Tired of the Big LIE

[Jason0047]

what is sin and saved doctrine?

Are you sinless?

Again, folks here are making the focus back on the person instead of the Word of God. What does the Word of God say on the matter? A sin and still be saved doctrine is the belief that you can sin with no remorse, confession, and or striving to forsake sin as a requirement for your right standing with God. You can just abide in whatever sin you like and you are saved no matter what. But 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, and Romans 6:15 say exactly the opposite, though.

As for being sinless: God calls us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect. The Scriptures say for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. It's a matter of what is your focus. Are you focused on walking after the Spirit or the flesh? You can't do both because Jesus said no man can serve two masters. When a believer confesses their sin, they are forgiven and cleansed of that sin and they strive to forsake that sin with God's help. They are slaves to rightoeusness and not unrighteousness. They walk in the Spirit and not in the ways of the devil and sin. A believer is not forgiven if there is no change in their life and they are still serving themselves and the pleasure of their sin. This is not Works Salvationism. It is Regeneratonism or Relationshipism. If God lives within a person, they will be changed spiritually.

 

[kennethcadwell]

so what your saying is.

we are under law and not under grace,

because belief (faith) in christ frees us from the condemnation of the law. as paul said (in fact paul said in eph 1 - 2 all the things we recieve at that moment, including the eternal seal of the spirit, which is our guarantee)

so if lack of belief causes us to lose salvation, then we are back under condemnation of the law. which we were freed from.

this makes no sense.

Right there is the issue that some of you still have, as what the Lord said and the Apostles confirmed in the epistles on how a believer is to carry themselves and walk, speak, and stay firm in the faith is not being under the law. Just because we are not under the law, does not mean we still don't have standards we are to meet.
Why do you think the bible says we will know those who serve darkness rather then light ? It says that because we will know them by their actions, speech, and how they walk. The bible says that if somebody claims to be a member in Christ but continues to walk in impurity (willful sins) they are not walking in the light, and are to be cast out of the church in order to make them look at themselves and repent of what they are doing.
A person who is walking in willful sins, is not under grace, for if they were they would put off the members of their flesh causing them to sin. Once again the bible makes clear you can not serve both sin, and God. If you are serving the flesh then you are carnal and headed to the second death, if you are serving the Spirit (Lord our God) you would put off the lusts of the flesh and receive eternal life. You can not do both !!!

 

[KJV1611]

Where in 1 John chapter 1-2 does it say darkness is a lack of knowledge involving Scripture? Did you just make that up on your own or did you get that from someone else? I say this because no verse actually says that in 1 John 1-2. Compare 1 John 1:6-7 with 1 John 2:4-6. It says in verse 4 if we say we have fellowship with him and we don't keep his commandments we lie. Also, John 3:19-21 also refers to darkness as evil deeds in it's context, too.

Are you serious... thy word is a lamp unto my feet.
You're so blinded by your preconceived ideas that you can't read objectively. Let me try to explain John 3:19-21.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Light has come into the world and men loved darkness more than light. PERIOD. Why did they love darkness more? Because their deeds are evil. It doesn't say darkness is evil deeds... It says men loved darkness (absence of truth) because their deeds were evil.


Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Every one that does evil hates the light (truth) because the light (truth) reproves their evil deeds.


Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
But he that does good comes to the light (truth) so that his good deeds can be proven to come from God... not from themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, folks here are making the focus back on the person instead of the Word of God. What does the Word of God say on the matter? A sin and still be saved doctrine is the belief that you can sin with no remorse, confession, and or striving to forsake sin as a requirement for your right standing with God. You can just abide in whatever sin you like and you are saved no matter what. But 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, and Romans 6:15 say exactly the opposite, though.

No, that would be a licentious gospel. Which Paul, James and Jude all condemned as a gospel not from God. There is no such thing as any person who has ever been saved, who has not repented. This is a lie you have bought into. and your downfall.

As for being sinless: God calls us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect. The Scriptures say for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. It's a matter of what is your focus. Are you focused on walking after the Spirit or the flesh? You can't do both because Jesus said no man can serve two masters. When a believer confesses their sin, they are forgiven and cleansed of that sin and they strive to forsake that sin with God's help. They are slaves to rightoeusness and not unrighteousness. They walk in the Spirit and not in the ways of the devil and sin. A believer is not forgiven if there is no change in their life and they are still serving themselves and the pleasure of their sin. This is not Works Salvationism. It is Regeneratonism or Relationshipism. If God lives within a person, they will be changed spiritually.

so, your saved by YOUR works of righteousness, Not the righteousness of God, which was given to you.

The fact is, The law places all under condemnation, You may think your righteous, But your a sinner, as am I, as is everyone else who walks the earth. As Jesus said, Only God is good.

So you must be claiming your sinless, Because if your not. Your own gospel condemns you, as does the law.

Regeneration is not done by works we have done, but by Gods mercy only. (titus 3: 5)

so tell us why are you trying to earn Gods mercy and grace?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Note: For they that are after the flesh do mind the thing of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit [spiritually minded] the things of the Spirit. To be spiritually minded is life and peace . . . to be carnally minded is death - no life, no peace, no joy, no hope. Nothing stated in the verse about eternal life - you are adding the word "eternal".

That is exactly what Paul is meaning here.
I know a lot of you want to not look at it that way just because the exact words are not in that passage, as you all do on other passages in which Peter makes a statement to show this is why in depth study comes in. And when you use the whole context of the passage and use other scriptures to interpret scripture you come to the truth. And the truth here is if you live carnal minded you will not receive eternal life, but the second death (spiritual death) in the lake of fire.
Paul is not talking about life in the flesh, when he refers to spiritual minded receiving life. He makes this evident in 1 Timothy 4:8 when he shows to walk in godliness (Spirit) leads to eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right there is the issue that some of you still have, as what the Lord said and the Apostles confirmed in the epistles on how a believer is to carry themselves and walk, speak, and stay firm in the faith is not being under the law. Just because we are not under the law, does not mean we still don't have standards we are to meet.

Are we talking as a christian, or the standard we need to meet to get to heaven?

They are two different standards.

the standard to get to heaven is the law (perfection)

the standard as a child of God is to do as any child does, and try to live for his father (but perfection is not required, nor can it ever be gained)


[quore]Why do you think the bible says we will know those who serve darkness rather then light ? It says that because we will know them by their actions, speech, and how they walk. The bible says that if somebody claims to be a member in Christ but continues to walk in impurity (willful sins) they are not walking in the light, and are to be cast out of the church in order to make them look at themselves and repent of what they are doing.

lol.. Wow. So you say we are not under law. but you just placed them under the law. Can you make up your mind?

The bible says we know people by their actions to weed out false teachers, false prophets, and see people who may claim to be saved, but have never seen God or known God.

A person who is walking in willful sins, is not under grace, for if they were they would put off the members of their flesh causing them to sin.

You just proved you do not even know what grace is, they most certainly are still under grace, if they were not, they would be dead. The fact you and I are living, with all the sin we have had in our lives, is by the grace of God. Grace does not cause us to do good. But those who have been trained by it (when they see what they are forgiven) learn from it.

When are you going to learn from it?

Once again the bible makes clear you can not serve both sin, and God. If you are serving the flesh then you are carnal and headed to the second death, if you are serving the Spirit (Lord our God) you would put off the lusts of the flesh and receive eternal life. You can not do both !!!

The bible is clear.

If your born of God, you can;t sin, What part of CAN NOT do you not understand.

You have good intentions, as does all legalistic religious people do. You are afraid you will teach easy believism, and cause people to walk in sin, But your not doing anything of the kind, what your doing is causing people to live under a burden no one can follow.

You are worthy of condemnation every second of every minute of every day. Only God can save you, you have failed to live up to his standard, are failing, and will fail. As long as you commite 1 sin, you have failed to live up to that standard.

You place yourself above others, and judge them as sinners, when are you going to judge yourself as a sinner (as Paul did in romans 7) and repent, and seek Gods salvation, and stop trying to earn your own salvation>

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is exactly what Paul is meaning here.
I know a lot of you want to not look at it that way just because the exact words are not in that passage, as you all do on other passages in which Peter makes a statement to show this is why in depth study comes in. And when you use the whole context of the passage and use other scriptures to interpret scripture you come to the truth. And the truth here is if you live carnal minded you will not receive eternal life, but the second death (spiritual death) in the lake of fire.
Paul is not talking about life in the flesh, when he refers to spiritual minded receiving life. He makes this evident in 1 Timothy 4:8 when he shows to walk in godliness (Spirit) leads to eternal life.

A christian can not LIVE carnally minded.

Any time a person sins, it comes from the carnal flesh, But a Christian can not live in sin 24/7 You think God allows that, why do you think he chastens them? more importanlty. why do you think YOU can or could withstand the chastening of God?

If so, they would LIVE IN SIN.

John says a child of God can not sin, because they have been born of God.

Why is it the word NOT means nothing to you. and the word ETERNAL means nothing to you?

Why are you fighting it?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The incorruptible seed is the Word of God in the Parable of Sower. This means that a person can believe the Word of God for a time and can fall away due to persecution and or the cares of this life. Initially, the wicked one takes the seed of the Word out of those who do not believe. But those who do believe did receive the Word with joy but not all those who believed endured. That is the point of the Parable of the Sower.

Also, God's Word not being corruptible does not translate to believers being incorruptible. We know that a believer can fall away because of the Parable of the Sower. Some believed and received the Word with joy but fell away.

As for your explaination on 1 John 5:12: You said before that you can be out of fellowship and still be saved. Yet 1 John 5:12 refutes such thinking. He that does not have the Son does not have life.

Being born again - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
not of corruptible seed = that which is born of the flesh is flesh
but of incorruptible [seed] = that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
by [which can also be interpreted as "through"] the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever = Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We are born again of "incorruptible seed" = Spirit.

1 John 5:12 doesn't refute anything. If I am born again - I have the Son. If I fall out of fellowship - I still have the Son because of what God created in me and sealed me with when I first believed.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: (Rom. 8:16) he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (John 3:16) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life (John 3:18) These things have I written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

 

[Jason0047]

No, that would be a licentious gospel. Which Paul, James and Jude all condemned as a gospel not from God. There is no such thing as any person who has ever been saved, who has not repented. This is a lie you have bought into. and your downfall.



so, your saved by YOUR works of righteousness, Not the righteousness of God, which was given to you.

The fact is, The law places all under condemnation, You may think your righteous, But your a sinner, as am I, as is everyone else who walks the earth. As Jesus said, Only God is good.

So you must be claiming your sinless, Because if your not. Your own gospel condemns you, as does the law.

Regeneration is not done by works we have done, but by Gods mercy only. (titus 3: 5)

so tell us why are you trying to earn Gods mercy and grace?

First, there is no lie I bought into. I have talked with many online and some in person who believe they can sin and still be saved. Many churches believe this way. They believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine. There have been folks who have committed suicide believing in OSAS. So the fruit of OSAS is not good fruit but bad fruit. Many have come out of OSAS used to be a slave to their sin. Yes, I am aware of OSAS Lite that teaches you have to be penitent and holy in order to be a true believer. But this is not the major version of OSAS. Also, the problem with the OSAS Lite proponents here (If they truly are OSAS Lite) is that they only tell half the story. They say all your future sin is forgiven and yet say NOTHING of the fact that you have to live a holy life and repent of your sins in order to be classified as a true believer.

Second, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I am saved right here and right now by God's grace because I repented of my sins and accepted Jesus as my Savior. If I sin again, I confess that sin to God and forsake it with God's help. I also do not believe the Law of Moses exists anymore. But I don't think you can ignore the moral law, though. We are not talking about if you will not mess up again or not. Christians are not perfect. But, we are talking about whether or not you live in sin habitually or not with the thinking you are saved. Some believe you can sin habitually and still be saved. And if you don't say anything about how a true believer must repent and live holy when you say future sin is forgiven, then you are sending the wrong message to people.

Third, Regeneration leads a person to be changed and different whereby God lives within you and does the good work within you. The answer is not you. You don't do the works all by your lonesome. It is God that will get the ultimate credit for the good work He does in you. For Christ deserves all the glory, honor, and power.

 

[kennethcadwell]

lol.. Wow. So you say we are not under law. but you just placed them under the law. Can you make up your mind?

The bible says we know people by their actions to weed out false teachers, false prophets, and see people who may claim to be saved, but have never seen God or known God.



You just proved you do not even know what grace is, they most certainly are still under grace, if they were not, they would be dead. The fact you and I are living, with all the sin we have had in our lives, is by the grace of God. Grace does not cause us to do good. But those who have been trained by it (when they see what they are forgiven) learn from it.

When are you going to learn from it?



The bible is clear.

If your born of God, you can;t sin, What part of CAN NOT do you not understand.

You have good intentions, as does all legalistic religious people do. You are afraid you will teach easy believism, and cause people to walk in sin, But your not doing anything of the kind, what your doing is causing people to live under a burden no one can follow.

You are worthy of condemnation every second of every minute of every day. Only God can save you, you have failed to live up to his standard, are failing, and will fail. As long as you commite 1 sin, you have failed to live up to that standard.

You place yourself above others, and judge them as sinners, when are you going to judge yourself as a sinner (as Paul did in romans 7) and repent, and seek Gods salvation, and stop trying to earn your own salvation>

You completely misuse all of 1 John, because the context is if you are in Christ then you do not sin.
This is because if you are walking in complete and total love for Him and others you would not want to do wrong to others, and would obey all that He taught. If you are still wronging others in how you speak to them, act toward them, and even by your actions the bible makes it clear that you are not in Christ.
Why does Paul give a command to cast a member out of the church if they are walking in a willful sin if like you say we can not sin ? Obviously John is not saying there that we can't sin and future sins can not be imputed on us, or that would contradict other scriptures. What John is saying is that as long as you walk in total love you will not sin, because of course you would have no urge to do wrong. When you take this and put this with other scriptures you see that when you see it is because you have been drawn away from God by your own lusts, and if you give into them and continue to obey them they become your master again leading you to death; Unless you repent !!!

You saying we are worthy of condemnation every second, every minute, and everyday is a bad and sad way to live.
My faith and trust is in the Lord, and not on myself as I have no need by Him being my Lord to walk in fear as your statement here speaks of. If you believe you deserve to be condemned everyday, you need to pray to God more and ask for more guidance and peace through the Holy Spirit. Because it is obvious by this statement you do not have peace in the spirit yet.

I don't place myself above others, nor do I judge them as that is your false allegation. What I do is give the same warnings to believers that Paul gave to believers back then. I think Dconn would be upset with some of you, because he started this thread to disprove that it is a lie that OSAS believers teach they can live however they want, including in willful sins. Some of you are proven the this lie to be truth, by stating things like we can live carnal minded and still be saved and we will sin every second, every minute, everyday. When will you surrender your total self to God ?
If you have you would not be thinking this way about sins, and would realize as a believer you can put them off and not walk in them any more. That it is possible to go hours, days, and weeks without sinning......

 

[Jason0047]

Being born again - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
not of corruptible seed = that which is born of the flesh is flesh
but of incorruptible [seed] = that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
by [which can also be interpreted as "through"] the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever = Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We are born again of "incorruptible seed" = Spirit.

1 John 5:12 doesn't refute anything. If I am born again - I have the Son. If I fall out of fellowship - I still have the Son because of what God created in me and sealed me with when I first believed.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: (Rom. 8:16) he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (John 3:16) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life (John 3:18) These things have I written to you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

The devils also believe and tremble. True faith produces results because God lives within a person. 1 John 5 is in context to 1 John 3 that says if we do not love our brother, then we are a murderer, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. You said before that you can be out of fellowship and still be saved. Again, 1 John 5:12 says he that does not have the Son does not have life. Pretty simple to me.

 

[Jason0047]

Are you serious... thy word is a lamp unto my feet.
You're so blinded by your preconceived ideas that you can't read objectively. Let me try to explain John 3:19-21.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Light has come into the world and men loved darkness more than light. PERIOD. Why did they love darkness more? Because their deeds are evil. It doesn't say darkness is evil deeds... It says men loved darkness (absence of truth) because their deeds were evil.


Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Every one that does evil hates the light (truth) because the light (truth) reproves their evil deeds.


Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
But he that does good comes to the light (truth) so that his good deeds can be proven to come from God... not from themselves.

16 Bible verses about Darkness, As A Symbol Of Sin

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Again, folks here are making the focus back on the person instead of the Word of God. What does the Word of God say on the matter? A sin and still be saved doctrine is the belief that you can sin with no remorse, confession, and or striving to forsake sin as a requirement for your right standing with God. You can just abide in whatever sin you like and you are saved no matter what. But 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, and Romans 6:15 say exactly the opposite, though.

As for being sinless: God calls us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect. The Scriptures say for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. It's a matter of what is your focus. Are you focused on walking after the Spirit or the flesh? You can't do both because Jesus said no man can serve two masters. When a believer confesses their sin, they are forgiven and cleansed of that sin and they strive to forsake that sin with God's help. They are slaves to rightoeusness and not unrighteousness. They walk in the Spirit and not in the ways of the devil and sin. A believer is not forgiven if there is no change in their life and they are still serving themselves and the pleasure of their sin. This is not Works Salvationism. It is Regeneratonism or Relationshipism. If God lives within a person, they will be changed spiritually.

Salvation is based on our belief in Jesus Christ - God's grace through our faith in Christ is what brings about salvation.

God knew we would not be "perfect" that is why Jesus Christ is our advocate - our defense attorney - and is why we have provisions such as 1 John 1:9. It is why we needed a Savior in the first place. Forsaking sin is NOT a requirement for salvation.

"This is not Works Salvationism" - "forsake sin as a requirement for your right standing with God" - Righteousness is our ability to have right standing with God. Our righteousness comes to us through Jesus Christ - NOT our works.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom. 5:19

But now the righteousness of god without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier. Rom. 5:21-26

Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? God that justifieth? [Will God that justifieth?]
Who is he that condemneth? Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us?

If God lives within a person, they will be changed spiritually. - True one is changed "spiritually" . . . Does that include "physically"? Or do we have to work with the old man nature?

 

[Jason0047]

Dear Eternally Grateful:

You gave a "like" to Peaceful Believer's Post #548. You told me that you do not believe in a licentious gospel. Yet she just said recently Post #553 that forsaking sin is not a requirement for salvation. I am saying this because there are OSAS proponents around you who do not believe like you do (And you don't even know it). I say this because the OSAS message is rarely taught with holiness. at least this is my experience when I debate OSAS over the many years. In fact, I usually have to twist people's arms to get them to admit they living holy and that they repent is a requirement for a true believer. I mean, Jesus said if you don't forgive, then you will not be forgiven. How on Earth can OSAS be read into that verse? Salvation is Conditional it is not locked in once you believe.

 

[kennethcadwell]

A christian can not LIVE carnally minded.

Any time a person sins, it comes from the carnal flesh, But a Christian can not live in sin 24/7 You think God allows that, why do you think he chastens them? more importanlty. why do you think YOU can or could withstand the chastening of God?

If so, they would LIVE IN SIN.

John says a child of God can not sin, because they have been born of God.

Why is it the word NOT means nothing to you. and the word ETERNAL means nothing to you?

Why are you fighting it?

Carnal mind means you always set your mind and ways on the flesh.
The bible also states that you can not live both giving into the lust of flesh constantly/habitually, and belong to Him and serve Him both. This would be the luke warm person that He says He will spit out, you either chose to serve Him or you chose to serve flesh.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(For those who believe the death here is only in reference to physical death in the flesh, Paul gives you your answer in a previous scripture of the flip side of what the obedience unto righteousness leads to/is.)

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

That is exactly what Paul is meaning here.
I know a lot of you want to not look at it that way just because the exact words are not in that passage, as you all do on other passages in which Peter makes a statement to show this is why in depth study comes in. And when you use the whole context of the passage and use other scriptures to interpret scripture you come to the truth. And the truth here is if you live carnal minded you will not receive eternal life, but the second death (spiritual death) in the lake of fire.
Paul is not talking about life in the flesh, when he refers to spiritual minded receiving life. He makes this evident in 1 Timothy 4:8 when he shows to walk in godliness (Spirit) leads to eternal life.

you are adding the word "eternal" - That is exactly what Paul is meaning here. It is explained what he means - For they that are after the flesh do mind the thing of the flesh; [carnally minded] but they that are after the Spirit [spiritually minded] the things of the Spirit. To be spiritually minded is life and peace . . . to be carnally minded is death - no life, no peace, no joy, no hope.
"this is why in depth study comes in" - Do you believe that I have not studied? You actually believe that I would just post willy nilly around this forum? I would NEVER post before actually looking things up or studying first. I am responsible for the words I say.

 

[Jason0047]

you are adding the word "eternal" - That is exactly what Paul is meaning here. It is explained what he means - For they that are after the flesh do mind the thing of the flesh; [carnally minded] but they that are after the Spirit [spiritually minded] the things of the Spirit. To be spiritually minded is life and peace . . . to be carnally minded is death - no life, no peace, no joy, no hope.
"this is why in depth study comes in" - Do you believe that I have not studied? You actually believe that I would just post willy nilly around this forum? I would NEVER post before actually looking things up or studying first. I am responsible for the words I say.

Eternal life or Immortality is a property of God. It is not a super power. No God = No life or salvation. 1 Timothy 6:16 says Christ alone has immortality. Yet folks here say people will burn for all eternity. So the wicked have eternal life, too? Everyone just naturally has eternal life? Doesn't make any sense to me. Only God has eternal life and we can only possess it by abiding in Him. The wicked will be destroyed like a branch being cast into the fire.

Christ says I come to give you life, and to give it to you more abundantly.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The devils also believe and tremble. True faith produces results because God lives within a person. 1 John 5 is in context to 1 John 3 that says if we do not love our brother, then we are a murderer, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. You said before that you can be out of fellowship and still be saved. Again, 1 John 5:12 says he that does not have the Son does not have life. Pretty simple to me.

We are talking about salvation - are we not? But you believe and are teaching that God lives in us - then God leaves us - God lives in us - then God leaves us . . . . . .

And I am not going through 1 John 5 again - no purpose in it.

Since Kenneth won't answer these questions - maybe you will.

So again - you do not believe that a person is actually born again of Spirit?
And that birth is permanent?
And you believe that when one is born again - that "seed" implanted in them can be corrupted?
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life - NOT a promise we can depend on but an "only if" promise?
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved - Is IF attached to this? only if, if, if, if . . . . .

 

[kennethcadwell]

you are adding the word "eternal" - That is exactly what Paul is meaning here. It is explained what he means - For they that are after the flesh do mind the thing of the flesh; [carnally minded] but they that are after the Spirit [spiritually minded] the things of the Spirit. To be spiritually minded is life and peace . . . to be carnally minded is death - no life, no peace, no joy, no hope.
"this is why in depth study comes in" - Do you believe that I have not studied? You actually believe that I would just post willy nilly around this forum? I would NEVER post before actually looking things up or studying first. I am responsible for the words I say.

Use scripture to interpret scripture;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


When Paul is talking about life, he is referring to eternal life as we can see here by this comparison I just gave you.
And I saw how you put that forsaking/abstaining from sins is not needed for salvation in #553, sorry but that is what repentance, baptism, and confession is all about. In order to receive remission from sins and to turn and walk properly, if you are not walking properly then you are not obeying His commands and therefore do not receive remission of your sins. Because if you are not abstaining from your sins then you are not producing works or fruit worthy of repentance, and if you do not receive remission you will still perish is a clear teaching of the bible.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Eternal life or Immortality is a property of God. It is not a super power. No God = No life or salvation. 1 Timothy 6:16 says Christ alone has immortality. Yet folks here say people will burn for all eternity. So the wicked have eternal life, too? Everyone just naturally has eternal life? Doesn't make any sense to me. Only God has eternal life and we can only possess it by abiding in Him. The wicked will be destroyed like a branch being cast into the fire.

Christ says I come to give you life, and to give it to you more abundantly.

This whole response doesn't make any sense to me. Who said anything about immortality? Who said anything about the wicked having eternal life?