Can a Christian be sinless, perfect?
- Thread starter gerjozen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
we are subject to sin as long as we are ii the flesh but if we hold fast to YHWH and His Branch, He can begin to defeat sin in our lives, but if we take our eyes off Him we will "sink in the water". I have experienced both.
Rom 7
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sinstill live in it?"
John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
the second one looks away from Him, they will fail, we are such simple people so easily distracted by the world, we must hold fast to Him.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
the second one looks away from Him, they will fail, we are such simple people so easily distracted by the world, we must hold fast to Him.
Rom 7
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sinstill live in it?"
John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
the second one looks away from Him, they will fail, we are such simple people so easily distracted by the world, we must hold fast to Him.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."
the second one looks away from Him, they will fail, we are such simple people so easily distracted by the world, we must hold fast to Him.
Only on the internet-never in the flesh have I come across Christians who either believe they have attained to, or can be perfect in the flesh.
What hope is there for us?
For by one sacrifice he made PERFECT FOREVER those who are BEING made Holy Heb 10:14
If you are BEING made Holy you are not perfect in the flesh, but your father in Heaven sees you as perfect for He sees the sacrifice His Son made for you at Calvary, not your imperfections
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
why is John writing these things? "that ye also may have fellowship with us"
question, do they have fellowship with them? not according to this verse. The very reason John is writing these things is so that they may have fellowship with us.
1Jn 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
now the message is being announced to them, seems they have not had this message yet. Then the texts that so many use out of context.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
John explains how in order to have our sins forgiven we must confess them. Can a person who says they have not sinned or have no sin confess their sin?
no, thus in order to have forgiveness one must admit they are a sinner.
why is John writing these things? "that ye also may have fellowship with us"
question, do they have fellowship with them? not according to this verse. The very reason John is writing these things is so that they may have fellowship with us.
1Jn 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
now the message is being announced to them, seems they have not had this message yet. Then the texts that so many use out of context.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
John explains how in order to have our sins forgiven we must confess them. Can a person who says they have not sinned or have no sin confess their sin?
no, thus in order to have forgiveness one must admit they are a sinner.
friend This is the work of God not of man. Do you think Jesus gave instruction that could not be followed?
It seems to me that you are focused on what we can do. I am more focused on what God can do.
as to sin int he flesh as aposed to the spirit I don't bye it sorry. If you sin in the flesh then you sin full stop.
put do death the deeds of the flesh in Christ.
Rom_8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
The flesh has no power friend if it is dead in Christ.
It seems to me that you are focused on what we can do. I am more focused on what God can do.
as to sin int he flesh as aposed to the spirit I don't bye it sorry. If you sin in the flesh then you sin full stop.
put do death the deeds of the flesh in Christ.
Rom_8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
The flesh has no power friend if it is dead in Christ.
Ty for your response, I'll get back to this your post later when I have more time. Just want to share shortly that I have met not so few SDAs and none of them (inclusive teachers and elders) have expressed a view such as the one you hold to on this matter. Maybe those are your personal convictions? That said, whatever is spoken of someone must be tested with scripture. Laters.
"only on the internet"
"never in person"
is a big, big, BIG problem today. for little children seeking God's Kingdom, they cannot find it
because they have never met a real born again, ekklesia, faithful to yahweh in yahshua by grace through
faith person or even more rare a group of ekklesia.
so for all the little children out there anywhere and everywhere seeking God's Kingdom,
realize that you might well never have met , or met and realized you met, ekklesia.
oh, billions of people have met "in name only" "christians" (remember the antichrist teaches and pushes
and much of the world mostly
believe roman rcc churches actually represent "christianity" even though they are all practically antichrist)
that is how far the world has fallen - believing the liar opposed to Christ is Christ, and subsequently they
believe the true believers are (as they said of yahshua the savior) serving demons.... .... ....
"never in person"
is a big, big, BIG problem today. for little children seeking God's Kingdom, they cannot find it
because they have never met a real born again, ekklesia, faithful to yahweh in yahshua by grace through
faith person or even more rare a group of ekklesia.
so for all the little children out there anywhere and everywhere seeking God's Kingdom,
realize that you might well never have met , or met and realized you met, ekklesia.
oh, billions of people have met "in name only" "christians" (remember the antichrist teaches and pushes
and much of the world mostly
believe roman rcc churches actually represent "christianity" even though they are all practically antichrist)
that is how far the world has fallen - believing the liar opposed to Christ is Christ, and subsequently they
believe the true believers are (as they said of yahshua the savior) serving demons.... .... ....
bro we are subject to the law of sin while in this flesh(meaning if you sin the law is there to condemn you)...we are not subject to sin itself...if you follow after the Spirit you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh....it is that simple... if you sin know for sure that you were already drawn away from Christ...you cannot sin while you are abiding in Christ...
I can only repeat, anyone who believes they are, or can be completely sinless on this earth does not understand what the law of God fully demands. I know sda members also, none have told me they are, or expect to be sinless while they walk this earth. Is this your own personal view, or the official view of the sdas church also?
that is a position you put to a believer for them to deny God have given us all things that pertain to godliness....that we might be partakers of the divine nature....after we have escaped the pollutions of this world... if you abide in Christ He keeps you perfect by cleansing you from sins...God wants to see you walking as Christ walked.... [h=1]2 Peter 1:3-5King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
and you sin in the flesh because you follow the flesh... can you show anything that is impossible for one following after the Spirit in those chapters??? when you have this hope.....
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.