The Church and Anti Antisemitism,Can We Talk About It?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Sophia

Guest
#61
If Paul is from one of those tribes, then they are part of his bloodline.
We can assume they are part of the final remnant and the dispersion....2000 yrs later? Yes?
(or whenever you believe that these 144k were sealed off?) IMO--Since the description of the 144,000 isn't untll, between the 6th and 7th seals, I'm going to assume that these were/are sealed off WAY after the cross?

You have to read Rev 14.

Revelation 14
They sing a new song?/ A new prayer?
What could possibly be "new" at this point?
No deceit is found in their mouths?
No deceit? We all have sin in some of our talk?
No one can learn this song?
Well that leave out Christians then?
Firstfruits to God, then the Lamb?

All I know is that.....
They are neither just Christians or just "Jews"
So what is the other alternative?

*Also the "new song" they sing is described in Revelation 5:9
But how is there purpose separate from the rest of the Remnant?
 

longtrekker

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
396
194
43
#62
The Hitler connection is a moot point - Hitler may have been baptisted Roman Catholic but he was no Christian - u can completely dismiss it next time people throw that at u. Hitler's 'table talk' records show definitively he actually despised Christianity. He compared it communism.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#63
While I welcome contributions Tribesman I hope you will not derail the thread into arguments that have nothing to do with the OP.There has been antisemitism in the church,the church has publicly apologized for this.I am wanting to discuss the churches antisemitism and where we have failed. So please keep that in mind.Thank you.
On this, I would propose that the true Church never persecuted the Jews, but only the wolves and those deceived by the wolves.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#64
The Hitler connection is a moot point - Hitler may have been baptisted Roman Catholic but he was no Christian - u can completely dismiss it next time people throw that at u. Hitler's 'table talk' records show definitively he actually despised Christianity. He compared it communism.
No I do believe Hitler was into the occult.But 95% of Germany claimed to be Christians as persecution of the Jews steadily escalated.Surely not all of them were fake Christians? I dont know,that fact is alarming to me.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#65
But how is there purpose separate from the rest of the Remnant?
Does it?
I'm saying that Paul was the first of this type of follower....the 144,000 are?...well....a more suped up version of this I suppose?
How old were the Apostles when they received Christ as the truth?
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't expected them to just drop their beliefs all the way, being instilled since birth. ( not just them, but any remnant that still followed the Word by the time of the cross)

Basically, they can't be just be/ Christianity .....or all they way/ Judaism.
Somewhere in between where they understand ALL of the Bible in it's perfect harmony.

They have to believe something that we (you or I) don't understand or else Revelation 14 is a lie, right?..... because these 144,000 are the ONLY ones who can sing and understand this " new song."

Call them what you want, (if we must give them a label :))
They are with the Lamb in Rev 14, but have the Father's seal on them, what else could that mean?
Messianic Jews, Hebrew Christians--- they---like Christianity, have a ton of names they go by.

These still read from the same Bible you and I do.....they are not Buddhists or into some weird goofy religion?

I said I understand who they are, I never said I understand what their purpose is.....Revelation 14 states that I can not understand it.....only they can or will.

Is the 144,000 a literal number? Not sure?
 
Last edited:
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#66
Maybe its better to be clear that I believe in dispensationalism,which is obvious to some.And also Zionism.That is where I'm coming from.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#67
Does it?
I'm saying that Paul was the first of this type of follower....the 144,000 are?...well....a more suped up version of this I suppose?
How old were the Apostles when they received Christ as the truth?
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't expected them to just drop their beliefs all the way, being instilled since birth. ( not just them, but any remnant that still followed the Word by the time of the cross)

Basically, they can't be just be/ Christianity .....or all they way/ Judaism.
Somewhere in between where they understand ALL of the Bible in it's perfect harmony.

They have to believe something that we (you or I) don't understand or else Revelation 14 is a lie, right?..... because these 144,000 are the ONLY ones who can sing and understand this " new song."

Call them what you want, (if we must give them a label :))
They are with the Lamb in Rev 14, but have the Father's seal on them, what else could that mean?
Messianic Jews, Hebrew Christians--- they---like Christianity, have a ton of names they go by.

These still read from the same Bible you and I do.....they are not Buddhists or into some weird goofy religion?

I said I understand who they are, I never said I understand what their purpose is.....Revelation 14 states that I can not understand it.....only they can or will.

Is the 144,000 a literal number? Not sure?
I don't think that following Judaism is even a partial thought in the 144k. Judaism is a false religion that harms and obscures the view of God. If this number is literal, and the implications literal, then they will be of Hebrew descent (not Jewish alone. Only 12k will be Jewish, and the rest are likely living unknowing of their ancestry entirely), and will be pure: likely converting to Christianity young, and remaining faithful.

This group is either collected from the Beginning, and including OT Saints as well as NT Saints,
or it is a future group, sealed and gathered from within a single End Time generation.

I suppose I just don't understand the correlation to the topic at hand.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#68
I don't think that following Judaism is even a partial thought in the 144k. Judaism is a false religion that harms and obscures the view of God. If this number is literal, and the implications literal, then they will be of Hebrew descent (not Jewish alone. Only 12k will be Jewish, and the rest are likely living unknowing of their ancestry entirely), and will be pure: likely converting to Christianity young, and remaining faithful.

This group is either collected from the Beginning, and including OT Saints as well as NT Saints,
or it is a future group, sealed and gathered from within a single End Time generation.

I suppose I just don't understand the correlation to the topic at hand.

You stated all those things about Judaism, I agree with that part.....I just think you left out a huge part?
I agree with your thoughts on Babylon, btw.
This entire conversation is about Israel/ Jews what is considered Jew...anything etc..............this is a huge part of it.

I have talked to kaylagrl, I know her stance. Sorry btw.:)

I'm assuming you believe we are still in the 3rd Seal, or 4th Trumpet? or something like that?...which is cool.
Doesn't really matter, because this has turned into/been about establishing who the 144k are.

Anyone who debates/ignores Revelation 14, and the fact that it states a group (a very specific tiny group, not a whole new huge Christian branch) ....either is just ignoring what it says, has never really read it, or thinks that the 144,000 is just overall irrelevant to anything?

Important enough to make it into the Bible....I'd say that's pretty important?
Super important.
There is a checklist to what they do/are in Rev 14.
They are different then any other group, and it explains this very clearly once again ....yes, in Revelation 14.:(

They can not be/ Judaism or Christianity, because neither is "new".

And both can be "understood" by it's individual followers.
Revelation 5:9-- once again ---is not Jew/Christian type prayer.

The "Messianic Jew" movement is something that most don't understand or like...which baffles me, because they still read completely from the same Bible.

Funny, the big push on the MJ movement started right around the late 60's early 70's---right after the 6 day war...time of the Gentiles being fulfilled?
Naw, that's a coincidence. Nevermind.:(

A nasty label has been placed on them, my guess?.....we are afraid/automatically hate the things we do not understand?
I never said it sat well with me when I learned it.....took me weeks to grasp.

Then I thought, why though?
They believe the Bible....how is that even slightly wrong?
I wonder would everyone feel better if we just called them " Those that sing a different song, that you or I will not understand, but they are important enough to get their own seal by the Father and an entire section in Revelation Christians", ........since "Messianic Jew" is so nasty or "wrong"?:)

Oh well,.... all one can do is present it.
I understand.

God Bless Sisters.:)

 
S

Sophia

Guest
#69
You stated all those things about Judaism, I agree with that part.....I just think you left out a huge part?
I agree with your thoughts on Babylon, btw.
This entire conversation is about Israel/ Jews what is considered Jew...anything etc..............this is a huge part of it.

I have talked to kaylagrl, I know her stance. Sorry btw.:)

I'm assuming you believe we are still in the 3rd Seal, or 4th Trumpet? or something like that?...which is cool.
Doesn't really matter, because this has turned into/been about establishing who the 144k are.

Anyone who debates/ignores Revelation 14, and the fact that it states a group (a very specific tiny group, not a whole new huge Christian branch) ....either is just ignoring what it says, has never really read it, or thinks that the 144,000 is just overall irrelevant to anything?

Important enough to make it into the Bible....I'd say that's pretty important?
Super important.
There is a checklist to what they do/are in Rev 14.
They are different then any other group, and it explains this very clearly once again ....yes, in Revelation 14.:(

They can not be/ Judaism or Christianity, because neither is "new".

And both can be "understood" by it's individual followers.
Revelation 5:9-- once again ---is not Jew/Christian type prayer.

The "Messianic Jew" movement is something that most don't understand or like...which baffles me, because they still read completely from the same Bible.

Funny, the big push on the MJ movement started right around the late 60's early 70's---right after the 6 day war...time of the Gentiles being fulfilled?
Naw, that's a coincidence. Nevermind.:(

A nasty label has been placed on them, my guess?.....we are afraid/automatically hate the things we do not understand?
I never said it sat well with me when I learned it.....took me weeks to grasp.

Then I thought, why though?
They believe the Bible....how is that even slightly wrong?
I wonder would everyone feel better if we just called them " Those that sing a different song, that you or I will not understand, but they are important enough to get their own seal by the Father and an entire section in Revelation Christians", ........since "Messianic Jew" is so nasty or "wrong"?:)

Oh well,.... all one can do is present it.
I understand.

God Bless Sisters.:)

Rev 5:9-10 is an exclusively Christian prayer, the words sung to several tunes, and within many prayer books since pre-medieval times.

The description of the 144k focuses on virginity, not on them following the ceremonies and customs of the Letter of the Law.
Like the purity of Daniel, this is not a new group, but a group of extremely faithfulness.
I have nothing against the Messianic Jew movement (except for them holding to the dividing wall after it was clearly brought down. Their views on Jewish-Jewish marriage are also disturbing... but I digress.)
But they also do not represent 12 tribes. 3 tribes tops.

The point is that this group (if future) will also come out of Syria, and Iran, and Egypt, and from all over the place!
The lost 10 tribes will be found, and a remnant from each will be found pure and faithful.

This group will be distinct and set apart, but not a "new brand" of Christian. Denominationist pride gets to many of us. Don't let it ruin your doctrine.

Last point: I am not so sure the seals have been touched yet. And if they were, I have not been given the revelation of which have been opened... and such revelation would surely be general to all Believers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#70
Can I add, that I am neither Jewish or Messianic Jew, so this thought/idea benefits me absolutely none.
I am not a Messianic Jew crusader.

Before...I just thought they were confused. Or wrong.
I was wrong.....really wrong.
They follow the entire Bible....and they know something we don't know?
An understanding of OT and NT teachings that gives them a place in history?

Either or, It fulfills God's promise to Israel/Jacob....which are through the 12 tribes.

In person, if I were to have a Bible in front of us, (multiple versions) most will just walk away.....to caught up in defending their doctrine,.... instead of just looking at it....this is one area that can not be debated properly over the computer.

I did the same at first.
I hated the answer I was shown.

I just presented it to 5 elders, 3 weeks back, and they literally wanted to slap me for correcting them.
They were appreciative,.... but upset. Took them weeks to grasp.

Not saying that I'm right, but to properly show you this MJ connection, takes dozens and dozens of scripture, with countless flipping back and forth through new and old testaments verses. It goes well beyond Revelation into Romans, Peter, Daniel, Isaiah...on and on.

Hours and hours....which I'm going to assume will not happen.

Anyway, be well.:)
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#71
Can I add, that I am neither Jewish or Messianic Jew, so this thought/idea benefits me absolutely none.
I am not a Messianic Jew crusader.

Before...I just thought they were confused. Or wrong.
I was wrong.....really wrong.
They follow the entire Bible....and they know something we don't know?
An understanding of OT and NT teachings that gives them a place in history?

Either or, It fulfills God's promise to Israel/Jacob....which are through the 12 tribes.

In person, if I were to have a Bible in front of us, (multiple versions) most will just walk away.....to caught up in defending their doctrine,.... instead of just looking at it....this is one area that can not be debated properly over the computer.

I did the same at first.
I hated the answer I was shown.

I just presented it to 5 elders, 3 weeks back, and they literally wanted to slap me for correcting them.
They were appreciative,.... but upset. Took them weeks to grasp.

Not saying that I'm right, but to properly show you this MJ connection, takes dozens and dozens of scripture, with countless flipping back and forth through new and old testaments verses. It goes well beyond Revelation into Romans, Peter, Daniel, Isaiah...on and on.

Hours and hours....which I'm going to assume will not happen.

Anyway, be well.:)
I don't hate it, but I just disagree.
The "MJ" movement does not fulfill the 12 tribes, as they are only from Judah, Benjamin, and Levi... at best.
Even then, the genealogies are not there! How do they know if their great great great great grandfather was actually a convert and not from any line.

It is a convenient thought, but doesn't actually fulfill anything.

(Also, I highly doubt they have some secret knowledge that we are unaware of. That is a spiritually unhealthy assumption)
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#72
I don't hate it, but I just disagree.
The "MJ" movement does not fulfill the 12 tribes, as they are only from Judah, Benjamin, and Levi... at best.
Even then, the genealogies are not there! How do they know if their great great great great grandfather was actually a convert and not from any line.

It is a convenient thought, but doesn't actually fulfill anything.

(Also, I highly doubt they have some secret knowledge that we are unaware of. That is a spiritually unhealthy assumption)
No, Dear Sis....it's the right assumption. Revelation 14 states this.
Took me months to accept it....read it and understand it......you overlooked it....and denied it in 20 minutes.
Truth, doesn't work that way, sorry.

Failure to do proper homework, doesn't mean the person you disagree with is wrong....or nuts.

If it's a matter of each of us feeling "special"...well, God/Jesus sealed off the 144K.....I don't know what to say?
Obviously 144k, are special enough to make it in the book.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#73
No, Dear Sis....it's the right assumption.Revelation 14 states this.
Took me months to accept it....read it and understand it......you overlooked it....and denied it in 20 minutes.
Truth, doesn't work that way, sorry.

If it's a matter of each of us feeling special...well, God/Jesus sealed off the 144K.....I don't know what to say?
Obviously 144k, are special enough to make it in the book.
Yes... the 144k have this ...
but you assume the MJ have this secret knowledge...
spiritually unhealthy assumption.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#74
The song is not simply Hebrew, because anyone can learn Hebrew. There is something supernatural preventing others from learning.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#75
Yes... the 144k have this ...
but you assume the MJ have this secret knowledge...
spiritually unhealthy assumption.
I remember being 27. :D
The good ol' days.

Did I say "secret knowledge".....secret understanding maybe?
I'm sorry, I meant to say they have an certain understanding of the new and old testaments.
And maybe follow it to the letter front and back? I also said I did not understand their purpose, .....like twice.

No matter what every Christian says.....they only follow the Bible "all the way" in theory...in their heads.
I apologize if you visit people in prison, or do the countless other things Christ states that we should , but don't "have to" do......

No one does these things, not even I.

I guess you think a "new song" is nothing special, oh well, I pick and choose scripture I follow. or is worth my time and understanding too?
See?....none of us are perfect.

But the 144k?..."have no deceit" in their mouths...sorry, quoting scripture.
 
Last edited:
S

Sophia

Guest
#76
I remember being 27. :D
The good ol' days.

Did I say "secret knowledge".....secret understanding maybe?
I'm sorry, I meant to say they have an certain understanding of the new and old testaments.
And maybe follow it to the letter front and back? I also said I did not understand their purpose, .....like twice.

No matter what every Christian says.....they only follow the Bible "all the way" in theory...in their heads.
I apologize if you visit people in prison, or do the countless other things Christ states that we should , but don't "have to" do......

No one does these things, not even I.

I guess you think a "new song" is nothing special, oh well, I pick and choose scripture I follow. or is worth my time and understanding too?
See?....none of us are perfect.

But the 144k?..."have no deceit" in their mouths...sorry, quoting scripture.
But even saying these things, and then relating them to MJ... it's just not them. I just don't see where you get the connection to Messianic Jews.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#77
But even saying these things, and then relating them to MJ... it's just not them. I just don't see where you get the connection to Messianic Jews.
I hate to use his name.....do you know Hizikyah here? ( that how you spell it?, IDK)
(What up Hiz, if you read this)

You ever read his posts?
He mixed Old and New Testament verses, and does such in an odd Messianic-Hebrew-Jewish-Christian-Legalist way.
Many have battled him......he even discredits Paul?? (which I don't agree with)

It's like he reads OT and NT, and overshoots it, overanalyzes it, and has no trust for the teachings of another man.
I feel for him, he's an alright guy. People are harsh on him.
Weird thing is...Hiz is NOT a Messianic Jew. He might as well be one though.

But he's the perfect example of how a Messianic Jew must see scripture somewhat......like literally, that whole to every letter- type way.
It's almost intriguing to see how he views scripture...I don't agree.... but this is my best example here on CC.

First you have to understand how they view OT and how they follow Christ's teachings.....then you can start to see where I am going with all of this.
 
Last edited:
S

Sophia

Guest
#78
I hate to use his name.....do you know Hizikyah here? ( that how you spell it?, IDK)
(What up Hiz, if you read this)

You ever read his posts?
He mixed Old and New Testament verses, and does such in an odd Messianic-Hebrew-Jewish-Christian-Legalist way.
Many have battled him......he even discredits Paul?? (which I don't agree with)

It's like he reads OT and NT, and overshoots it, overanalyzes it, and has no trust for the teachings of another man.
I feel for him, he's an alright guy. People are harsh on him.
Weird thing is...Hiz is NOT a Messianic Jew. He might as well be one though.

But he's the perfect example of how a Messianic Jew must see scripture somewhat......like literally, that whole to every letter- type way.
It's almost intriguing to see how he views scripture...I don't agree.... but this is my best example here on CC.
First you have to understand how they view OT and how they follow Christ's teachings.....then you can start to see where I am going with all of this.
I rarely disagree with Hiz... that I know of. We seem to like the same topics at least, and agree on those ones.

I'm not sure that even a certain special hermeneutic can explain the lack of anyone being able to learn a song, except this group.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
#79
I rarely disagree with Hiz... that I know of. We seem to like the same topics at least, and agree on those ones.

I'm not sure that even a certain special hermeneutic can explain the lack of anyone being able to learn a song, except this group.

I said Hiz was cool.
We have PM'd quite a bit.
You have to admit he is unlike any other CC member? His vast knowledge of overall scripture is beyond impressive.
His ability to reference any verse in minutes?

Yes, still....he knows he thinks completely different than anyone on here.
I just don't know why he thinks this way?...it sounds MJ-ish...and he's on a Christian site showing/pushing us on OT teachings??


Anyway, there is a connection...takes tons of scripture though sis.......
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#80
I hate to use his name.....do you know Hizikyah here? ( that how you spell it?, IDK)
(What up Hiz, if you read this)

You ever read his posts?
He mixed Old and New Testament verses, and does such in an odd Messianic-Hebrew-Jewish-Christian-Legalist way.
Many have battled him......he even discredits Paul?? (which I don't agree with)

It's like he reads OT and NT, and overshoots it, overanalyzes it, and has no trust for the teachings of another man.
I feel for him, he's an alright guy. People are harsh on him.
Weird thing is...Hiz is NOT a Messianic Jew. He might as well be one though.

But he's the perfect example of how a Messianic Jew must see scripture somewhat......like literally, that whole to every letter- type way.
It's almost intriguing to see how he views scripture...I don't agree.... but this is my best example here on CC.

First you have to understand how they view OT and how they follow Christ's teachings.....then you can start to see where I am going with all of this.
Follower of Messiah grafted into Israyl if the Most High is willing!

2 John (Yahchanan) 1:9, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Messiah, hath not Yah."

John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John (Yahchanan) 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Yahchanan (John) 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

he wrote about Me: Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

We have a new High Priest but the Insturctions/Torah/Law is still our life guide! :)


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; nd He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of Yah is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." (ESV)