Nephilim

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Zmouth said:
When did Enoch write his book? And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Gen 5:24
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Regardless of who wrote it.....the bible makes at least 6 references to Enoch and Jasher....ALL I can say is that who ever wrote it was very intelligent....I have read it, and in the process discovered numerous items of interest that could not have been understood without some sort of insight that is above human reasoning......that is not to say that I teach out of it, but JUDE does QUOTE it directly!
 
Man was genetically perfect at creation and our DNA has progressively degraded since then. Incest generally leads to a decreased biological fitness of a population (called inbreeding depression), which is its ability to survive and reproduce.

Not legendary "men of renown" super status
 
The word Nephilim appears only two times in the word of God:

  1. Gen6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
  2. Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
The word of God is perfect without mistakes and we can accept that. If there are mistakes with our interpretations it is because of human error. God and His word are perfect.

If God explains giants or physical large humans in Numbers 13, it will be the same in Genesis 6. How did these giants came about? Again, let’s use the word of God as reference and not our opinions:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrha? Fornication and going after strange flesh! What will be starange flesh for an angel? Humans, thus giants were born. Let us trust the word of God to explain the word of God.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
The word Nephilim appears only two times in the word of God:

  1. Gen6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
  2. Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
The word of God is perfect without mistakes and we can accept that. If there are mistakes with our interpretations it is because of human error. God and His word are perfect.

If God explains giants or physical large humans in Numbers 13, it will be the same in Genesis 6. How did these giants came about? Again, let’s use the word of God as reference and not our opinions:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrha? Fornication and going after strange flesh! What will be starange flesh for an angel? Humans, thus giants were born. Let us trust the word of God to explain the word of God.
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Yes, and we know the "seed" is spiritual (like the serpents seed) because the Lord destroyed all flesh in the flood.....but there were giants also after the flood.....so the seed was spiritual.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Psalm 78:49
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Revelation 12:9[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


1 Corinthians 11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

These evil angels(spirits) are still around today coming "in unto woman" but not in a natural way, just as the giants of today are the "great men" of the earth, men of renown and of high status in society (not physical stature.)
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
These evil angels(spirits) are still around today coming "in unto woman" but not in a natural way, just as the giants of today are the "great men" of the earth, men of renown and of high status in society (not physical stature.)
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If I may ask you something. Why are there evil spirits amongst us if Jude tells us they are bound with chains? Could it be that some of the spirits (the ones having intercourse with the females) were bound and the rest are still free to torment us? Just a question...

Another question; Genesis 6:4 "and they bare children to them" was this only spiritual children or can we accept the word of God that there was children born from them?
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
If I may ask you something. Why are there evil spirits amongst us if Jude tells us they are bound with chains? Could it be that some of the spirits (the ones having intercourse with the females) were bound and the rest are still free to torment us? Just a question...

Another question; Genesis 6:4 "and they bare children to them" was this only spiritual children or can we accept the word of God that there was children born from them?
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Some were bound with chains as written, but notice when Satan was cast out (at the time of Jesus ) more evil angels were cast out with him in Revelation 12:9[SUP] "[/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

And yes the first offspring of those angels were physical giants as written....but the Lord often shows things in a natural way first to give us insight into the spiritual things that were to come in the last days.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
Some were bound with chains as written, but notice when Satan was cast out (at the time of Jesus ) more evil angels were cast out with him in Revelation 12:9[SUP] "[/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

And yes the first offspring of those angels were physical giants as written....but the Lord often shows things in a natural way first to give us insight into the spiritual things that were to come in the last days.
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So we actually agree that there was giants (nephilim) :)
 
Prophecy of the seed of Messiah.
Genesis 3
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[e] and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”


Jesus traced back to Seth.
Luke 3:38
the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.




Genesis 4:17-24 lists the line of Cain.
Genesis 5 lists the line of Seth, the one who traces to Messiah.

The line of Seth mentions two holy followers of God, Enoch 5:21-24 and Noah 5:32.

Seth's line appears to be set up as Godly, something special. I mean Enoch, Noah, and leading to Jesus.

Then we come to Genesis 6.

 6 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in[a] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim[b] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.




Which has us wondering who the sons of God and daughters of men are.

Since this is after two lines, one that is super Godly, and another that is from the first recorded murderer, it may follow that the sons of God are those from the holy line that leads to Messiah, as the daughters of men are from the line that comes from the first murderer.

So it may not have been angels having relations with humans, rather it was the Godly line having relations with the ungodly line.
And what do we see after this?

 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Informed speculationcan be fun at times but seldom yields information.Perhaps we might do better to be instructed by Scripture.The notion of godly men as God's children is a New Testament concept NOT consistent with Hebrew idiom. The fact that a straightforward interpretation of Scripture makes us uncomfortable does not preclude its being correct.
 
Kaycie said:
The sons of God are human. I am a child of God. Angels do not marry nor are they given in marriage. Mark 12:25
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And just to add to this, animals cannot reproduce outside their kind. Man cannot reproduce outside of his kind, so why would we think women could reproduce with angels?
 
MarcR said:
In common usage benay Eloheym, which we translate sons of God, is an idiomatic reference to angels.
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It is also used to refer to human judges.

Exodus 22, NASB
8 "If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house shall appear before the judges, to determine whether he laid his hands on his neighbor's property.
9 "For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, 'This is it,' the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor." ​

All the occurrences of the word "judges" there are the Hebrew ~yhla ('elohiym) and it is used once in the Bible as a rendering "rulers" -- while the words used in Genesis 6:2, 4 are !b ~yhla. -- ben 'elohiym.The phrase does not appear again in the Old Testament until Job, when it is used three times to clearly refer to angels meeting at the throne of God in heaven. Then it is never used again. So I respect your input, Marc, but I don't think five usages of b ~yhla constitute a rule of thumb, given there are many usages of ~yhla by itself in referring to men.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrha? Fornication and going after strange flesh! What will be starange flesh for an angel? Humans, thus giants were born. Let us trust the word of God to explain the word of God.
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That is also the sin of women in Romans 2:26. That is not about women having sexual relations with other women. It is about women have sexual relations with fallen angels.
 
We know from Scripture that angels (including fallen angels) can transform themselves to appear as men.
Any attempt to limit that transformation regarding select parts of the anatomy are pure speculation.
We also know that fallen angels are known to inhabit, control, and alter the character of men.

It is a FACT that the word Neplilim is the plural of the word meaning fallen.

That condition was no less true of Seth's line than of Cain's if speaking of being fallen from the pristine nature of the image of God is being spoken of. However that is also a New Testament usage and is foreign to Hebrew idiom and usage.

The concept of fallen from heaven is frequently encountered in Hebrew.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
Yes, and we know the "seed" is spiritual (like the serpents seed) because the Lord destroyed all flesh in the flood.....but there were giants also after the flood.....so the seed was spiritual.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Psalm 78:49
He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Revelation 12:9[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


1 Corinthians 11:10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

These evil angels(spirits) are still around today coming "in unto woman" but not in a natural way, just as the giants of today are the "great men" of the earth, men of renown and of high status in society (not physical stature.)
Click to expand...

I just read the book of Enoch today for the first time and found it very interesting. But this part here in the book of Enoch seems to confirm what I suspected was true all along, concerning these giants now being "evil spirits". Let's read from the book of Enoch where Enoch is speaking of the angels who left their first estate, and they asked Enoch to pray for them to God. The angels are shown as the "Watchers" .....

Chapter 15
1Then addressing me, He spoke and said, Hear, neither be afraid, O righteous Enoch, you scribe of righteousness: approach hither, and hear my voice. Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent you to pray for them, You ought to pray for men, and not men for you.
2Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring? (23)

(23) An impious offspring. Literally, "giants" (Charles, p. 82; Knibb, p. 101).

3You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.
4These however die and perish.
5Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.
6But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.
7Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.
8Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy Watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits shall they be upon earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth. (24)

(24) Note the many implications of vss. 3-8 regarding the progeny of evil spirits.

9The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, (25) which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, content, and bruise upon earth.
(25) The Greek word for "clouds" here, nephelas, may disguise a more ancient reading, Napheleim (Nephilim).
10They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall not (26) rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction."

After reading that, it just confirmed in me what the Holy Spirit was showing me all along, the giants remain today but in spirit form (evil spirits) working in the great men of the earth.
 
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GandalfTheWhite said:
If I may ask you something. Why are there evil spirits amongst us if Jude tells us they are bound with chains? Could it be that some of the spirits (the ones having intercourse with the females) were bound and the rest are still free to torment us? Just a question.?
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satan and his followers (demons) are indeed bound, but they are bound to the vicinity of the Earth. That is to say, if they are bound with chains, those chains can reach the moon but no farther. satans chains as you say, can reach to any length where humans can go. There are no demons on an uninhabited island, but as soon as one human steps there, satan can be there as well. Mars has no demons, but let one human step there, and satan can go there as well.

^i^ Responding to Post #25
 
gerjozen said:
Did the angels really had sex with women and produced the Nephilim?
How is it possible that spirits can have intercourse with carnal?
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It says in the book of Jasher that the son of God were Enoch's disciples. I doesn't see any reason why they subtracted this from being apart of the Bible.

1 And Enoch lived sixty-five years and he begat Methuselah; and Enoch walked with God after having begot Methuselah, and he served the Lord, and despised the evil ways of men.
2 And the soul of Enoch was wrapped up in the instruction of the Lord, in knowledge and in understanding; and he wisely retired from the sons of men, and secreted himself from them for many days.
3 And it was at the expiration of many years, whilst he was serving the Lord, and praying before him in his house, that an angel of the Lord called to him from Heaven, and he said, Here am I.
4 And he said, Rise, go forth from thy house and from the place where thou dost hide thyself, and appear to the sons of men, in order that thou mayest teach them the way in which they should go and the work which they must accomplish to enter in the ways of God.
5 And Enoch rose up according to the word of the Lord, and went forth from his house, from his place and from the chamber in which he was concealed; and he went to the sons of men and taught them the ways of the Lord, and at that time assembled the sons of men and acquainted them with the instruction of the Lord.
6 And he ordered it to be proclaimed in all places where the sons of men dwelt, saying, Where is the man who wishes to know the ways of the Lord and good works? let him come to Enoch.
7 And all the sons of men then assembled to him, for all who desired this thing went to Enoch, and Enoch reigned over the sons of men according to the word of the Lord, and they came and bowed to him and they heard his word.
8 And the spirit of God was upon Enoch, and he taught all his men the wisdom of God and his ways, and the sons of men served the Lord all the days of Enoch, and they came to hear his wisdom.
9 And all the kings of the sons of men, both first and last, together with their princes and judges, came to Enoch when they heard of his wisdom, and they bowed down to him, and they also required of Enoch to reign over them, to which he consented.
10 And they assembled in all, one hundred and thirty kings and princes, and they made Enoch king over them and they were all under his power and command.
11 And Enoch taught them wisdom, knowledge, and the ways of the Lord; and he made peace amongst them, and peace was throughout the earth during the life of Enoch.
12 And Enoch reigned over the sons of men two hundred and forty-three years, and he did justice and righteousness with all his people, and he led them in the ways of the Lord.

4 But in the latter days of Methuselah, the sons of men turned from the Lord, they corrupted the earth, they robbed and plundered each other, and they rebelled against God and they transgressed, and they corrupted their ways, and would not hearken to the voice of Methuselah, but rebelled against him.

18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other (GMO), in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

20 And all men who walked in the ways of the Lord, died in those days, before the Lord brought the evil upon man which he had declared, for this was from the Lord, that they should not see the evil which the Lord spoke of concerning the sons of men.

6 And after the lapse of many years, in the four hundred and eightieth year of the life of Noah, when all those men, who followed the Lord had died away from amongst the sons of men, and only Methuselah was then left, God said unto Noah and Methuselah, saying, Book of Jasher, Chapter 3


 
InSpiritInTruth said:
I just read the book of Enoch today for the first time and found it very interesting. But this part here in the book of Enoch seems to confirm what I suspected was true all along, concerning these giants now being "evil spirits". Let's read from the book of Enoch where Enoch is speaking of the angels who left their first estate, and they asked Enoch to pray for them to God. The angels are shown as the "Watchers" .....

Chapter 15
1Then addressing me, He spoke and said, Hear, neither be afraid, O righteous Enoch, you scribe of righteousness: approach hither, and hear my voice. Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent you to pray for them, You ought to pray for men, and not men for you.
2Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring? (23)

(23) An impious offspring. Literally, "giants" (Charles, p. 82; Knibb, p. 101).

3You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.
4These however die and perish.
5Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.
6But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.
7Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.
8Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy Watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits shall they be upon earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born on earth. (24)

(24) Note the many implications of vss. 3-8 regarding the progeny of evil spirits.

9The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, (25) which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, content, and bruise upon earth.
(25) The Greek word for "clouds" here, nephelas, may disguise a more ancient reading, Napheleim (Nephilim).
10They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall not (26) rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction."

After reading that, it just confirmed in me what the Holy Spirit was showing me all along, the giants remain today but in spirit form (evil spirits) working in the great men of the earth.
Click to expand...


Too cool you finally got around to it eh?

Some parts of that book were pretty confiming to me, whereas other parts of it gave me the creeps
 
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