Tired of the Big LIE

[seed_time_harvest]

Some would say that if you walk away that it's because you were never saved and the other side will say how do you walk away from something you never had.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

1 Peter 1:9


Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




James 1:12


Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.




Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




Matthew 10:22


And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




2 Peter 2:20-22


For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”




Hebrews 12:1-3


Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.




Hebrews 10:36


For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.




Hebrews 6:4-6


For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.




Hebrews 3:12-14


Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.




2 Timothy 4:2-8


Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.




1 Timothy 4:16


Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.




1 Corinthians 9:24-25


Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.




Romans 11:19-22


Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.




Mark 13:9-13


“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.






Colossians 1:22-23


In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

How refreshing to read the actual Word of God as opposed to the gobbledygook which usually permeates these threads.

Seriously, I feel as if I just took a nice, warm bath...

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Sorry to tell you once again but salvation/eternal life is not immediately in our physical possession.
People continue to want to misuse scripture on this issue because they do not understand or use the true context of the Greek words pisteuo and echo. Neither one of those Greek words puts salvation as an immediate physical possession. They are a continuation word leading to, and to have in hand as a mental possession ( assurance in other words ).

Sorry to tell you but 1 John says - Beloved NOW we are the sons of God . . . Ephesians 2:6 states in the past tense that we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - (this is a figure of speech) - stated in the past tense as already occurred because of the certainty that it will . . . we believe in the Son of God - we HAVE eternal life John 3:16.

Second, yes if they are trying to stop then the repentance is real as I said before and the Holy Spirit will help a person do this. If however they are making no attempt to stop, and they are using repentance and confession as an excuse to keep doing that sin. Then no they will not be forgiven and end up with eternal life.

Secondly, if they were sincere in their repentance and their confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead - they are saved. They have been born again of the Spirit and SEALED with that Spirit until the day of redemption - that is what scripture says. All the things you are talking about are works of the flesh - the flesh profits us nothing and in the flesh is no good thing - Ya think God knows that? - He did write the book! Our salvation is secure in Christ - Please note I said OUR SALVATION. Now we are to align our walk with our confession of faith - that will take until the day we are rid of this earthly body - this body of death.

If a Christians salvation is solely on what Jesus did on the cross, why does He say over and over again what is required of us. This whole one way street teaching is false unbiblical teaching, and if it was true then one would not even have to believe or repent of their sins to get eternal life. The bible especially by the words of the Lord and the Apostles say different. Even Paul repeats over and over again if we don't continue, endure, persevere, stay steadfast, and persist in the ways of the Lord we will not end up with eternal life....

Even the Lord said we must endure first and do the will of God in our lives to get eternal life.
And the will of God is not just believe and love, as there are many scriptures that say what the will of God is. And one of them as such is when the Lord said all that He taught and commanded is God's will for us......

Our SALVATION IS THROUGH AND BECAUSE OF THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST. Our walk is a whole other thing which I explained in another post but here is part of it again - in case you missed it: #261

Anything we do in the flesh - in our walk, rather good or bad, will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ. Those "bad things" we have done and have not asked forgiveness for will burn, those "good things" we have done will remain. At the end of it all - we will be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3:13-16 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for he day shall declare it because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is (good or bad). If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (of rewards) but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I also know the following verses - no need to point them out and I know that we should walk worthy of our calling but the point is some will walk better than others. The "fire" will sort it out!

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry to tell you but 1 John says - Beloved NOW we are the sons of God . . . Ephesians 2:6 states in the past tense that we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - (this is a figure of speech) - stated in the past tense as already occurred because of the certainty that it will . . . we believe in the Son of God - we HAVE eternal life John 3:16.

Secondly, if they were sincere in their repentance and their confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead - they are saved. They have been born again of the Spirit and SEALED with that Spirit until the day of redemption - that is what scripture says. All the things you are talking about are works of the flesh - the flesh profits us nothing and in the flesh is no good thing - Ya think God knows that? - He did write the book! Our salvation is secure in Christ - Please note I said OUR SALVATION. Now we are to align our walk with our confession of faith - that will take until the day we are rid of this earthly body - this body of death.

Our SALVATION IS THROUGH AND BECAUSE OF THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST. Our walk is a whole other thing which I explained in another post but here is part of it again - in case you missed it: #261

Anything we do in the flesh - in our walk, rather good or bad, will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ. Those "bad things" we have done and have not asked forgiveness for will burn, those "good things" we have done will remain. At the end of it all - we will be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3:13-16 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for he day shall declare it because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is (good or bad). If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (of rewards) but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I also know the following verses - no need to point them out and I know that we should walk worthy of our calling but the point is some will walk better than others. The "fire" will sort it out!

Amen....Thank the Lord for the sealing of the Holy Spirit and the birth from above.....the prepayment of our eternal inheritance.........thank God we can know that we are currently possessing eternal life dia Jesus!

 

[Utah]

you guys that say we can easily go a whole week or more in the flesh without sin are either way more holy than i am, or have a much lower standard of "holiness" than i do.

I sin in my sleep for crying out loud!

 

[dcontroversal]

I sin in my sleep for crying out loud!

AMEN.....those who say they are above sin or don't sin already lied and sinned.....!

 

[3Scoreand10]

AMEN.....those who say they are above sin or don't sin already lied and sinned.....!

Or their definition of sin is not what the Word defines as sin

 

[dcontroversal]

Or their definition of sin is not what the Word defines as sin

Yep for sure...going to be many stand before Jesus and brag on their right to enter the kingdom based upon the righteous works that they have done in his name....he casts them forth and states that he never knew them....the underlying problem is they lacked biblical salvation and the reason is evident.....they trusted in their works and their abilities over the faith of Christ!

 

[Sirk]

Really... you guys are imperfect too! I've met my kindred spirits then and I'm just gonna ignore all the perfect people....they depress me.

 

[newbirth]

Or their definition of sin is not what the Word defines as sin

if God cleans me of all unrighteousness then I am clean...
1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



If anyone say I am a liar....then I am a liar that God word may be true...
Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Jason0047]

This is speaking of those who have never been saved, not those who were once saved but lost their salvation because of sin.

I agree it is speaking to those who have never been saved. This would include the OSAS proponent who came to have a belief in Jesus Christ with no actual change in their sinful life. For those who did not come to the Light are those who are still doing evil (unless their deeds should be reproved). For those who do evil hate the Light. However, why would this be different for a seasoned believer? For it is the first step one takes in coming to the faith. Doing evil means you hate the Light.

In fact, in 2 Peter 2:1, 14, we learn that the false prophets are described as having eyes full of adultery and not being able to cease from sin.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Really... you guys are imperfect too! I've met my kindred spirits then and I'm just gonna ignore all the perfect people....they depress me.

Welcome to the IMPERFECT BUT SAVED club

 

[3Scoreand10]

I agree it is speaking to those who have never been saved. This would include the OSAS proponent who came to have a belief in Jesus Christ with no actual change in their sinful life. For those who did not come to the Light are those who are still doing evil (unless their deeds should be reproved). For those who do evil hate the Light. However, why would this be different for a seasoned believer? For it is the first step one takes in coming to the faith. Doing evil means you hate the Light.

In fact, in 2 Peter 2:1, 14, we learn that the false prophets are described as having eyes full of adultery and not being able to cease from sin.[/QUOTE

You just sinned!
You judged me and my life as not being changed based on my belief that OSAS and not what you know about me.
You better get saved again before it is to late.
OH waite--no rush--what do you have a day , a week, a month?
Don't waite to long!

 

[Jason0047]

AMEN.....those who say they are above sin or don't sin already lied and sinned.....!

When you say it like this it makes me think you sin all the time with no actual remorse. For you are agreeing with a person (i.e. Poster: Utah) in sinning while they dream (Which I believe is wrong). I mean, you act like they have no power when they dream so they should just give into it. But you know who can change that right? Jesus Christ. If you are a slave to sin in your dreams and in your life, Jesus Christ can set you free from that. You no longer have to be a slave to your sin. Both while you are awake and while you dream. Now, does that mean you are going to be perfect and sinless every second for the rest of your life? No. What this means is that you will not habitually sin as a way of life. There is a difference. For David sinned against God by committing murder and adultery. But David did not continue to murder and commit adultery as if it was a way of life for him. David repented of those sins. David was not perfect, but David was a man after God's own heart, though. Are you a man after God's own heart? How can you say you love God and yet also appear to hate your brothers (i.e. other believers)? Are we not to pray for our enemies and to do good unto them?

 

[Jason0047]

You just sinned!
You judged me and my life as not being changed based on my belief that OSAS and not what you know about me.
You better get saved again before it is to late.
OH waite--no rush--what do you have a day , a week, a month?
Don't waite to long!

You need to read your Bible. Jesus said not to judge by outward appearances, but to judge righteous judgment. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself is in regards to hypocritical judgment. If judging was a sin, then how could Steven condemn those who were about to kill him? Paul said know ye not that ye shall judge angels? So it is not a sin to judge. In fact, if you have a moral code or you believe there is a right and wrong, then you are judging whether you speak or not.

 

[Jason0047]

Ephesians 2:6 states in the past tense that we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus - (this is a figure of speech) -

I am glad you brought up the past tense in Ephesians 2. Let's look at another one. Ephesians 2:2 says, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." Verse 3 lets us know that this is talking about sin because it says we had our conversation in times past in the lust of the flesh, etc. In other words, you used to be a sinner or a child of wrath, but you are not supposed to be that way anymore if you claim to be a believer in Jesus Christ. I am not talking about how you will not slip up ever again before God. What I am talking about is that you will not sin as a way of life if you repent of your sins and accept Jesus as your Savior for real. Repent meaning you are truly broken before God and you are sorry for your sin. So sorry that you will actually stop doing it as a way of life.

 

[3Scoreand10]

You need to read your Bible. Jesus said not to judge by outward appearances, but to judge righteous judgment. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself is in regards to hypocritical judgment. If judging was a sin, then how could Steven condemn those who were about to kill him? Paul said know ye not that ye shall judge angels? So it is not a sin to judge. In fact, if you have a moral code or you believe there is a right and wrong, then you are judging whether you speak or not.

But your judgment was not based on fact.
You have no idea of my life, my service, nor my fellowship with my Lord.
You said that because I believe OSAS there is no actual change in my sinful life.
You lied about me.

 

[Jason0047]

But your judgment was not based on fact.
You have no idea of my life, my service, nor my fellowship with my Lord.
You said that because I believe OSAS there is no actual change in my sinful life.
You lied about me.

Please take note that I did not judge your life personally. You could believe in OSAS Lite for all I know. I have no real idea which version of OSAS you believe in. I generally do not judge a person personally unless they openly admit to doing evil. My problem is that DC, and you are not telling the whole story. You claim all future sin is forgiven, but then you do not add a disclaimer for new readers in the fact that a true believer will be penitent and living righteously.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Or their definition of sin is not what the Word defines as sin

...or people like you have no concept of what grace truly is and it's enabling power to overcome sin. Again, the stuff that I read from some of you sounds as if you're disparaging the actual atoning work of Christ.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:14)

If sin still has dominion over you, then you've never truly been saved by grace or indwelt by the Spirit of grace.

You can be sure of it.

 

[Jason0047]

Over the many years: Another problem I see in these types of debates is that holiness is never the focus of the argument for the OSAS proponent. It is Once Saved Always Saved. No sin can remove you from God. You can even be out of fellowship with God and still be saved according to OSAS. But 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life.