Viewing Porn as Grounds for Divorce

[presidente]

This topic is derailing another thread.

I'll post my view on this. I see viewing porn (actually the looking with lust) as sufficient grounds for church discipline. That could involve a spouse not keeping company with another spouse for a time. I don't see it as grounds for divorce and remarriage.

Looking in order to lust is a sin of the heart, a sin against God. Those who are married are one flesh. Adultery or sleeping with a prostitute is becoming one body with that other person. We don't stone people for having hateful thoughts or saying hateful words, even if the person has murder in their heart. We wouldn't give someone life in prison in our society for saying hateful words. So why would we treat viewing porn the same way as physical adultery and justify ending marriages.

Also, there is no scripture that gives a woman permission to divorce her husband. There is only scripture to forbid it. Jesus commentary on the law in Matthew 19 had to do with a law that regulated men divorcing women and not vice versa.

 

[breno785au]

As Jesus said, certificate for divorce was only allowed because of the hardness of their hearts. Rather than believing in the best in someone, rather than walking through the toughest of times with someone even at their own hurt, through the hardness of their own heart they choose to abandon and leave someone with their issues for myriad of reasons, the worst one in my opinion is 'i deserve better'. I thank God and I will say it again I thank God for the amazing woman God has given me who has supported me through my porn issues.

 

[Nautilus]

Church discipline? What, do they spank you or ground you for being naughty?

 

[presidente]

Church discipline? What, do they spank you or ground you for being naughty?

I Corinthians 5 talks about not keeping company with fornicators and a long list of sinners. They were to gather and deliver the offender over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul also wrote to Timothy about vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor when referring to certain promulgators of false doctrine. He refers to Korah's rebellion, where the children of Israel were instructed to withdraw from the wicked men. Then the ground opened up and consumed those rebelling against Moses (and therefore God.) The implication is that withdrawing from the wicked men protected those who did so from the punishment that fell on the disobedient. Jude refers to false blemishes as spots on your love feasts, and Peter speaks of the false teachers as spots and blemishes while they feast with you. Paul warns that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. He also instructs believers not to keep company with those who depart from the traditions he had taught.

 

[Nautilus]

So youre saying some churches actually do this? Abandon those in sin till they find their way out? Thats what it sounds like.

 

[Desdichado]

So youre saying some churches actually do this? Abandon those in sin till they find their way out? Thats what it sounds like.

No. Ostracism is the nuclear option of Church Discipline, seen as necessary in only the most extreme of circumstances.

Church Discipline itself is a multi-step process aimed at the rehabilitation of someone who is living in sin thereby strengthening the Church body as a whole. It's an extension of Christian to Christian accountability and a logical component of the discipleship we're called to practice.

Grace Community Church posted a decent explanation of Church Discipline.

This is new to me too and that article really helped my understanding of the concept.

 

[Ugly]

So youre saying some churches actually do this? Abandon those in sin till they find their way out? Thats what it sounds like.

Actually there is biblical precedence for this from Paul. It should be a last option, but if a person flatly refuses to even make an attempt to come out of a sin, then Paul says they should be sent out.

 

[presidente]

So youre saying some churches actually do this? Abandon those in sin till they find their way out? Thats what it sounds like.

Read Matthew 18 and I Corinthians 5. This is how to deal with an unrepentant member who just won't repent of sin after other attempts at restoration have been made. Unfortunately, these passages of scripture are often ignored and overlooked.

 

[Joidevivre]

There would be no one in church. What about the sins of gluttony, alcoholism, anger, addictions, unfaithfulness, abuse? I've even known a pastor who abused his wife (actually hit her many times).

Some of these people would not be helped and feel the presence of the Lord unless they were allowed in church. And how can you decide which sin is worse than another sin? We all are sinful people, trying to overcome our flesh nature with the help of the Holy Spirit. And there He is - in the body of Christians.

 

[sassylady]

I would hope the person addicted to the porn would be willing to get help, and everything should be done to get help in the marriage as well.

I know I personally could not stand for my husband doing that and being unwilling to stop. I would still pray much about it before I took any action. Men often don't seem to see any problem with it if they are not touching another woman but women do feel cheated on when it happens and for good reason. It is the lust issue.

 

[Monnkai]

Speaking as a porn addict (Trying to stop) I think it would be pretty extreme for my girlfriend to break up with me over it. I can imagine the same for marriage and isn't it stated that every sin is the same in Gods eyes. Stealing a pack of gum is no different then murder. Its man who decides which sin is worse not God.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We presently live in a pornography drenched world, literally. So, it's no surprise that polling shows pornography is a problem affecting half the men and women in Christian marriages (e.g. it's usually the man but not always).

Pornography is a problem that needs to be rectified (e.g. made right) in those cases. It is not a scriptural mandate to break up Christian marriages en masse around the world.

There are many approaches to ridding a marriage of pornography, both clinical and non-clinical.

For example, I've seen the problem resolve when the partner who engages in viewing pornography receives treatment and support (which can be as complicated as clinical counseling or as simple as joining a support group and working the program) with the other partner joining a Christian co-dependency support group and learning how to not be co-dependent to their spouse's sin problem while working on themselves. Co-dependency support groups are very empowering for the innocent spouse caught in a marriage where their partner is viewing pornography.

It's with good reason that in any Celebrate Recovery ministry, you'll often find both spouses involved working through the problem together. Usually, they resolve it together and move on with their lives wiser from the experience.

But, of course, that's just one approach...

 

[kaylagrl]

Church discipline? What, do they spank you or ground you for being naughty?

Some people like spanking lol Those of us who were brought up with spanking as a punishment,not so much a fan.

 

[Hungry]

I struggled with pornography for years. Even though I knew if my wife found out she would leave me, I still fell to the temptation often. When I was done often I would feel guilty and wonder why I even did it. Most of the stuff out there is just vile. I just figured I was an addict. One time when I was praying about it I was asking God to free me from this bondage. Some scriptures came to mind reminding me we are no longer slaves to sin. The Holy Spirit empowers us to stand up under ALL temptations. I was just a dog returning to his vomit. I didn't have to be. I understood at that moment that I was reborn a Saint and no longer a sinner. Does that mean I never sin? No, but I recognize I have the power not to. I don't struggle with temptation to pornography anymore. Embracing my identity as a Christian helped me realize the prison gate to sin was unlocked I just had to walk away.

 

[presidente]

There would be no one in church. What about the sins of gluttony, alcoholism, anger, addictions, unfaithfulness, abuse? I've even known a pastor who abused his wife (actually hit her many times).

We have all sinned. Matthew 18 deals with the person who will not repent of a sin.

Some of these people would not be helped and feel the presence of the Lord unless they were allowed in church.

Is this more important than what Jesus taught or what Paul taught? Paul taught that when the church was gathered together, and the power of the Lord Jesus present, to deliver the fornicator over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Where is your compassion for the person? Don't you want his spirit to be saved?

And where is your compassion for the saints? Because the passage says a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Hebrews says to look diligently lest there be a profane person or fornicator among you. It warns against a root of bitterness springing up that may defile many. Bitterness is not just resentment or unforgiveness in the New Testament. Simon of Samaria had bitterness when he wanted to buy a gift of empowerment from Peter.

And how can you decide which sin is worse than another sin? We all are sinful people, trying to overcome our flesh nature with the help of the Holy Spirit. And there He is - in the body of Christians.

Good questions, but we should all be open to repent and receive correction. In Matthew 18, Jesus said to forgive not seven times but seventy times seven.

 

[Joidevivre]

Is this more important than what Jesus taught or what Paul taught? Paul taught that when the church was gathered together, and the power of the Lord Jesus present, to deliver the fornicator over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Where is your compassion for the person? Don't you want his spirit to be saved?

I really understand what you are saying and have thought long and hard about this. Back in the early church, this would have been very helpful to the person who was sinning. Probably the culture was different, and to put them out of the church would have been the most terrible thing to this person who would soon repent (which was the object) and get back into the graces of everyone else. Today it is different. You put someone out of the church, and they will usually not EVER go back....or repent either. They remain usually lost. They become critical of the church itself - object lost.

I do think the pastors and elders of a church should speak with the person who is blatantly sinning , and speak to him about the effect he might be having on the other people in the church who are aware of this. And also, the pastor should address these issues in front of the congregation (which is seldom done today) even before specific people come to his attention.

When is the last time you heard a pastor speak of porn addictions in the morning service (when everyone is there)? Pastors need to speak out purposefully against any leaven that would influence those living for Christ.

Putting people out of the church becomes a difficult thing when you begin to make a list of who should go. You cannot just draw the line on one sin without including many others. And who decides? What about the husband or wife who is abusive to their children or each other, etc.? I would rather my husband was into porn than into abusing me or my children. Or maybe some other woman would rather suffer emotional abuse than have a husband who was into porn. This is not such an easy thing for pastors to make decisions on today. I see many angry people a part of some congregations who you would never know it by their behavior in church. Just ask their families. Anger is just as destructive to families as porn is to some.

You did bring out some good points, Presidente, just not sure they would be the best for our churches today.

 

[notuptome]

I am impressed at how far many will go to find an excuse to divorce. God does not approve of any divorce. God allows divorce out of mercy. I think far fewer would consider divorce if they considered that remarriage is impossible. Divorce and remarriage are tolerated out of mercy not out of merit.

Infidelity is what God dealt with in Israel seeking after other gods. There was an OT prophet who married an harlot and experienced all the agony of that relationship to express how God felt toward unfaithful Israel. For Christians our first relationship, our first covenant is with the Lord. If we transgress that covenant through a divorce we have transgressed in the sight of our God.

Physical violence toward the spouse or the children is never tolerable.

Divorce and remarriage are by Gods mercy not by Gods will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Reformed_Baptist]

This topic is derailing another thread.

I'll post my view on this. I see viewing porn (actually the looking with lust) as sufficient grounds for church discipline. That could involve a spouse not keeping company with another spouse for a time. I don't see it as grounds for divorce and remarriage.

Looking in order to lust is a sin of the heart, a sin against God. Those who are married are one flesh. Adultery or sleeping with a prostitute is becoming one body with that other person. We don't stone people for having hateful thoughts or saying hateful words, even if the person has murder in their heart. We wouldn't give someone life in prison in our society for saying hateful words. So why would we treat viewing porn the same way as physical adultery and justify ending marriages.

Accept to lust is to commit adultery in the eyes of God - Matt 5:28

Also, there is no scripture that gives a woman permission to divorce her husband. There is only scripture to forbid it. Jesus commentary on the law in Matthew 19 had to do with a law that regulated men divorcing women and not vice versa.

I beg to differ, 1 Cor 7 gives a mandate to the women as well (see v13 for example)- the difference being that Paul was written to people who lived under Roman law and not Jewish law so his words were in regards to a different legal environment where women could divorce - Jesus speaking to Jews did not need to provide regulation for that because in their judicial system women could not divorce men.

 

[presidente]

I beg to differ, 1 Cor 7 gives a mandate to the women as well (see v13 for example)- the difference being that Paul was written to people who lived under Roman law and not Jewish law so his words were in regards to a different legal environment where women could divorce - Jesus speaking to Jews did not need to provide regulation for that because in their judicial system women could not divorce men.

The verse you site tells a woman not to leave her unbelieving husband.

I Corinthians 7 says nothing about a woman being able to divorce her husband. Roman law did allow a woman to divorce her husband, but I Corinthians 7 does not. It tells the wife not to depart from her husband, but if he departs, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled with her husband.

In Romans 7, in commentary on the law, Paul says that if a woman, as long as her husband lives, be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress.

 

[Joidevivre]

So if this happens, and a woman marries another man while he is still alive, what happens to her? Does this adulteress who is a Christian and knows she is under grace and really felt it right to remarry since her first husband was abusive lose her salvation? Even if she carries the name "adulteress", how do you think God will judge her?

Both her and her husband have been in Christian ministry for years and God has blessed them tremendously. They have led many to the Lord.