sentence I agree with that.Acting like a good person wont save you.Its a heart matter.Not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing now.

Was there a post where I said anything, one way or another, about believing in OSAS?

No, I don't think there was.

But, to make it clear, I DO, emphatically, believe that no sins nor anything else can snatch us from God's hand, nor put us "out of fellowship" with Him, nor "separate" us from Him.

I am still not believing that we are unable to turn our backs on God, and lose our home. Yes, I think WE can blow it, but not that God will disown us for the sinning that each and every one of us do almost every day of our lives.

 

[Willie-T]

There has to be a balance.I mean growing up when I got in trouble for doing something wrong I knew my parents were displeased and yes sometimes angry but I knew they loved me.I think you need to balance the message with both love and Gods displeasure at sin.Like I mentioned before Edwards famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" began a revival.

Lord, don't get me started on that twisted piece of composition. That probably did more harm to the message of Jesus than anything has in hundreds of years.

Jonathan did a lot of good, but he really messed up with that sermon.

 

[kaylagrl]

Was there a post where I said anything, one way or another, about believing in OSAS?

No, I don't think there was.

But, to make it clear, I DO, emphatically, believe that no sins nor anything else can snatch us from God's hand, nor put us "out of fellowship" with Him, nor "separate" us from Him.

I am still not believing that we are unable to turn our backs on God, and lose our home. Yes, I think WE can blow it, but not that God will disown us for the sinning that each and every one of us do almost every day of our lives.

No I dont believe God will disown us if we mess up either.I think we need to repent of it and as mature Christians we should be sinning everyday.Still working to mature that much myself. I dont think sin can snatch us from his hand either but we can always choose to walk away form God and back into sin.

 

[kaylagrl]

Lord, don't get me started on that twisted piece of composition. That probably did more harm to the message of Jesus than anything has in hundreds of years.

Jonathan did a lot of good, but he really messed up with that sermon.

Really you think so? Why is that?

 

[ForthAngel]

I believe in election, so I will be at odds with all of you on this one

On a side note about the fearing God thing:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom - true or false?

 

[Willie-T]

I believe in election, so I will be at odds with all of you on this one

On a side note about the fearing God thing:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom - true or false?

Only if you are using the original meaning... awesome respect.

 

[The_highwayman]

There has to be a balance.I mean growing up when I got in trouble for doing something wrong I knew my parents were displeased and yes sometimes angry but I knew they loved me.I think you need to balance the message with both love and Gods displeasure at sin.Like I mentioned before Edwards famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" began a revival.

Here are the 10 considerations from this message you keep touting.....I will do the first one as an example of where the Bible Refutes the first consideration and it will be in bold red: Most theologians agree that this message likely induced thousands of false conversions and the great awaking was based solely on an angry God casting people into hell....It is the same tired old lie, that we lived through in the late 60's, all through the 70's, 80's and 90's and still is used by certain denominations as a weapon today....

I don't know how many I have prayed with at the altar or on a prayer line who said they were scared into salvation.
Jesus has strong words for those who use scare tactics to induce false conversions The emphasis should not be placed upon hell but by the fact that God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to show His love for mankind...This is why understanding of grace is so important....

ten "considerations" from the message "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"

1. God may cast wicked men into hell at any given moment.
   refuted by 2 Peter 3.9 which says:
   The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2. The Wicked deserve to be cast into hell. Divine justice does not prevent God from destroying the Wicked at any moment.
3. The Wicked, at this moment, suffer under God's condemnation to Hell.
4. The Wicked, on earth - at this very moment - suffer the torments of Hell. The Wicked must not think, simply because they are not physically in Hell, that God (in Whose hand the Wicked now reside) is not - at this very moment - as angry with them as He is with those miserable creatures He is now tormenting in hell, and who - at this very moment - do feel and bear the fierceness of His wrath.
5. At any moment God shall permit him, Satan stands ready to fall upon the Wicked and seize them as his own.
6. If it were not for God's restraints, there are, in the souls of wicked men, hellish principles reigning which, presently, would kindle and flame out into hellfire.
7. Simply because there are not visible means of death before them at any given moment, the Wicked should not feel secure.
8. Simply because it is natural to care for oneself or to think that others may care for them, men should not think themselves safe from God's wrath.
9. All that wicked men may do to save themselves from Hell's pains shall afford them nothing if they continue to reject Christ.
10. God has never promised to save us from Hell, except for those contained in Christ through the covenant of Grace.

There are some truths in this message but it is overshadowed by the error that God will throw anyone in hell at any moment.

 

[Willie-T]

Really you think so? Why is that?

Well, (it's been a few years), as I recall, that message of "love" directly resulted in 12 suicides. And one was either Edward's cousin, or his nephew. It was just "fear-mongering" to get a crowd of people to the front of the church.

 

[The_highwayman]

No I dont believe God will disown us if we mess up either.I think we need to repent of it and as mature Christians we should be sinning everyday.Still working to mature that much myself. I dont think sin can snatch us from his hand either but we can always choose to walk away form God and back into sin.

SIN is a choice not an action, the Bible clearly states this in GEN 3, James 1, 2 Peter 1 and 1 John 2...

 

[The_highwayman]

I believe in election, so I will be at odds with all of you on this one

On a side note about the fearing God thing:

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom - true or false?

Yes the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom to those who have started to renew their mind to the mind of Christ.

A lost person cannot nor will not understand the fear of the Lord and you are struggling wiht it... The Fear tlaked about in Proverbs is a healthy reverential attitude, not conforming to the law based on the terror God is going to cast you out....

But since you beleive in election and predestination it will never sink in with you...TULIP is a lie from hell....

 

[Willie-T]

No I dont believe God will disown us if we mess up either.I think we need to repent of it and as mature Christians we should be sinning everyday.Still working to mature that much myself. I dont think sin can snatch us from his hand either but we can always choose to walk away form God and back into sin.

I can't agree with this. I DON'T believe we should be sinning every day.

Now that we have covered the fact that you didn't proofread that post too well... Yes, I know what you meant.

But we still do. Just review each of our own private thoughts at various times in this one thread, alone. Forums are good mirrors for us..... if we will look.

 

[Willie-T]

BTW, K, it's not "walking back into sin" (the Prodigal Son did that), but rather turning to disbelief.

As I will constantly repeat, it is NOT about actions, but about our beliefs.

 

[ForthAngel]

Yes the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom to those who have started to renew their mind to the mind of Christ.

A lost person cannot nor will not understand the fear of the Lord and you are struggling wiht it... The Fear tlaked about in Proverbs is a healthy reverential attitude, not conforming to the law based on the terror God is going to cast you out....

But since you beleive in election and predestination it will never sink in with you...TULIP is a lie from hell....

Pretty harsh judgments from you I think, but I can respect your views.

God is to be feared, both reverently and, well, fearfully. To downplay this fear into a mere respect and nothing more is to decrease that very same respect. So you can't respect Him only and not fear Him in the sense of real fear. It's this fear of His condemnation and judgement that drew me to Him initially and I can be thankful for that. It's what caused me to realize I was a sinner before a God who operates His wrath on the children of disobedience. It's that same fear that showed me He does judge and make war against those who oppose Him. This is the highest respect for our King and our God, knowing He is perfect and holy and righteous in all that He does and is the only one capable of condemning us to hell in the end. Without that fear and recognition of my own transgressions, I would not have found Him, nor known His boundless love and forgiveness.

God hates. God judges. God makes war. God condemns. God operates in His wrath. These can't be disputed and to fear Him for what He is, the God of all things, is a healthy fear for a sinner lost in their transgressions, who by this fear become aware that they are sinners lost in their transgressions. They are then capable, by God's divine grace and gift, to turn from their sins and trust and rely on Him, because they then realize that He is the only way and nothing they can do will ever be enough to please Him or save themselves. By this very same fear, they confess He is God and King and submit to Him in utter despair and sorrow over their own fallen state. By this very same fear that leads them here, He lifts them up and puts His Spirit in them and causes them to walk in His statues and conforms them to the image of Christ with boundless love and patience and forgiveness.

You have every right I suppose to say I am struggling to understand this fear, but I think it's quite the contrary and would turn that back around on you and claim the same of you.

 

[kaylagrl]

I can't agree with this. I DON'T believe we should be sinning every day.

Now that we have covered the fact that you didn't proofread that post too well... Yes, I know what you meant.

But we still do. Just review each of our own private thoughts at various times in this one thread, alone. Forums are good mirrors for us..... if we will look.

No,no,no that was a typo lol Trying to put on a roast for hubby and post at the same time can't walk and chew gum I guess.

 

[kaylagrl]

Here are the 10 considerations from this message you keep touting.....I will do the first one as an example of where the Bible Refutes the first consideration and it will be in bold red: Most theologians agree that this message likely induced thousands of false conversions and the great awaking was based solely on an angry God casting people into hell....It is the same tired old lie, that we lived through in the late 60's, all through the 70's, 80's and 90's and still is used by certain denominations as a weapon today....

I don't know how many I have prayed with at the altar or on a prayer line who said they were scared into salvation.
Jesus has strong words for those who use scare tactics to induce false conversions The emphasis should not be placed upon hell but by the fact that God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to show His love for mankind...This is why understanding of grace is so important....

ten "considerations" from the message "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"

1. God may cast wicked men into hell at any given moment.
   refuted by 2 Peter 3.9 which says:
   The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2. The Wicked deserve to be cast into hell. Divine justice does not prevent God from destroying the Wicked at any moment.
3. The Wicked, at this moment, suffer under God's condemnation to Hell.
4. The Wicked, on earth - at this very moment - suffer the torments of Hell. The Wicked must not think, simply because they are not physically in Hell, that God (in Whose hand the Wicked now reside) is not - at this very moment - as angry with them as He is with those miserable creatures He is now tormenting in hell, and who - at this very moment - do feel and bear the fierceness of His wrath.
5. At any moment God shall permit him, Satan stands ready to fall upon the Wicked and seize them as his own.
6. If it were not for God's restraints, there are, in the souls of wicked men, hellish principles reigning which, presently, would kindle and flame out into hellfire.
7. Simply because there are not visible means of death before them at any given moment, the Wicked should not feel secure.
8. Simply because it is natural to care for oneself or to think that others may care for them, men should not think themselves safe from God's wrath.
9. All that wicked men may do to save themselves from Hell's pains shall afford them nothing if they continue to reject Christ.
10. God has never promised to save us from Hell, except for those contained in Christ through the covenant of Grace.

There are some truths in this message but it is overshadowed by the error that God will throw anyone in hell at any moment.

Right some truths,cant take anything too far,have to have balance.He said God may,not will is that correct. Dont have time to check it.Yes God is long suffering but sin cant enter heaven.You cant continue in sin,flout God and think that will by ok.

 

[Willie-T]

The funniest thing about "election" is that believers in that concept NEVER happen to be one of those NOT chosen. Interesting how that works out.

 

[ForthAngel]

The funniest thing about "election" is that believers in that concept NEVER happen to be one of those NOT chosen. Interesting how that works out.

This is a moot point since all who claim they are saved, claim they are saved, whether by election or otherwise

We appeal to these verses as does everyone else regardless of belief in election or not (or should rather):

2 Corinthians 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[JFSurvivor]

Ok so I meant to post this last night but I fell asleep:

My bf's cousin recently came out as gay. She said she has a gf and my bf's dad (who is kinda like her adopted dad) said that eventhough he doesn't agree with her, he still loves her. My bf was so so so happy no one broke out yelling and in a way so am I.

I'm happy no one was mean to her but I'm sad that she is living in sin. Is this a godly attitude?

Also prayers for her would be appreciated. Ik this isn't the prayer request forum but hey, two birds with one stone, right?

Thanks!

 

[The_highwayman]

Right some truths,cant take anything too far,have to have balance.He said God may,not will is that correct. Dont have time to check it.Yes God is long suffering but sin cant enter heaven.You cant continue in sin,flout God and think that will by ok.

I have never stated that you continue in SIN, I have stated that by grace you are saved, not by fear