Tired of the Big LIE

[Sirk]

He is the Very Best.

c'mon, post, give us a song!



*gets sour cream from the frig, oatmeal and butterscotch chips from the cupboard,
and hopes she won't become confused!! lol

This made me laugh out loud. . Ya know...it occurred to me that those of us who have a unity in the spirit of Jesus just need to keep it up and ignore the noise. Maybe they will want to come join in our fellowship with each other and Jesus. .

 

[posthuman]

Don't be ignorant. The "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine. Jesus Himself warned us of the great falling away from the faith. I believe in Phillipians 2:12 - "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Hebrews 6 is unequivocal about this; it says from the 4th verse of Hebrew 6 "For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened (saved), and have tasted of the Heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5*And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6*If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The Bible is full of people who were once Saved but fell away from The Faith -

I don't believe in the "Once Saved Always Saved"; I will go even further to say that it is a dangerous doctrine. In Acts 5, we read about Ananias and Sapphira his wife "5*But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2*And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3*But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4*While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

5*Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6*And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him." Lastly but not the least, we all know the story of Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus. Would you say he, Judas was once saved? I do not believe in the "Once Saved Always Saved " doctrine and believe it is a very dangerous doctrine.

how do you presume to judge whether Ananias is given salvation from God or not? what if the Lord chose to chasten Him in this way, both him and us by his example? is it not so that the Lord chastens whom He loves? do you say, 'anyone who is chastened by God has lost salvation' ?

as for falling away -- amen, the chaff is separated from the wheat, and each goes to it's place. what do you think the apostle meant when he said:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.
But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
(1 John 2:19)

do you think the apostle meant to say that those who went out were actually of us, and the Holy Spirit allowed him to make such a misleading typo?

maybe it is just that who men think are 'saved' are not - but the Lord sees the hearts, and He knows who are His sheep, and He has bought and redeemed each of them at great price. i have not read of how He sells them again at the market. maybe He does, do you think? even so, i will rejoice that it pleased Him only to have me on loan for a time - to spend a season in His company satisfies my soul forever.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Go study more Kenneth as the Pharisees trusted in their own abilities and works while putting off a self righteous attitude about the sin of the people around them who knew they need the top doctors health....and as usual you take what is said and NATURALLY ASSUME that WE LIVE IN HORRID SIN ALL DAY....

Sorry but I do study quite often and you are the one who is self righteous not me.
You show that by your constant comments of go study more as if you are better than others, and are always completely right. I have not once seen you admit you were wrong on the context of scripture when multiple people have proved you to be wrong.

And everything I said is in the bible on what the Lord said the Pharisees did, as He said they did not keep the laws perfectly, they used them for personal gain and power, and they even added more heavy burdens for others to do. This is all in the bible, and to say I am wrong would mean you just keep overlooking those scriptures.


Matthew 23:3

therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, ( Teaching of the laws )

but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them ( They did not keep, but defiled the law by actions )


For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. ( Put heavy burdens on others, but does not show love to help others )


And I can go on as the money changers that the Lord chased out of the temple with a whip worked for the Pharisees, making His house a den of thieves. Corruption, greed, and power was their motive, and not the Love of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again with the negativity and false allegations on others who do not agree with you.
If you want others to stop saying what you consider a lie by those who don't believe in OSAS, then we would suggest you do the same and stop with the false allegations back......







No we believe the whole and complete words of God;

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

(47) Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them......


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



( All their good works they did in verse 22 meant nothing, because they also served sin by continuing to give into the lusts of the flesh. )

In order for Him to be your Lord is to walk in love and obedience to Him and His teachings, and not to continue to give into the lust of the flesh everyday. A faith without actions that follows is not a true faith, and to deny the doing part is to deny Him. Same as He said in Matthew 25 if you fail to show love and help to others in need, then you have denied Him as well. And nobody who denies Him He says inherits eternal life.....

Just because you are blind to what you say KENNETH does not mean you didn't say it...I have seen you play down your sin and place it in the messed up or slipped up group...I have seen you indicate that your salvation is based upon your works by the way you word it...I have seen you ignore context and words translated by the Greek and verb tenses that prove you are in error....you have no ability to open your eyes...you regularly twist scriptures and or hang scriptures on your belief to prove points that are not there......so whatever.....

I suggest a literal translation of John 3:16 and BELIEVE what it states in the GREEK........!

and Matthew 7 is to BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT......NOT brag about your abilities to LIVE up to what God requires and or boast about you self righteousness and works......!

 

[dcontroversal]

That is where your assumption is wrong, as you and your working for salvation buddies have only shown your inability to understand the word while twisting it out of context to get your gospel of a different kind which has no power to save.....talk to the hand dude as what you say carries no weight with me...the bible is clear...My ETERNAL salvation, justification and sanctification are based upon Christ and his righteousness before the throne and not mine own righteousness.......!

Sorry but I do study quite often and you are the one who is self righteous not me.
You show that by your constant comments of go study more as if you are better than others, and are always completely right. I have not once seen you admit you were wrong on the context of scripture when multiple people have proved you to be wrong.

And everything I said is in the bible on what the Lord said the Pharisees did, as He said they did not keep the laws perfectly, they used them for personal gain and power, and they even added more heavy burdens for others to do. This is all in the bible, and to say I am wrong would mean you just keep overlooking those scriptures.


Matthew 23:3

therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, ( Teaching of the laws )

but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them ( They did not keep, but defiled the law by actions )


For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. ( Put heavy burdens on others, but does not show love to help others )


And I can go on as the money changers that the Lord chased out of the temple with a whip worked for the Pharisees, making His house a den of thieves. Corruption, greed, and power was their motive, and not the Love of God.

 

[dcontroversal]

how do you presume to judge whether Ananias is given salvation from God or not? what if the Lord chose to chasten Him in this way, both him and us by his example? is it not so that the Lord chastens whom He loves? do you say, 'anyone who is chastened by God has lost salvation' ?

as for falling away -- amen, the chaff is separated from the wheat, and each goes to it's place. what do you think the apostle meant when he said:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.
But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
(1 John 2:19)

do you think the apostle meant to say that those who went out were actually of us, and the Holy Spirit allowed him to make such a misleading typo?

maybe it is just that who men think are 'saved' are not - but the Lord sees the hearts, and He knows who are His sheep, and He has bought and redeemed each of them at great price. i have not read of how He sells them again at the market. maybe He does, do you think? even so, i will rejoice that it pleased Him only to have me on loan for a time - to spend a season in His company satisfies my soul forever.

Amen to this as well.........and so true....!

 

[posthuman]

He is the Very Best.

c'mon, post, give us a song!



*gets sour cream from the frig, oatmeal and butterscotch chips from the cupboard,
and hopes she won't become confused!! lol

♪♪
from the house of bread and battle,
to the raising of the dead.
He stands to feed them -
and from the hand of the LORD they are fed!

my Good Shepherd, He does take
great delight in you, great delight in you!
my Good Shepherd!
♫

[video=youtube_share;gV9iLdjYHoQ]http://youtu.be/gV9iLdjYHoQ[/video]​

 

[kennethcadwell]

how do you presume to judge whether Ananias is given salvation from God or not? what if the Lord chose to chasten Him in this way, both him and us by his example? is it not so that the Lord chastens whom He loves? do you say, 'anyone who is chastened by God has lost salvation' ?

as for falling away -- amen, the chaff is separated from the wheat, and each goes to it's place. what do you think the apostle meant when he said:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.
But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
(1 John 2:19)

do you think the apostle meant to say that those who went out were actually of us, and the Holy Spirit allowed him to make such a misleading typo?

maybe it is just that who men think are 'saved' are not - but the Lord sees the hearts, and He knows who are His sheep, and He has bought and redeemed each of them at great price. i have not read of how He sells them again at the market. maybe He does, do you think? even so, i will rejoice that it pleased Him only to have me on loan for a time - to spend a season in His company satisfies my soul forever.

That scripture in 1 John 2:19 is about those who are a form of the antichrist, or have the spirit of antichrist in them. Meaning their soul purpose was to come in and corrupt, twist, and pervert the word and lead others astray as you can see with the previous verse 18.

This does not apply to those who have fallen away do to hardships (trials and tribulations), and those who were deceived by false teaching/deception such as the Galatians.


Holy Spirit talking here;


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



The OSAS doctrine will try and tell you one of two things that these people were never saved to begin with, or still continued to keep salvation...... But Paul gives us the answer at the end of this chapter of what happens to those who fall away for not persisting in the faith by falling away to deceptions, false teaching, and hardships;

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


Those who do not continue in the doctrine of salvation through the Lord will not be saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

That scripture in 1 John 2:19 is about those who are a form of the antichrist, or have the spirit of antichrist in them. Meaning their soul purpose was to come in and corrupt, twist, and pervert the word and lead others astray as you can see with the previous verse 18.

This does not apply to those who have fallen away do to hardships (trials and tribulations), and those who were deceived by false teaching/deception such as the Galatians.


Holy Spirit talking here;


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



The OSAS doctrine will try and tell you one of two things that these people were never saved to begin with, or still continued to keep salvation...... But Paul gives us the answer at the end of this chapter of what happens to those who fall away for not persisting in the faith by falling away to deceptions, false teaching, and hardships;

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


Those who do not continue in the doctrine of salvation through the Lord will not be saved.

More works for salvation heresy......

You do understand that if you are not for Christ you are AGAINST CHRIST (anti-Christ)

and if you go out from among us that you were NEVER OF US<----GOD's team/family or Satan's team/family

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is where your assumption is wrong, as you and your working for salvation buddies have only shown your inability to understand the word while twisting it out of context to get your gospel of a different kind which has no power to save.....talk to the hand dude as what you say carries no weight with me...the bible is clear...My ETERNAL salvation, justification and sanctification are based upon Christ and his righteousness before the throne and not mine own righteousness.......!

It is based on Christ as there is no debate about that, but what you keep debating with is that the bible clearly says over and over again that if your actions do not show what the bible describes as a true born again believers faith. Then that person does not have the Lord in them, and are not born again. Nowhere does the bible say you can continue to live and walk the same way you walked before you were saved, and born again. We are told to put off and stop walking as our former self walked, and continuing to walk in sin everyday is not putting off your former self.....
We are trying to help you and others with His word, because not one scripture says you can continue to walk the same as you once did.



[h=1]Ephesians 4:17-24[/h][h=3]The New Man[/h]17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[a] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

 

[posthuman]

it's the same question in Timothy as it is in John -- those that depart from Him, were they of Him? or "crept in unawares" ?
are any that the Father gave to Him lost from out of His hand? i don't think this is easy to dismiss.

when Simon was chastised by Paul for separating himself to eat with the Jews, had the apostle 'lost his salvation' ? when he was given the vision three times before men came to bring him to Cornelius, was Peter "lost" until the third vision? even until the spirit fell on those people at Cornelius's house, when he finally remembered what Christ had said about His baptism?
i'm afraid to make that judgement or any one like it. will just sit where i am hoping for His mercy and confessing always that i need it.

if i don't get to eat His cookies, i will say that i am glad to have smelled them

 

[Sirk]

That is where your assumption is wrong, as you and your working for salvation buddies have only shown your inability to understand the word while twisting it out of context to get your gospel of a different kind which has no power to save.....talk to the hand dude as what you say carries no weight with me...the bible is clear...My ETERNAL salvation, justification and sanctification are based upon Christ and his righteousness before the throne and not mine own righteousness.......!

in other words....get behind me satan.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is based on Christ as there is no debate about that, but what you keep debating with is that the bible clearly says over and over again that if your actions do not show what the bible describes as a true born again believers faith. Then that person does not have the Lord in them, and are not born again. Nowhere does the bible say you can continue to live and walk the same way you walked before you were saved, and born again. We are told to put off and stop walking as our former self walked, and continuing to walk in sin everyday is not putting off your former self.....
We are trying to help you and others with His word, because not one scripture says you can continue to walk the same as you once did.



Ephesians 4:17-24

The New Man

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[a] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

No where have I said or implied the above bolded in your quote.......more fluff, huff and puff from you.....I see you still do not understand the reasoning behind the OP.......

 

[posthuman]

either way, by fear or for love --

And now, dear children, continue in him,
so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
(1 John 2:28)

what we ought to do is clear

 

[kennethcadwell]

More works for salvation heresy......

You do understand that if you are not for Christ you are AGAINST CHRIST (anti-Christ)

and if you go out from among us that you were NEVER OF US<----GOD's team/family or Satan's team/family

This is not heresy teaching, and if you believe it is then you are saying the Holy Spirit and the Apostle Paul were both heretics. Because this exactly what Paul is saying from the Holy Spirit who is speaking through him, that if somebody does not continue in the faith they will not end up with salvation/eternal life. You can deny the Holy Spirit and Paul's words if you like, but I will not.

I have another question for if you do not thing that you are not self righteous, or to see if you still think you are always right; You have been proven wrong on Matthew 10:22 and Hebrews 10:26-31 by multiple people because you stated neither one has to do with salvation/eternal life, which is false teaching.

Do you still claim that both these passages are not about salvation/eternal life, or do you admit you were wrong ?

 

[kennethcadwell]

No where have I said or implied the above bolded in your quote.......more fluff, huff and puff from you.....I see you still do not understand the reasoning behind the OP.......

By making the statement that we all sin everyday is saying that.
If you are still sinning every single day then you are still walking the same as your former self. That is the point and context of Ephesians 4:17-24. Either you sin everyday, or through the Holy Spirit you learn to put off and gain self control over sins. You can not have it both ways !!!

 

[Sirk]

No where have I said or implied the above bolded in your quote.......more fluff, huff and puff from you.....I see you still do not understand the reasoning behind the OP.......

Clang clang, crash crash.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just look at the apostle's lives. They lived their lives in self sacrifice and service to the Lord. Did some of them commit sins after being a believer? Yes. But they did not live a self centered or sinful life, though. Therein lies the difference.

The difference was.

they were born by God, and empowered by God.

where as those who did not live as they did were not born of God, and had no power to sacrifice.

Thats the part your missing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I am understanding you correctly, why you think true believers can get away with sinning habitually as a way of life with the thinking they are saved is foreign to me and foreign to Scripture.

because a true believer can not live a habitual sinful life, because he has been born of God.

John said it, you have been shown it over and over again, Yet you refuse to listen to John, thus you refuse to listen to God. Since it was God who inspired him to write those words.

 

[kennethcadwell]

it's the same question in Timothy as it is in John -- those that depart from Him, were they of Him? or "crept in unawares" ?
are any that the Father gave to Him lost from out of His hand? i don't think this is easy to dismiss.

when Simon was chastised by Paul for separating himself to eat with the Jews, had the apostle 'lost his salvation' ? when he was given the vision three times before men came to bring him to Cornelius, was Peter "lost" until the third vision? even until the spirit fell on those people at Cornelius's house, when he finally remembered what Christ had said about His baptism?
i'm afraid to make that judgement or any one like it. will just sit where i am hoping for His mercy and confessing always that i need it.

if i don't get to eat His cookies, i will say that i am glad to have smelled them

Well we can answer that by going back to Galatians once again, as Paul shows that they did walk in the faith a one point. By stating his amazement that they turned away from the Lord's gospel to another false gospel in Galatians 1:6. Paul does not say here they were never in Christ, but says they once walked properly in Christ tell false teaching came in and drew them away. Paul follows up that if they continued in that false teaching Christ remission for their sin has become of no effect to them, and they have fallen and no longer under God's grace.