What exactly is "the Gospel"?

[Sophia]

So we are saved no matter what?

If "we" refers to those who have faith in Christ, then yes.
If "no matter what" refers to people claiming to have faith, and then living faithlessly, then no.

We are saved through the Vine, and will bear fruit.
Those who do not bear fruit will be told "I never knew you", because they never were truly in the Vine.
An apple tree bears apples, not oranges.
A person is eternally in Christ, or eternally outside of Christ.
There is only one rebirth available, and that transformation is not shallow or subject to the flesh in any way, as it is of Spirit.

 

[WheresEnoch]

If "we" refers to those who have faith in Christ, then yes.
If "no matter what" refers to people claiming to have faith, and then living faithlessly, then no.

We are saved through the Vine, and will bear fruit.
Those who do not bear fruit will be told "I never knew you", because they never were truly in the Vine.
An apple tree bears apples, not oranges.
A person is eternally in Christ, or eternally outside of Christ.
There is only one rebirth available, and that transformation is not shallow or subject to the flesh in any way, as it is of Spirit.

That makes sense, if you were witnessing to someone you randomly met. What would you ask them to do?
A sinner's prayer? Would you tell them not to sin? Is it even possible to witness to people in a short amount of time?

 

[michael56]

The Clear and Simple Gospel

Part 1:What is the Gospel?
1. Romans 1:16 - the Gospel is the power of God for salvation to all who believe.
2. Eph 1:13/14 - the Gospel is the Word of Truth, which upon believing, seals us for redemption, and guarantees an eternal inheritance.
3. Col 1:22/23 - the Gospel reconciles us to God through Christ's bodily death, so we can be presented as holy in God's sight.

Together these verses show the Gospel as: the perfect life, atoning death, and glorious resurrection of Jesus - which is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes.

But Scripture is even more clear about exactly what the Gospel is: 1 Cor 15:1-8
v1 Gospel declared, received, held to = saved.
v2 hold to the Gospel for salvation (let's not switch topic to "loss of Salvation")
v3 we deliver (preach) what we receive: the Gospel
- and here it is in this verse: Christ died for our sins!
v4 Christ was buried (proof of His death), and rose again!
v5-8 He was seen afterwards! (evidence of His Resurrection)

The simple Gospel is: Christ died for our sins, and rose from the dead.
^ this is the Good News that saves!
And we know that this simple Gospel is all we need to preach to the unsaved, and all we should preach to the unsaved: 1 Cor 2:2

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I like this portion of scripture in answer to your question:

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Rom 3:21-31

 

[michael56]

If "we" refers to those who have faith in Christ, then yes.
If "no matter what" refers to people claiming to have faith, and then living faithlessly, then no.

QUOTE]

How would you interpret the following Sophia:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

2Tim2:11-13

 

[WheresEnoch]

If "we" refers to those who have faith in Christ, then yes.
If "no matter what" refers to people claiming to have faith, and then living faithlessly, then no.

We are saved through the Vine, and will bear fruit.
Those who do not bear fruit will be told "I never knew you", because they never were truly in the Vine.
An apple tree bears apples, not oranges.
A person is eternally in Christ, or eternally outside of Christ.
There is only one rebirth available, and that transformation is not shallow or subject to the flesh in any way, as it is of Spirit.

Ah, that was post 666 for you!

 

[Sophia]

That makes sense, if you were witnessing to someone you randomly met. What would you ask them to do?
A sinner's prayer? Would you tell them not to sin? Is it even possible to witness to people in a short amount of time?

The "do" is believe.
I would ask them if they wanted to pray, but not as if a prayer can save.
It is possible to witness to someone briefly, as it is the hearing if the Word that brings faith to the elect,
but being a living witness (a living testimony of God's grace and mercy) is the most powerful witness tool according to the teachings of Jesus and the book of Revelation.

 

[Sophia]

If "we" refers to those who have faith in Christ, then yes.
If "no matter what" refers to people claiming to have faith, and then living faithlessly, then no.

QUOTE]

How would you interpret the following Sophia:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

2Tim2:11-13

What is it that you propose that verse means,
as from what I see, it clearly teaches the same as all other Scriptures.

Without Him working though us, we are faithless and fallen, but through Him we remain faithful,
because He is in us, and He is faithful.

 

[Angela53510]

Of all things, I was prayerful and careful to avoid distorting the Truth. Please, if you feel I have done so, correct me.
I am trying to train for evangelism, and want to be able to share the clear and accurate Gospel with the lost.
Do not let me share this with unbelievers if there are errors or distortions. I want to further and spread the Gospel, not harm it.

As I read your three initial posts, my thought was you should become an evangelist! I do agree very much with your assessment of the gospel, but I was also considering that you need to follow up with discipleship. Perhaps another post about that, and how you would implement it into the lives of people who believe the gospel?

 

[michael56]

What is it that you propose that verse means,
as from what I see, it clearly teaches the same as all other Scriptures.

Without Him working though us, we are faithless and fallen, but through Him we remain faithful,
because He is in us, and He is faithful.

Well it clearly says is we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself. He will only disown us if we disown him.

For me it means, if you are truly born again of the Holy Spirit you are secure with Jesus, unless you disown him. But though we are born again in the heart and mind, we are not in the flesh. It is possible for a born again person to be unfaithful. When they are, is their salvation in question?
I believe when a truly born again person is faithless, they suffer much unhappiness, they cannot succeed in what they do, they can have no rest, no peace until they come before their Father in Heaven and evermore bow the knee. This MUST be the case for someone truly born of the Spirit, for the law on their heart will give them no rest or peace until they bow the knee.
Being born again is life changing. You can no longer sin in ignorance, or sin without conscience, and that conscience will tear you apart the longer you are faithless and follow after the flesh

 

[WheresEnoch]

The "do" is believe.
I would ask them if they wanted to pray, but not as if a prayer can save.
It is possible to witness to someone briefly, as it is the hearing if the Word that brings faith to the elect,
but being a living witness (a living testimony of God's grace and mercy) is the most powerful witness tool according to the teachings of Jesus and the book of Revelation.

That makes sense too. Do you think it is presumptuous to consider yourself one of the Saints?

 

[Sophia]

As I read your three initial posts, my thought was you should become an evangelist! I do agree very much with your assessment of the gospel, but I was also considering that you need to follow up with discipleship. Perhaps another post about that, and how you would implement it into the lives of people who believe the gospel?

Discipleship is even more personal than "personal evangelism", as we see Christ's example of speaking to the crowds,
and then drawing back to explain more clearly to the 12.

An important thing is to connect them to a local body of Believers (which more often than not will be yourself and the place you gather with other Believers).
Another is to impress the need of confession of sins, and turning from carnal desires and unto spiritual desires.
Primarily, I would impress upon them the need of communication with their Saviour, through reading the Bible and prayer,
and the need to live out the new calling that they have received.

 

[WheresEnoch]

Discipleship is even more personal than "personal evangelism", as we see Christ's example of speaking to the crowds,
and then drawing back to explain more clearly to the 12.

An important thing is to connect them to a local body of Believers (which more often than not will be yourself and the place you gather with other Believers).
Another is to impress the need of confession of sins, and turning from carnal desires and unto spiritual desires.
Primarily, I would impress upon them the need of communication with their Saviour, through reading the Bible and prayer,
and the need to live out the new calling that they have received.

How much do you read the Bible and pray usually?

 

[Sophia]

Well it clearly says is we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself. He will only disown us if we disown him.

For me it means, if you are truly born again of the Holy Spirit you are secure with Jesus, unless you disown him. But though we are born again in the heart and mind, we are not in the flesh. It is possible for a born again person to be unfaithful. When they are, is their salvation in question?
I believe when a truly born again person is faithless, they suffer much unhappiness, they cannot succeed in what they do, they can have no rest, no peace until they come before their Father in Heaven and evermore bow the knee. This MUST be the case for someone truly born of the Spirit, for the law on their heart will give them no rest or peace until they bow the knee.
Being born again is life changing. You can no longer sin in ignorance, or sin without conscience, and that conscience will tear you apart the longer you are faithless and follow after the flesh

Being faithless and having no faith are the same thing. Without Christ, we have no faith.
But if we have Christ, then we are not faithless, and faith produces works of Faith.
When we are acting faithless, we lose out on blessings,
but if we are truly without faith, then we have disowned Him, and are not of Him.
I am not sure there is an example of someone who was saved and yet never had fruit. Even the thief on the cross bore fruit of Faith when he defended Christ.

 

[michael56]

Being faithless and having no faith are the same thing. Without Christ, we have no faith.
But if we have Christ, then we are not faithless, and faith produces works of Faith.
When we are acting faithless, we lose out on blessings,
but if we are truly without faith, then we have disowned Him, and are not of Him.
I am not sure there is an example of someone who was saved and yet never had fruit. Even the thief on the cross bore fruit of Faith when he defended Christ.

So why in your view does Paul say:

If we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself

 

[Sophia]

How much do you read the Bible and pray usually?

Daily reading, and constant prayer.
There is need for even more.

 

[Sophia]

So why in your view does Paul say:

If we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown himself

I think you might be reading into it more than is present. Can a Believer be without faith?
No.
Can a Believer act in a faithless manner?
Yes.

 

[michael56]

How much do you read the Bible and pray usually?

In most churches I have belonged to they have suggested one hour of prayer and bible reading a day is advisable. More is fine if the person wants to

 

[michael56]

I think you might be reading into it more than is present. Can a Believer be without faith?
No.
Can a Believer act in a faithless manner?
Yes.

As you have worded it, I completely agree.

 

[Sophia]

That makes sense too. Do you think it is presumptuous to consider yourself one of the Saints?

If you know Him, then you have no fear of not being known by Him.
If you pretend to know Him, then yes it would be presumptuous.

 

[Sophia]

As you have worded it, I completely agree.

Then maybe I was reading into your wording too much. Lol.