Tired of the Big LIE

[notuptome]

Yes, "earnest money" is "a legal real estate term", BUT "earnest money" can be returned to the one who gave it. In fact, twice, in just the last four years, my wife and I have received back "earnest money" which we had given when the houses which we "earnestly" intended to buy FAILED INSPECTION.

Somebody will get it...

God does not fail inspection. The reason He had to purchase you is that you already failed inspection. You were sold under sin but now through the blood of Christ you are redeemed.

Gods word never returns to Him void but always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it. Isaiah 55:11

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

A gospel of Christ is also a gospel of obedience on our part:

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (2 Thessalonians 2:8-9)

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17)

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. (Colossians 1:23)


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” (Romans 10:16)


As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:9)

Is that the gospel you received? The gospel produces obedience but obedience cannot produce the gospel. All we can do is believe and receive. Christ did all that was necessary and His blood makes complete atonement for our sin. The Father is satisfied and by His stripes we are healed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I do repent all the time and I bear good fruit, but I make mistakes. I'm not without sin.

Every Christian is given the righteousness of God in Christ, to replace the flesh unrighteousness. You seem to say you repent of some sins, but hang on to others, always remaining with sin, so call yourself a sinner. Upon true repentance a person is at least for a while sin-free until sinning again, else it is isn't true the Lord forgives upon repenting. But he does do that, enabling us to increasingly live by faith, as all the Just ought to do.

A major part of salvation is that by the help of the Spirit we should stop thinking ourselves as sinners, but "I am righteous in Christ." When righteous our first impression is to do the words of Christ. Reading the 4 gospels you won't see much theology from Jesus. He taught people how to enter into the Kingdom, and what to do there, how to live pleasing to God. He was very practical. There epistles carry on with theology helping us to catch up to the full mind of Christ. That's why it all comes into us, two helpers, the Spirit and the word, even our very faith.

Having the righteousness of Christ in me doesn't mean I no longer sin at all. It makes me be quick to repent, and quicker to not enter into a sin situation. As fruit of the spirit grows in me, I exercise wisdom, which is often just clamping my mouth shut instead of sinning with my tongue.

Galatians 2:15-21 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[PWE]

All we can do is believe and receive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You say all we have to do is "believe and receive".

Paul says we must "hold fast" and "continue in" the gospel. Got to go with Paul on this one:

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. (Colossians 1:23)

Paul says there is only one gospel:

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:9)

I can’t find the “believe and receive” gospel without continuing and holding fast.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Is that the gospel you received? The gospel produces obedience but obedience cannot produce the gospel. All we can do is believe and receive. Christ did all that was necessary and His blood makes complete atonement for our sin. The Father is satisfied and by His stripes we are healed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The disobedient can't enter in God's way. Nobody is saved without first believing and repenting. To repent of sin is obeying a major condition for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. A former sinner can begin obeying the words of Jesus, living by faith, growing in the word of God.

 

[Jason0047]

How can you make a TRUE statement like this and then say that it is up to YOU to keep your salvation.
You are teaching that the receiving of salvation is of God , but the keeping of salvation is of man.
I do not live in sin. Sin does not control my life. But yes I sin every day. I confess those sin every day. And I am forgiven every day.
You can call it mistakes or slipping up if you wish, but sin is sin.

First, Galatians 5:24 says, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Yet, you say you sin every day. However, Scripture says, "they that are Christ's have crucified... the affections and lusts."

Who am I going to believe? You or Scripture?

Well, I say this in love, but I choose Scripture.

Second, you say "sin" does not control your life yet you then also say that you sin every day. That is like an alcoholic who says drinking does not control him anymore and yet he is drinking daily.

 

[notuptome]

You say all we have to do is "believe and receive".

Paul says we must "hold fast" and "continue in" the gospel. Got to go with Paul on this one:

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, [SUP]2 [/SUP]by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. (Colossians 1:23)

Paul says there is only one gospel:

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:9)

I can’t find the “believe and receive” gospel without continuing and holding fast.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

You are going to hold fast to what?

Jesus is holding fast to me. I'm sheltered in the palm of His hand.

Good luck depending on yourself. I'm just going to depend on Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

The disobedient can't enter in God's way. Nobody is saved without first believing and repenting. To repent of sin is obeying a major condition for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. A former sinner can begin obeying the words of Jesus, living by faith, growing in the word of God.

We have disagreed strongly on some other topics (And I meant no ill will towards you) (And I do apologize if my words might have seen harsh), but I am so happy we can agree on the basics, my friend.

May God bless you so much.

 

[PWE]

Nobody is saved without first believing and repenting. To repent of sin is obeying a major condition for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. A former sinner can begin obeying the words of Jesus, living by faith, growing in the word of God.

Agree. We do the “works befitting repentance” before we are saved:

…that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. (Acts 26:20)

Even when we do this, we do not earn our salvation:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’” (Luke 17:10)

 

[Word_Swordsman]

if we can't earn salvation.

we can't earn our way out of salvation either.

thus, eternal security is true, or you are trying to earn your salvation.

The galation church had false teachers who taught you could lose salvation also. Paul called anyone who listened to them fools.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

True, we can't earn our salvation, but must believe and repent first. Those are not once and for all time decisions covering 10 minutes as a child long ago. Those must continue all our days. If we stop believing and/or repenting then we make Christ minister of sin.
That verse has to do with Christians whose beginning was in the Spirit, but were being taught by false teachers/Judaizers to add the Law of Moses back in.

 

[notuptome]

The disobedient can't enter in God's way. Nobody is saved without first believing and repenting. To repent of sin is obeying a major condition for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. A former sinner can begin obeying the words of Jesus, living by faith, growing in the word of God.

Well if you want to assert that coming to Jesus and confessing that you are a sinner and asking Jesus to save you can be accomplished with repentance then I wonder what you got.

You see when I got saved everything changed. I became a new creation in Christ. The things I felt and did changed. Jesus changed me not me changing me. 2 Corinthians 5:17

If you are changing yourself through some form of repentance then perhaps you got something other than what I got. You see Jesus saved without condition. Jesus saved me because He loves me not because I loved Him. Since He saved me I can love Him.

Conversion is a really big event. Sanctification is a really long term process. Glorification is a future event to which I look forward with great anticipation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

if we can't earn salvation.

we can't earn our way out of salvation either.

thus, eternal security is true, or you are trying to earn your salvation.

The galation church had false teachers who taught you could lose salvation also. Paul called anyone who listened to them fools.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you just refuted yourself here. You said before that a believer cannot hold to a licentous (Antinomian) gospel view and now you are saying that a believer cannot earn his/her way out of salvation. Again, I believe this to be the case because you hold to the idea that all born again believers are the only ones that live penitent and holy lives. For in your view, God is not going to honor His Word in others repenting and accepting Christ according to God's Word just because he knows they will not endure in their faith. God only accepts the Elect or those He knows will endure in their faith. Am I correct or no? I just want to clarify where you are coming from.

Anyways, peace, love, and grace be unto you from the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

True, we can't earn our salvation, but must believe and repent first. Those are not once and for all time decisions covering 10 minutes as a child long ago. Those must continue all our days. If we stop believing and/or repenting then we make Christ minister of sin.
That verse has to do with Christians whose beginning was in the Spirit, but were being taught by false teachers/Judaizers to add the Law of Moses back in.

Agreed. Salvation is not Antinomianism (i.e. an ignoring of God's moral laws and a refusing to repent) and Salvation is not Works Salvationism, either.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I hope that you did not underline "hope of eternal life" as we are suppose to "hope" [in today's meaning] as in I only hope I have eternal life, or I am wishing to gain eternal life . . . because "hope" had a much stronger intent then than in our English vernacular.

hope - elpis -

1. expectation of evil, fear
2. expectation of good, hope
   1. in the Christian sense
   2. joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
3. on hope, in hope, having hope
4. the author of hope, or he who is its foundation
5. the thing hoped for
   
   We are to have an EXPECTATION, JOYFUL, CONFIDENT EXPECTATION of eternal salvation, i.e. eternal life. It has been promised!
   
   

Yes but even so if you look at the definition you just gave it still says that it is an expectation of receiving it, not that it is already an actual physical possession of ours right now. So your definition does not change the fact I have been saying all along that it is a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......


Assurance and expectation are two different words with similar meanings, that state of the confidence of getting something to come......

To include works into the equation with salvation - you believe in a work based salvation.

Even when the apostles asked what shall we do that we might work the works of God - and Jesus answered them: This is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

James 1:22 - you can't do the word without salvation FIRST.

Yes this is the order - (bold from above) hear, get salvation, then do- hear the word - faith comes by hearing; then Romans 10:9,10; NOW you begin your WALK, your FELLOWSHIP, Your DOING. . . .

Well did Jesus say those who sit on their butts and do nothing get salvation, or did He say those who do, follow, and live out God's will in their life get salvation ?


My Lord Jesus in His words in the bible says those who do, not those who don't do.
He says much was given to us, and much will be required. The bible gives all over it standards of a born again believer, and states along with them that if those standards are not in your life then you are not a true born again believer. This does not mean you have to work to earn salvation which seems to be something you can not get over in looking at. As nobody can do that. It is about walking in love, obedience, and forgiveness as a true born again believer will do. If you are not walking in love, obedience, and forgiveness the bible makes it very clear you are not born again.
The bible clearly states we will know believers and unbelievers by their actions (fruit), if you say we can continue to live however we want because actions/works don't matter then the bible would be lying. Because there would be no way to tell one from the other, and the bible does state that there will be some who profess Him but they really are not.

 

[Jason0047]

if we can't earn salvation.

we can't earn our way out of salvation either.

thus, eternal security is true, or you are trying to earn your salvation.

The galation church had false teachers who taught you could lose salvation also. Paul called anyone who listened to them fools.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

I also want to say that you did say before that you did not believe in an Antinomian gospel. If this is the case: Then obviously you are not saying in this post here that the believer who cannot earn his way of salvation is not going to come back to the Lord by repenting and living holy again. For clearly this believer is going to come back to living right with God again. Right? Again, I say this so as to understand where you are coming from.

 

[PWE]

You are going to hold fast to what?

Jesus is holding fast to me. I'm sheltered in the palm of His hand.

Good luck depending on yourself. I'm just going to depend on Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You ask: You are going to hold fast to what?

…if you hold fast that word which I preached to you… (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

…if indeed you continue in the faith… (Colossians 1:23)

…faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God… (Romans 10:17)


You say: Jesus is holding fast to me. I'm sheltered in the palm of His hand.

Good luck depending on yourself. I'm just going to depend on Jesus.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

 

[Utah]

I am trying to understand where you are coming from. I want to state again, that I do not believe every believer will live perfectly sinless the moment they repent of their sins and accept Christ. But they will not abide in unrepentant sin as a way of life after they receive Christ. Meaning, there is a difference between stumbling on occasion and being fallen the entire time. The stumble type confesses their sin and they forsake it with God's help. They strive to not sin in their life because they know sin had once separated Adam and Eve from God. Then there is the fallen type. Those who think they can be fallen into a lifestyle of sin as a way of life with the thinking that they are saved. Meaning, no sin can separate them from the love of Christ. Sure, they might have a righteous attitude sometimes, but confessing and forsaking sin is not necessary for salvation for the fallen type. The fallen types behavior is no different than that of an unbeliever. So my question is: Are you the stumble type of believer or are you the fallen type of believer?

Please forgive me of the labels involved. I am merely trying to understand where you are coming from.

Also, you have to realize that God does not refer to his followers as sinners after they are saved. Believers are referred to as saints and not sinners once they have been converted, or born again, whereby they follow Jesus and His good ways.

Oh, and please take note:

Holiness and fruitful works are not done so as to be saved, but they are merely the proof that you have been saved. Just as a real fire puts off heat versus say a TV image of a fire. The real thing has real results.

Only faith in Jesus Christ brings salvation.
Works does not bring salvation.
Aborted children, children who die before the age of reason, believers who are never baptized, and people who are profoundly mentally handicapped have salvation because God's grace is sufficient.
Once saved always saved unless you emphatically have a change of heart and become a nonbeliever.
Possible consequences may exist for deliberate sinners but not loss of salvation.
No sin can separate us from God's love.
No believer lives perfectly. None. Zero. Zippo. Ninguno.
I am a believer that backslides.
Animals are in Heaven.

 

[Jason0047]

if we can't earn salvation.

we can't earn our way out of salvation either.

thus, eternal security is true, or you are trying to earn your salvation.

The galation church had false teachers who taught you could lose salvation also. Paul called anyone who listened to them fools.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

As for Galatians 3:3: Well, as I said several times before, I do not believe in Salvation by works. I am strongly against it. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you are not teaching Antinomianism and believe you. However, I would respect it if you believe the same for me when I say something that I believe, too. As I said before, I have argued with Works Salvationists before and I have used Galatians 3:3 in my defense against them.

In any event, may God's love shine upon you greatly this fine day.

 

[Utah]

you did not answer all the questions...Jesus loves the whole world not only you.....that’s why he died for us...

1)if you confess and repent of your sins....do you still have sins or are they all forgiven???...

2)if all your sins are forgiven ...you are without sin...or are you not?.....

3)so when you find out you are without sin... do you go and deliberately sin so that you cannot be without sin...to prove your case...

Question 1: Forgiven
Question 2: Without sin, but am still a sinner, who is without sin, but am still a sinner. See how that works?
Question 3: Normally do not deliberately sin but backslide.

And I obviously never insinuated God only loves me so I don't understand the condescending attitude. You asked ME those questions, not the WHOLE WORLD. That's why I answered them pertaining to ME!

 

[Jason0047]

Only faith in Jesus Christ brings salvation.
Works does not bring salvation.

I do not believe in Works Savlationism, either. I just said this in my recent post. This is the standard lie that keeps getting pushed upon me when I tell them I do not believe that. In fact, as I said before, I have argued many times against Works Salvationists. Repentance is not a work. Anymore than you accepting Christ is a work. It takes no effort to say you are sorry to God. And not doing evil things is not a burden, chore, or work either (If that is what you believe). Good works are preaching the gospel, reading your Bible, helping the poor, loving all people (Including your enemies), etc.

Aborted children, children who die before the age of reason, believers who are never baptized, and people who are profoundly mentally handicapped have salvation because God's grace is sufficient.

Scripture says sin is not imputed where there is no Law. Meaning, one way to understand that verse is that those who have no knowledge of the Law (Such as children and those who are mentally handicapped) do not have sin imputed to them. So Jesus's sacrifice covers the sin of Adam's disobedience that comes upon them.

Once saved always saved unless you emphatically have a change of heart and become a nonbeliever.

But what of those that Jesus said to those who did believe in Him but yet he said for them to depart from him because they worked iniquity? Are these Works Salvationists who lived holy lives? Jesus said to those false believers to depart because they worked iniquity. Peter defines the false prophets in 2 Peter 2 that they have eyes full of adultery and they cannot cease from sin. In other words, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and be saved. You agree, right?

Possible consequences may exist for deliberate sinners but not loss of salvation. No sin can separate us from God's love.

Yes, it can. If a believer does not forgive, they will not be forgiven. If they speak bad against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. If they take away from God's Word, the Lord will take his part out of the book of life.

No believer lives perfectly. None. Zero. Zippo. Ninguno.

Jesus says to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus would not say this if He did not think a believer could be perfect.

I am a believer that backslides.

James 5:19-20.

Animals are in Heaven.

Yes, I also believe all animals go to Heaven. Scripture says they have a soul and implies they will be taken to Heaven.