Tired of the Big LIE

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
So you are trying say the same standards that apply to those Christians don't apply to all Christians ?

That would be a faulty way of looking at things, as the word makes it clear that any form of willful sins that a person chooses to walk in will lead them to the second death in the lake of fire and not eternal life through Christ.
How hard is it for you and a few others to understand you can not serve two masters, and get eternal life. You can not serve sin and the Lord, you can not love Him and hate others, you can not serve Him but deny to follow His commands. It just does not mix, and you will not end up in heaven if you are disobedient.....



You forgot to call me an IDIOT....and you still fail to understand a few things...

Who is the book written to....HEBREW CHRISTIANS who were wanting to go back UNDER THE LAW AND THE OLD WAYS while TRYING to MIX FAITH AND THE WORKS OF THE LAW......You guys take the cake and top awards in the ability to twist, miss context and apply scripture where scripture is not applied.....

Whatever dude.....believe what you will....!

QUOTE=JesusistheChrist;1892778]Actually, here's your "quote" IN CONTEXT:

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 5:20-6:2)

What is it about God forbid that we should continue in sin that you don't understand?

What is it about being dead to sin that you don't understand?

Plenty, obviously.


Here's your "putting Him to an open shame" reference IN CONTEXT, too:

Hebrews chapter 6

[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

These people were CHRISTIANS who had "laid the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God and of the doctrine of baptisms and of laying on of hands and of resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment"...

These people were CHRISTIANS "who were once enlightened"...

These people were CHRISTIANS "who had tasted of the heavenly gift"...

These people were CHRISTIANS "who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost"...

These people were CHRISTIANS "who had tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come"...

These people were CHRISTIANS AND IF THEY FELL AWAY, WHICH FALSE TEACHERS LIKE YOU INSIST ISN'T POSSIBLE, THEN IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE SEEING HOW THEY WOULD NEED TO CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME...

Having suffered through your posts and the posts of several others who are as deceived as you are for quite some time now, I can only conclude that you and they have no concept of salvation whatsoever and what we were actually saved FROM:

SIN!

Your comments cheapen the grace of God and do despite unto the very Spirit of grace, the Holy Spirit, in that you and people just like you insinuate that the Holy Spirit isn't truly capable of giving us the power to not sin. Yes, your comments which I've suffered through blaspheme the very work of the cross in that you regularly insinuate that Christ's atonement wasn't sufficient to undo the very sin that was brought into this world via the first Adam or that we must continue in abounding sin so that Christ's grace might somehow abound as your Bible allegedly teaches you in your warped and twisted (mis-) understanding of the same as you, ironically, accuse others of "tweaking and twisting". Your "grace" is no grace at all, but rather a "DIS-grace"...literally.

Well, just ignore Hebrews chapter 6 as you regularly ignore the rest of the epistle to the Hebrews and about half of the New Testament or all of the warnings given to CHRISTIANS throughout the scriptures. Yea, just say something childish, as is your modus operandi, like "blah, blah, blah" and "HAHAHAHA!" while simultaneously ignoring the very Word of God which is regularly set before your closed eyes.

The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" is not only a HERESY, but a potentially damnable HERESY at that...regardless of what Kenneth says to the contrary. As such, those who embrace and teach the same are HERETICS.

You know which side of the aisle I'm on...
[/QUOTE]
 
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I have stated to you that, and it is now 6 times I am repeating myself.
The context that I was using is that all men is appointed to die once, was in reference to the truth that all will die in the flesh if the gathering together does not happen in our lifetime. And I have stated that yes the word all is not in that scripture twice before. My context that I have had to repeat to now 6 times is that we will not escape physical death if the gathering together does not happen in our time. By repeating yourself over and over again on the same thing, shows clearly that you are not even actually reading my posts. You are just skimming over them, and picking and choosing what you want to hear. If you do that to my posts, then one can assume you do that to scripture as well.
Which in some of your responses it clearly shows you only want to recognize scriptures that fit your belief system, and cast others away. Which is a common theme with physical salvation first believers, that is not biblical, Greek words definition do not state that, and the early church did not teach it as well.....
See post 316 and repent KENNETH....remember you teach that you can lose your salvation.....and I believe willful sin is what you say leads to a loss of salvation!
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
You forgot to call me an IDIOT....and you still fail to understand a few things...
I already pointed out to you on another thread where THE BIBLE defines "ignorant" (Greek "idiotes") and "unlearned" (Greek "idiotes") people like you as being the same, so there's no need for me to repeat myself.

dcontroversal said:
Who is the book written to....HEBREW CHRISTIANS who were wanting to go back UNDER THE LAW AND THE OLD WAYS while TRYING to MIX FAITH AND THE WORKS OF THE LAW......You guys take the cake and top awards in the ability to twist, miss context and apply scripture where scripture is not applied.....

Whatever dude.....believe what you will....!
Aside from THE FACT that these Hebrew Christians were being warned about many more things than just potentially going back under the law, even if you were correct (and you're not), then we still have Biblical documentation that CHRISTIANS can fall away to the point where it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them AGAIN unto repentance...so there goes your position, right down the drain.

Finally, as expected, you failed to admit that you totally pulled your "quotes" totally out of context.
 
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So you are trying say the same standards that apply to those Christians don't apply to all Christians ?

That would be a faulty way of looking at things, as the word makes it clear that any form of willful sins that a person chooses to walk in will lead them to the second death in the lake of fire and not eternal life through Christ.
How hard is it for you and a few others to understand you can not serve two masters, and get eternal life. You can not serve sin and the Lord, you can not love Him and hate others, you can not serve Him but deny to follow His commands. It just does not mix, and you will not end up in heaven if you are disobedient.....
[/QUOTE]

Keep putting words in my mouth...never implied or said what you imply and say.......
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
So you are trying say the same standards that apply to those Christians don't apply to all Christians ?

That would be a faulty way of looking at things, as the word makes it clear that any form of willful sins that a person chooses to walk in will lead them to the second death in the lake of fire and not eternal life through Christ.
How hard is it for you and a few others to understand you can not serve two masters, and get eternal life. You can not serve sin and the Lord, you can not love Him and hate others, you can not serve Him but deny to follow His commands. It just does not mix, and you will not end up in heaven if you are disobedient.....
Seriously, he fails to realize that he just destroyed his own position by acknowledging that these people were, in fact, Hebrew CHRISTIANS.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
...said the guy who ran away from me on another thread when I pointed out to him that Paul's epistle to the Romans didn't end with his signature "quote" from Romans chapter 8, but that Paul went on to write to these very same CHRISTIANS:

Romans chapter 11

[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


You're as willfully ignorant as Dc is.

As far as the epistle to the Hebrews is concerned, it would be my absolute pleasure to go through the entirety of the same, beginning at Hebrews 1:1, with you or anybody else for that matter. In fact, I'm presently petitioning in the "Suggestions" forum for a sub-section to this forum where one on one debates might be held as they are on other forums which I've been a part of in the past. Should my suggestion be approved, then I'll gladly go through the entire epistle to the Hebrews with you or Dc in such a one on one debate and we'll see who's actually in error.

I just wanted to add because some do not even know this, but Paul did not even write the epistle to the Romans !!!

He may have stated the words, but he did not write it...................
 
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I already pointed out to you on another thread where THE BIBLE defines "ignorant" (Greek "idiotes") and "unlearned" (Greek "idiotes") people like you as being the same, so there's no need for me to repeat myself.


Aside from THE FACT that these Hebrew Christians were being warned about many more things than just potentially going back under the law, even if you were correct (and you're not), then we still have Biblical documentation that CHRISTIANS can fall away to the point where it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them AGAIN unto repentance...so there goes your position, right down the drain.

Finally, as expected, you failed to admit that you totally pulled your "quotes" totally out of context.[/QUOTE

Whatever dude....! Your missing the point of the whole verse and context....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ....

1. FALL AWAY tot he POINT THAT YOU NEED TO BE RESAVED
2. TO ACTUALLY BE RESAVED

I suggest you study what the word INCORRUPTABLE MEANS as applied to the SEED we have been born of.........
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Seriously, he fails to realize that he just destroyed his own position by acknowledging that these people were, in fact, Hebrew CHRISTIANS.

That is what gets me, as these people take and say well it was only spoken to them as if it alleviates them from the same standard. If a Christian had to follow a certain standard back then, and have to follow that same standard in the future as Revelation shows, then we who are in the middle have to follow them also so.
Their sin is no my sin, so I am ok is pretty much what they are saying. The Lord has a response to that, "unless you repent you will perish also."

I see these same people defending their sins in one thread, then turn around and see them in another thread bashing and condemning gays and catholic's !!! Go figure !!!! I guess they forgot take the plank out of your own eye first !!!
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
I already pointed out to you on another thread where THE BIBLE defines "ignorant" (Greek "idiotes") and "unlearned" (Greek "idiotes") people like you as being the same, so there's no need for me to repeat myself.


Aside from THE FACT that these Hebrew Christians were being warned about many more things than just potentially going back under the law, even if you were correct (and you're not), then we still have Biblical documentation that CHRISTIANS can fall away to the point where it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them AGAIN unto repentance...so there goes your position, right down the drain.

Finally, as expected, you failed to admit that you totally pulled your "quotes" totally out of context.[/QUOTE

Whatever dude....! Your missing the point of the whole verse and context....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ....

1. FALL AWAY tot he POINT THAT YOU NEED TO BE RESAVED
2. TO ACTUALLY BE RESAVED

I suggest you study what the word INCORRUPTABLE MEANS as applied to the SEED we have been born of.........


This that you said that I highlighted is true, but it still does not say it is totally impossible to come back in repentance for all cases as you have stated in the past if a person falls away.......

The Lord will never reject us if we come to Him, but a person can chose to reject Him, and this goes even with a person who is new in the faith that do not have a solid root/foundation built yet on Christ....
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
dcontroversal said:
I will add....it is your stance that cheapens the grace of God while rejecting the blood of Christ and the TOTAL ATONEMENT for our sins...You reject JOHN and his use of present tense when it comes to sin, you reject the fact that we have been born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED and to be frank....I will stop there before I say what I really think about you.....Like I said....we will see how far your works get you...I can wait for sure...........!
Hey, say whatever you want to say about me...it really makes no difference to me whatsoever. After all, your quarrel isn't really with me, but rather with the Word of God which has been in existence since long before I was ever born.

Anyhow, in relation to "cheapening the grace of God while rejecting the blood of Christ", have you never read:

Hebrews chapter 10

[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised):
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


???

As I pointed out to you just the other day, there's your "one sacrifice for sins for ever" (vs. 12) by which "He has perfected for ever them which are sanctified" (vs. 14), BUT THE TEXT DOESN'T STOP THERE!

No, if we simply keep on reading as many of us have done, then we realize that those who have been sanctified by this one blood sacrifice CAN REJECT THE SAME TO THEIR OWN DAMNATION!

Yes, as much as you foolishly and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the same, SANCTIFIED CHRISTIANS CAN TREAD UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, THEREBY COUNTING THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHEREWITH THEY WERE SANCTIFIED AS AN UNHOLY THING, WHILE DOING DESPITE UNTO OR WHILE DESPISING THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.

Are those who do the same "once saved, always saved"?

Of course, they're not.

Rather, they have A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH SHALL DEVOUR GOD'S ADVERSARIES AS GOD WILL EXACT HIS VENGEANCE UPON THE SAME.

Well, that's in my Bible...and I believe it.

You'd be wise to believe it, too.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Keep putting words in my mouth...never implied or said what you imply and say.......[/QUOTE]



I did not put words in your mouth, as if you actually read what I said.
I asked you in a question form, and that is not putting words in ones mouth. Putting words in ones mouth is doing what you have done previously about me and some others, by stating things they never said as if they said it. Asking in a question form to the person is not putting words in the mouth. It is asking for clarification on what you believe, think, and feel on a subject.

The fact that still remains is that if you continue to do the same exact sin everyday, then the bible states your repentance and confession of it was not a true repentance. So those who continue to misuse 1 John on sins, usually stick with they will be forgiven rather they do it everyday or not. Not biblical though, as a continuation of that sin everyday the bible states it makes it still your master and repentance was not true. And if that sin controls you everyday that you commit it everyday the bible clearly states eternal life is not where that person is headed.
 
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Hey, say whatever you want to say about me...it really makes no difference to me whatsoever. After all, your quarrel isn't really with me, but rather with the Word of God which has been in existence since long before I was ever born.

Anyhow, in relation to "cheapening the grace of God while rejecting the blood of Christ", have you never read:

Hebrews chapter 10

[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[23] Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised):
[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


???

As I pointed out to you just the other day, there's your "one sacrifice for sins for ever" (vs. 12) by which "He has perfected for ever them which are sanctified" (vs. 14), BUT THE TEXT DOESN'T STOP THERE!

No, if we simply keep on reading as many of us have done, then we realize that those who have been sanctified by this one blood sacrifice CAN REJECT THE SAME TO THEIR OWN DAMNATION!

Yes, as much as you foolishly and stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the same, SANCTIFIED CHRISTIANS CAN TREAD UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, THEREBY COUNTING THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHEREWITH THEY WERE SANCTIFIED AS AN UNHOLY THING, WHILE DOING DESPITE UNTO OR WHILE DESPISING THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.

Are those who do the same "once saved, always saved"?

Of course, they're not.

Rather, they have A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH SHALL DEVOUR GOD'S ADVERSARIES AS GOD WILL EXACT HIS VENGEANCE UPON THE SAME.

Well, that's in my Bible...and I believe it.

You'd be wise to believe it, too.
Oh I do believe that the context of the last verses you quoted is verse 25 and HEBREW CHRISTIANS wanting to FORSAKE assembling together as the manner of some is...which counts the blood of Jesus a COMMON ORDINARY BASE THING and TRAMPLES UNDER FOOT the SON of GOD.......

Sanctified FOR EVER means exactly THAT...FOREVER......

So, like I said......take the verses out of context and apply them to biblical salvation is you choose to do so........!
 
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There is a big difference in living in willful sins day in and day out, and that of a person who messes up here or there.
Is it possible for a person to go a whole day, week, or even a month without sinning ? Yes it is !!!
To say it is not is to deny the words of God, and that of the reason the Holy Spirit was sent to us.
You still rather you confess them or not, if you continue to do the same sin everyday without making the attempt to stop committing it. Then the bible states that is not a true repentance, so the bible does not give a free will to sin. And then it does not give repentance or confession as an excuse to continue doing it.

Example: If a person watched porn everyday, then they come to the Lord and say they repent of it and confess it, but then turn around and continue to still watch porn everyday and not give it up. Then their repentance is not a true repentance and no amount of confessing will have that sin covered by the Lord, as it shows no true repentance and they are using confession as an excuse to continue doing it. The Lord know the heart and He can tell if you truly are sorrowful for your sins, and if you are truly wanting to stop walking in them.
What if that person is truly trying to stop? You must not have had any vices that have really been hard to overcome . . . Their repentance is real but their flesh is not made perfect because they now have the gift of holy Spirit dwelling in them. Some vices can be really hard for your flesh to let go of and it takes EFFORT as in renewing your mind daily - sometimes moment by moment. Some Christians have not been taught that they need to feed themselves with the word of God in order to stay strengthened; in order to renew their minds. - What then? A person can only go as far as they have been taught. A man's salvation is dependent upon what our Lord has done. A Christian's walk, being successful, is dependent upon the nourishment from the word of God, their strength and trust in Christ, renewing their minds in order to transform they thought processes and also in order to cast down those thoughts that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God and bring every thought to the obedience of Christ - THAT is WORK and it is involved in our WALK not with our salvation.

So again you are talking about a Christian's walk after salvation.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
I just wanted to add because some do not even know this, but Paul did not even write the epistle to the Romans !!!

He may have stated the words, but he did not write it...................
I think that you might have misunderstood what I was saying.

IOW, I wasn't referring to Paul's "signature quote" or to his signature at the end of his epistles which was a "token", but rather to Viligant_Warrior's "signature quote" or to his "quote" from Romans chapter 8 which is the "signature" at the bottom of all of his posts.

I can see where that might have been confusing, but I hope that this clarifies what I was actually referring to.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
Oh I do believe that the context of the last verses you quoted is verse 25 and HEBREW CHRISTIANS wanting to FORSAKE assembling together as the manner of some is...which counts the blood of Jesus a COMMON ORDINARY BASE THING and TRAMPLES UNDER FOOT the SON of GOD.......

Sanctified FOR EVER means exactly THAT...FOREVER......

So, like I said......take the verses out of context and apply them to biblical salvation is you choose to do so........!
What?!?

So, you believe that these Hebrew CHRISTIANS were going to suffer the judgment, fiery indignation and wrath of God for not assembling together with other Christians?

That's the most bizarre thing that I've ever heard in my life (somebody will top it on this thread, inevitably).

Seriously, friend, you're simply not being led by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, so you really do need to humble yourself before God and sincerely ask Him for the guidance of the Same.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
This that you said that I highlighted is true, but it still does not say it is totally impossible to come back in repentance for all cases as you have stated in the past if a person falls away.......

The Lord will never reject us if we come to Him, but a person can chose to reject Him, and this goes even with a person who is new in the faith that do not have a solid root/foundation built yet on Christ....
Are you talking to me or to dc?
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
...said the guy who ran away from me on another thread when I pointed out to him that Paul's epistle to the Romans didn't end with his signature "quote" from Romans chapter 8, but that Paul went on to write to these very same CHRISTIANS:
Obviously your response to me -- if it was even a response, since I don't recall speaking to you on this subject -- didn't matter enough to me to check back. Seriously, I'm at a loss to know what you're talking about here. However, if you want to address this text:

Romans chapter 11

[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


You're as willfully ignorant as Dc is.
... you'll need to change your attitude as per that last sentence, or I'll simply respond here and leave you to your misguided interpretation.

You accuse me of "thinking" Romans ends with chapter 8, v. 39. Well, perhaps you should realize that chapter 11 doesn't start with v. 18. The difference is, in my signature, the passage stands alone and still speaks truth. In the case of your cutting off vv. 11-17, you willfully attempt to give lie to the word of God.

Paul's thoughts in this vein begin at least seven verses beforehand -- and you have, by now, taken note of the fact the chapter deals with Israel the spiritual nation, not people as individuals. You can't make it say whatever you want it to say just because there are no other passages in Scripture that support "lost salvation." That includes your misguided misinterpretation of Hebrews 6:1-6, and I'll be happy to debate it here, there, or anywhere you want. Why wait for your request to be granted?

Returning to the issue at hand, Paul compares Israel to the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree and the Gentile believers to the branches of a wild olive tree. Israel, as the natural branches, were broken off, and the Gentiles, as wild branches, were grafted in as shown in verse 17 -- the verse you left off to begin in the middle of a paragraph, so it would appear to support what you erroneously believe.
Romans 11, NASB
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14
if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
15
For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16
If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Then we pick up with the verses you posted, but out of context, which in reality is a disingenuous effort to subvert the Scriptures.

The Gentiles, then, have been made partakers of the promises and inherit the blessings of God’s salvation.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
Obviously your response to me -- if it was even a response, since I don't recall speaking to you on this subject -- didn't matter enough to me to check back. Seriously, I'm at a loss to know what you're talking about here. However, if you want to address this text:

... you'll need to change your attitude as per that last sentence, or I'll simply respond here and leave you to your misguided interpretation.

You accuse me of "thinking" Romans ends with chapter 8, v. 39. Well, perhaps you should realize that chapter 11 doesn't start with v. 18. The difference is, in my signature, the passage stands alone and still speaks truth. In the case of your cutting off vv. 11-17, you willfully attempt to give lie to the word of God.

Paul's thoughts in this vein begin at least seven verses beforehand -- and you have, by now, taken note of the fact the chapter deals with Israel the spiritual nation, not people as individuals. You can't make it say whatever you want it to say just because there are no other passages in Scripture that support "lost salvation." That includes your misguided misinterpretation of Hebrews 6:1-6, and I'll be happy to debate it here, there, or anywhere you want. Why wait for your request to be granted?

Returning to the issue at hand, Paul compares Israel to the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree and the Gentile believers to the branches of a wild olive tree. Israel, as the natural branches, were broken off, and the Gentiles, as wild branches, were grafted in as shown in verse 17 -- the verse you left off to begin in the middle of a paragraph, so it would appear to support what you erroneously believe.
Romans 11, NASB
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14
if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
15
For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16
If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Then we pick up with the verses you posted, but out of context, which in reality is a disingenuous effort to subvert the Scriptures.

The Gentiles, then, have been made partakers of the promises and inherit the blessings of God’s salvation.
...and these grafted in Gentiles were told to BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT TO FEAR BECAUSE THEY COULD BE CUT OFF AFTER HAVING BEEN GRAFTED IN.

Seriously, you're only refuting your own erroneous position.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What?!?

So, you believe that these Hebrew CHRISTIANS were going to suffer the judgment, fiery indignation and wrath of God for not assembling together with other Christians?

That's the most bizarre thing that I've ever heard in my life (somebody will top it on this thread, inevitably).

Seriously, friend, you're simply not being led by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, so you really do need to humble yourself before God and sincerely ask Him for the guidance of the Same.
CONTEXT SLICE!

Verse 22-->let us draw near with a true heart in FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH
Verse 23-->let us HOLD FAST our PROFESSION OF FAITH without wavering
Verse 24-->Let us consider ONE ANOTHER
Verse 25-->NOT forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the MANNER OF SOME IS but exhorting one another: and so much the more as ye see the day APPROACHING

FOR if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES...
Verse 28-->Those that rejected MOSES' law died without MERCY<---NOT UNDER the condemnation of the LAW
Verse 29-->THOSE that forsake assembling together and who go back under the LAW are counting the BLOOD of JESUS a COMMON ORDINARY BASE thing and TRAMPLE UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD....

THEY will be judged...period......NO WHERE does it say they will LOSE their SALVATION

There is NO MORE sacrifice for sins<-----CHRIST has nailed our sins to the cross
The indignation of God WILL BURN the ENEMIES of Christ
Those who forsake the assembly COUNT the blood of JESUS a common thing and trample underfoot the SON OF GOD
They will be Judged....NO WHERE does it say they will LOSE THEIR SALVATION
The LORD will judge HIS PEOPLE

They either belong unto the LORD or they do the works of their father THE DEVIL

HIS PEOPLE MEAN THEY BELONG TO HIM!

1st Corinthians 3....some vessels of HONOR some of DISHONOR...SOME have works of Gold, SILVER and PRECIOUS STONES....SOME OF WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE<-----YET SAVED SO AS BY FIRE!