Tired of the Big LIE

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

Sorry to tell you once again but salvation/eternal life is not immediately in our physical possession.
People continue to want to misuse scripture on this issue because they do not understand or use the true context of the Greek words pisteuo and echo. Neither one of those Greek words puts salvation as an immediate physical possession. They are a continuation word leading to, and to have in hand as a mental possession ( assurance in other words ).

Second, yes if they are trying to stop then the repentance is real as I said before and the Holy Spirit will help a person do this. If however they are making no attempt to stop, and they are using repentance and confession as an excuse to keep doing that sin. Then no they will not be forgiven and end up with eternal life.

If a Christians salvation is solely on what Jesus did on the cross, why does He say over and over again what is required of us. This whole one way street teaching is false unbiblical teaching, and if it was true then one would not even have to believe or repent of their sins to get eternal life. The bible especially by the words of the Lord and the Apostles say different. Even Paul repeats over and over again if we don't continue, endure, persevere, stay steadfast, and persist in the ways of the Lord we will not end up with eternal life....

Even the Lord said we must endure first and do the will of God in our lives to get eternal life.
And the will of God is not just believe and love, as there are many scriptures that say what the will of God is. And one of them as such is when the Lord said all that He taught and commanded is God's will for us......

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

There is a big difference in living in willful sins day in and day out, and that of a person who messes up here or there.
Is it possible for a person to go a whole day, week, or even a month without sinning ? Yes it is !!!
To say it is not is to deny the words of God, and that of the reason the Holy Spirit was sent to us.

If you really believe that you can go for a whole day, week, or even a month without sinning, you are in denial of the truth and your definition of sin is very different from mine.

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

You are right the Lord will judge His people at the mercy seat, however the ones who continue to sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth are not His people, and will find themselves standing before God at the great white throne judgment. And if you don't think the Lord will not cast those who were once His that turned away from Him to a life of disobedience into the lake of fire you need to go back and read what He said in Luke 12.

[h=1]Luke 12:45-46[/h]45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My Master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the Master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

( Servant = believers..........Master = Lord Jesus )

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Sorry to tell you once again but salvation/eternal life is not immediately in our physical possession.
People continue to want to misuse scripture on this issue because they do not understand or use the true context of the Greek words pisteuo and echo. Neither one of those Greek words puts salvation as an immediate physical possession. They are a continuation word leading to, and to have in hand as a mental possession ( assurance in other words ).

Second, yes if they are trying to stop then the repentance is real as I said before and the Holy Spirit will help a person do this. If however they are making no attempt to stop, and they are using repentance and confession as an excuse to keep doing that sin. Then no they will not be forgiven and end up with eternal life.

If a Christians salvation is solely on what Jesus did on the cross, why does He say over and over again what is required of us. This whole one way street teaching is false unbiblical teaching, and if it was true then one would not even have to believe or repent of their sins to get eternal life. The bible especially by the words of the Lord and the Apostles say different. Even Paul repeats over and over again if we don't continue, endure, persevere, stay steadfast, and persist in the ways of the Lord we will not end up with eternal life....

Even the Lord said we must endure first and do the will of God in our lives to get eternal life.
And the will of God is not just believe and love, as there are many scriptures that say what the will of God is. And one of them as such is when the Lord said all that He taught and commanded is God's will for us......

It seems that you are saying that we cannot really know if we have eternal life untill we stand before the Lord.
We need to keep working and working and hoping and hoping that we have been faithful enough.
If what Jesus did on the cross is not sufficient for eternal life, then ALL men will be in hell.
That includes me and you.

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

Doing His will is not "working and working"

it is the path.

3Scoreand10 · Feb 9, 2015

Hizikyah said:

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

kennethcadwell said:

No I deny what you say is truth, and I believe the truth of what the bible says;

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I guess when it comes to sin, these scriptures are completely thrown out of the context in order for false teachers to put limitations on God. Surrender your complete and total self to Him, and all things are possible, even refrain form sin and its controlling power on your life.....

kennethcadwell · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Wrong, we have total assurance we will receive it by walking the way He told us to and letting the Holy Spirit guide us.
Giving into your lusts everyday is not walking in the Spirit.....

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Hizikyah said:

Im saying that doing His will after He cleanses us is the natural and fitting course. Not walking in this is dangerous territory. The path is narrow. Is the doctrine "They killed Him, now all His teachings are null and void" or "they killed Him, we must be His sheep and walk the path"?

We can slice it any way we want;

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

We do as He says or we are worthless servants... Messiah spoke a parable about this...

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

True. Neither is it "losing your salvation."

RickyZ · Feb 9, 2015

This is indeed a convoluted subject that we'll probably have to wait to ask God in person about. It's really got a 3 part answer:

1. Scriptures tell us that once we put ourselves into God's hands He will keep us there forever.

Followed by

2. Scriptures that clearly say that once in God's hands we are yet free to walk away.

Followed by

3. Scriptures that tell us that those who walk away weren't really part of us in the first place.

Oh and yeah there's 4th point

4. Those who have taken part then walked away cannot be resaved.

My oh my what to make of it all?

Scriptures say that you can't 'work' your way into heaven. Nor can you 'work' your way out of it. The only in or out is based SOLELY on acceptance or rejection of Christ.

So I go back to my original assertion -

UNLESS YOU, AS A SAVED CHRISTIAN, PLAN TO REJECT GOD (GO APSTATE), IT'S A MOOT ISSUE AND NOT WORTH ALL THIS DIVISON IN THE BODY!!!

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

I read his first line and immediately thought of numerous scriptures that contradict his view....He that hath the SON HATH ETERNAL LIFE.....He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.....there are numerous scriptures that teach that a believer is already possessing eternal life......par for the course with those who believe you can lose it I guess......

Jason0047 · Feb 9, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

No. I don't believe works is to keep salvation. As I said before, if a believer sins, they get their heart right with God by confessing their sin with the intent that they will not commit that sin again. Confessing or repenting is not a work. Besides, a believer does not do the work. God does the work in the believer. Works and holiness is just proof God lives within you (Who is the source of salvation).

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Again...when it all boils down your salvation is based upon what YOU do and YOUR WORKS.........

Good luck with that Kenneth.......Will you be in that group that argues your right to enter based upon your works? and then get cast from his presence?

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Hizikyah said:

3Scoreand10 said:

Im saying that doing His will after He cleanses us is the natural and fitting course. Not walking in this is dangerous territory. The path is narrow. Is the doctrine "They killed Him, now all His teachings are null and void" or "they killed Him, we must be His sheep and walk the path"?

We can slice it any way we want;

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

We do as He says or we are worthless servants... Messiah spoke a parable about this...

So at the end of the day your belief boils down to your salvation being based upon what you do and your works?

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Hizikyah said:

lol so at the end of the day you call the path of the Most High works?

you are all too much, the day when someone can say lets walk His path and others reply with the kind of reply you did, is clearly why many are "ruined belts unfit for use" the circe has transformed the mind s of many and turned them into unclean vessels only to turn and devour them, and your accusing me because I say all sheep should follow the Shepherd are they are not a part of the flock.

Would you look Messiah in the face and say to Him what you just said to me if he said John 12:48 to you?

Because He says this:

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

If you believe in Him you also believe that we will all sit before His judgement seat.... so I repeat; Would you look Messiah in the face and say to Him what you just said to me if he said John 12:48 to you?

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

John (Yahchanan) 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers.You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

He laid down His life for us.... He says, "You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you" who am I to argue that? and who am I if I accept that? A foolish theologian who's doctrine is based in self-desires or an accepting child who believes what the Sent One has spoken?

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

Im tired of the big lie that doing the will of YHWH is "justified by works"

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2015

Hizikyah said:

dcontroversal said:

First and foremost I asked you a question based upon the fact that you liked a statement by a man who promotes works for salvation.....

Second he also inspired how many verse like...

Not by works of righteous which we have done, but according to his MERCY HAS HE SAVED US

In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH and NOT OF WORKS...........

MANY WILL COME BEFORE ME saying LORD, LORD did we not do MANY wonderful works IN YOUR NAME......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

We conclude that a man is JUSTFIED BY FAITH without the deeds of the LAW
and on and on and on........

It is either faith or it is WORKS....

So, back to point A...I asked you a question and you came back with accusations and a question that is MOOT.......so...Which is it.....?

My question-->So at the end of the day your belief boils down to your salvation being based upon what you do and your works?

Hizikyah · Feb 9, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Hizikyah said:

First and foremost I asked you a question based upon the fact that you liked a statement by a man who promotes works for salvation.....

Second he also inspired how many verse like...

Not by works of righteous which we have done, but according to his MERCY HAS HE SAVED US

In the grace you are having been saved out of FAITH and NOT OF WORKS...........

MANY WILL COME BEFORE ME saying LORD, LORD did we not do MANY wonderful works IN YOUR NAME......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

We conclude that a man is JUSTFIED BY FAITH without the deeds of the LAW
and on and on and on........

It is either faith or it is WORKS....

So, back to point A...I asked you a question and you came back with accusations and a question that is MOOT.......so...Which is it.....?

My question-->So at the end of the day your belief boils down to your salvation being based upon what you do and your works?

Read my sig.

Tired of the Big LIE

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