What is the key to heaven

[InSpiritInTruth]

A direct reference back to the keys of a davidic kingdom,
Isaiah 22 (from memory) which are the symbol of an office, as steward, in charge whilst the king was away.
The jews were obsessive about their own history, even more obsessive about the old testament and deriving meanings from it, so this meaning of keys will clearly have occurred to them, not least because Jesus was heralded as a davidic king, and the messiah would come from that line.

Trouble is, protestants don't like the obvious conclusion from that argument, even though Luther and Calvin believed it!

Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And how is this applied?

1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

The way the church carries out the work of God today is different than the first century. Neither the church or a man has the authority to loose or bind God's Law.

How do we receive power and authority from God?

 

[mikeuk]

Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Interesting association with shoulder - incidentally as a historic fact keys were carried across the shoulder because they were **huge** and became the symbol of office of steward


But the analogy you make fails because Eliakim , recipient of keys was not the king which was Hezekiah who gave them to him, so the davidic king was giving keys to his steward. Christ is the king, not steward.
.

 

[john832]

Sorry...no idea what that means!

The great universal church say you must not eat meat on Friday, especially during lent...

Throughout the Latin Church the law of abstinence prohibits all responsible subjects from indulging in meat diet on duly appointed days. Meat diet comprises the flesh, blood, or marrow of such animals and birds as constitute flesh meat according to the appreciation of intelligent and law-abiding Christians. For this reason the use of fish, vegetables, mollusks, crabs, turtles, frogs, and such-like cold-blooded creatures is not at variance with the law of abstinence. Amphibians are relegated to the category whereunto they bear most striking resemblance. - Catholic Online

Canon 1250 The penitential days and times in the universal Church are every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Canon 1251
Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Penance is a sacrament of the New Law instituted by Christ in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest's absolution to those who with true sorrow confess their sins and promise to satisfy for the same. - Catholic Encyclopedia

Penance (poenitentia) designates (I) a virtue; (2) a sacrament of the New Law; (3) a canonical punishment inflicted according to the earlier discipline of the Church; (4) a work of satisfaction enjoined upon the recipient of the sacrament. These have as their common center the truth that he who sins must repent and as far as possible make reparation to Divine justice. Repentance, i.e., heartfelt sorrow with the firm purpose of sinning no more, is thus the prime condition on which depends the value of whatever the sinner may do or suffer by way of expiation. - Catholic Encyclopedia

Basically, the doctrine of meatless Friday is that of doing penance. Penance is as stated above a work that pays for the sin committed. So if you suffer a little bit, sin is expiated.

This in contrast to the truth that only Christ's blood can pay for sin.

 

[john832]

How do we receive power and authority from God?

How much power and authority do you think you need?

 

[john832]

Interestingly , what I came to this forum for, was not to promote my own beliefs, but to find out how others come to an alternative belief.

Someone or something is given "authority to bind and loose" which had established meanings in judaism and jewish culture,

If you don't like the RC version - what is yours? You cannot ignore it as a scripture! So who does it apply to and when?

Post #15

(ten characters)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Interesting association with shoulder - incidentally as a historic fact keys were carried across the shoulder because they were **huge** and became the symbol of office of steward


But the analogy you make fails because Eliakim , recipient of keys was not the king which was Hezekiah who gave them to him, so the davidic king was giving keys to his steward. Christ is the king, not steward.
.

Go learn of the High priests garment, and what was upon the shoulder? Also the sign given in the righteous Governor Zerubbabel and the 7 eyes on one stone.

Zechariah 4:10
For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

 

[notuptome]

Interesting association with shoulder - incidentally as a historic fact keys were carried across the shoulder because they were **huge** and became the symbol of office of steward


But the analogy you make fails because Eliakim , recipient of keys was not the king which was Hezekiah who gave them to him, so the davidic king was giving keys to his steward. Christ is the king, not steward.
.

You poor man. You endeavor to explain Spiritual things with earthy ideas. If the kingdom of God were of this earth then Rome would no doubt have a set of keys in her archives that she would point to as those handed down by Peter from pope to succeeding pope.

The kingdom of God is Spiritual and the keys are Spiritual. The word of God is Spiritual and the Holy Spirit applies it to the hearts of men to this very day. The Steward of Christ is the Holy Spirit who is the Comforter sent from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mikeuk]

The great universal church say you must not eat meat on Friday, especially during lent...









Basically, the doctrine of meatless Friday is that of doing penance. Penance is as stated above a work that pays for the sin committed. So if you suffer a little bit, sin is expiated.

This in contrast to the truth that only Christ's blood can pay for sin.

Wow... No idea how you got from the thread subject to this, or how it relates to keys! Quite a leap

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

How much power and authority do you think you need?

Romans 12:3[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[mikeuk]

You poor man. You endeavor to explain Spiritual things with earthy ideas. If the kingdom of God were of this earth then Rome would no doubt have a set of keys in her archives that she would point to as those handed down by Peter from pope to succeeding pope.

The kingdom of God is Spiritual and the keys are Spiritual. The word of God is Spiritual and the Holy Spirit applies it to the hearts of men to this very day. The Steward of Christ is the Holy Spirit who is the Comforter sent from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then I am in poor company, because Jesus often used earthly ideas to explain spiritual things , such as parables!
Since you asked, each popes emblem contains two crossed keys, the powers to bind in earth and heaven.

I acknowledge your opinion , but it hardly lines up with the scriptures, and that the Jewish audience would not have understood it that way, because of their obsession with determining meaning from Old Testament, and Jesus often uses that.

 

[Jeff_56]

That is called the doctrine of the Primacy of Peter and says that the Catholic church has more authority than the Bible. Nope, I ain't buyin' it.

nobody got it right yet, btw. but remember the torah teachers, scribes, pharisees that jesus said held the keys
to heaven but would not enter in, and they wouldn't let a little one who was seeking the kingdom find the way either (if they could prevent everyone from the kingdom , they did).

jesus says the same thing almost today, with a very major change - about the rcc. they NEVER had the keys to heaven, they never could enter in, they never sought to enter in, and
they always try to prevent anyone from entering in, as hasatan is their god. period.

the amazing gift of salvation by grace through faith, a sheer gift of the creator himself, has still been

found by a few who used to be trapped in hasatan's heresy; as yahweh says he is no respecter of persons,

and anyone anywhere brought up in any nation or country or religion, if they seek him (in truth), they

will find him. no exception. that is yahweh's promise. they will find him.

then men went and screwed up with all sorts of corruptions and deceptions, even of the keys of heaven,

as hasatan does everything in his evil power to kill, steal and destroy, through the rcc and through most all

religions on earth. the point finally? seek yahweh or yahshua while there is a little light or possibility that you may find them. no man nor group on earth can grant eternal life, and most all men will try
to prevent you .

little children, (those who may find themselves here),

trust yahweh through yahshua's faithfulness,

and keep yourselves from idols.

 

[notuptome]

Then I am in poor company, because Jesus often used earthly ideas to explain spiritual things , such as parables!

They were and for the most part remain natural men unable to understand Spiritual matters. Remember that little thing about blindness upon them and their children?

Since you asked, each popes emblem contains two crossed keys, the powers to bind in earth and heaven.

I knew you would not disappoint. They are not the huge keys you suggested that Peter received but that's probably locked up in a vault in the Vatican.

I acknowledge your opinion , but it hardly lines up with the scriptures, and that the Jewish audience would not have understood it that way, because of their obsession with determining meaning from Old Testament, and Jesus often uses that.

Better you should come to know Christ whom to know aright is life eternal. The Jews at the time Jesus walked on this earth were apostate. If they had believed their own scriptures they would have recognized Jesus as their Messiah. Hidden from them, explained to the disciples and revealed to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Utah]

I would say salvation thru repentence is the key. Jesus is the way, the path that gets us there.

What about nonbelievers who have a repentant heart?

 

[gerjozen]

That is spot on, Knowledge. (Lk.11:52)

IGNORANCE OF THE WORD LEADS INTO ERROR & SIN
"You do err, for not knowing the Scriptures" (Matt.22:29)


ETERNAL LIFE IS IN THE SCRIPTUES
"Search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life: (Jn.5:39)

THE REASON WHY ETERNAL LIFE IS IN THE SRIPTURES
and they are they which testify of Me" (Jn.5:39)

IGNORANCE OF THE WORD CAUSES SPIRITUAL DEATH
"My people perish for lack of knowledge"

It is only through knowledge that one can know the perfect will of God
But knowledge never operates alone. It is always accompanied by wisdom & spiritual understanding. (Col.1:9)

Nichodemus came to Jesus one night to have some light on the Scriptures.
Nichodemus had knowledge but he did not understood what he knew.

It was Christ that opened the understanding of His desciple, "Then opened He their understanding" (Lk.24:45)
Jesus said that He was going away but wil sendl the Comforter, the Spirit of truth [in the Dispensation of Grace, the Church Age]
"teaching and bringing into Remembrance" the Spoken Word then, now the written Word

Jesus said, I am the door

 

[john832]

Wow... No idea how you got from the thread subject to this, or how it relates to keys! Quite a leap

Nope, no leap at all. The Catholic church claims the Primacy of Peter doctrine, falsely derived from Mat 16:19 and used to empower the church to make such outlandish proclamations. Just an example of how distorted the idea of the keys to the kingdom can become.

 

[gerjozen]

Sry I wanted to correct some mistakes below but I got timed out

 

[mikeuk]

Nope, no leap at all. The Catholic church claims the Primacy of Peter doctrine, falsely derived from Mat 16:19 and used to empower the church to make such outlandish proclamations. Just an example of how distorted the idea of the keys to the kingdom can become.

Your reply was nothing to do with keys. And john 20:23 the solid foundation for confession. Nothing to do with meat.

 

[Willie-T]

What about nonbelievers who have a repentant heart?

Actually, this isn't possible, since "repent" does not mean "feel sorry", or anything like that. A repentant person means a person who has changed their thinking and beliefs about something..... in the cases we discuss, that change of heart and mind is a conscious decision to follow Jesus.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Biblical Repentance


Repentance is a change of mind toward the sins that we walked in that causes us to be enmity (separated) from God.
That change of mind is caused by Godly sorrow about your sins to have you not want to walk in them any more.





2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.