Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

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gotime

Senior Member
#901
Mar 3, 2011
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#901
see sin is the problem Jesus came to fix. Sin was in the world before the law. the law came and simply pointed it out so that there is no excuse.

But you can't simply take the law away to fix the problem for if that is so then God made the problem by giving it in the first place.

So then it is sin that Jesus came to get rid of.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#902
Mar 3, 2011
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#902
michael56 said:
So a Christian is not under the law as long as they do not break the law, please explain
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no a Christian is not under the law when they accept by faith Jesus which results in them not breaking the law.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#903
Mar 3, 2011
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#903
This is not hard, If I have faith in Jesus my old nature will die and Christ will live in me and Christ does not break the law. simple
 
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michael56

Banned
#904
Feb 5, 2015
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gotime said:
no a Christian is not under the law when they accept by faith Jesus which results in them not breaking the law.
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Well Kenneth admits he breaks the law, I admit also I do not perfectly obey the law, are we therefore under a law of righteousness and condemned?
 
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michael56

Banned
#905
Feb 5, 2015
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gotime said:
see sin is the problem Jesus came to fix. Sin was in the world before the law. the law came and simply pointed it out so that there is no excuse.

But you can't simply take the law away to fix the problem for if that is so then God made the problem by giving it in the first place.

So then it is sin that Jesus came to get rid of.
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Who is taking the law away God desires you to keep. The penalty for breaking it is removed from the Christian, the law God desires you to keep was transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#906
#906
michael56 said:
It is good you now admit you do sin, rather than saying we automatically obey all we are required to obey

You see, when we infer we obey all we are asked to, we crush sincere, naïve people who may believe our words. We are then breaking the ninth commandment and crushing others. This is not acting in love to our fellow man nor I would suggest loving God as we should. And the whole law hangs on those two commandments.

Paul continually states the Christian DOES NOT have a righteousness before God of obedience to the law. That is not possible if Christ only died at Calvary for the sins committed before you come to him. That is unarguable, but you seem to want to debate the point further. Either you genuinely cannot see the truth, or you refuse to admit error.
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It is still obedience though because if an when I do sin, I feel the Godly sorrow in me for grieving the Holy Spirit that leads me to repent/confess of that sin to receive the Lord's remission for it. If there was no obedience I would not repent/confess that sin.
I do not defend the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law, and I constantly preach against all them applying to us. Acts 15 the Apostles lead by the Holy Spirit deemed what few ordinances still apply, and Romans 13:9 Paul shows how love upholds the 10 commandments of God. Paul more then once showed throughout all of his epistles how the commandments are upheld in a believers walk who is walking in the Spirit/love. I even gave a chart the other day on every place that Paul mentioned a commandment from the 10 within his epistles and how they would be upheld.
 
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michael56

Banned
#907
Feb 5, 2015
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kennethcadwell said:
It is still obedience though because if an when I do sin, I feel the Godly sorrow in me for grieving the Holy Spirit that leads me to repent/confess of that sin to receive the Lord's remission for it. If there was no obedience I would not repent/confess that sin.
I do not defend the 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law, and I constantly preach against all them applying to us. Acts 15 the Apostles lead by the Holy Spirit deemed what few ordinances still apply, and Romans 13:9 Paul shows how love upholds the 10 commandments of God. Paul more then once showed throughout all of his epistles how the commandments are upheld in a believers walk who is walking in the Spirit/love. I even gave a chart the other day on every place that Paul mentioned a commandment from the 10 within his epistles and how they would be upheld.
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If you have been born again of the spirit your eternal security is not threatened when you sin(fail to perfectly obey the law) But you come before your Father in Heaven as a child does a parent and asks his forgiveness for how you have acted, there is a difference
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#908
Mar 3, 2011
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#908
michael56 said:
Well Kenneth admits he breaks the law, I admit also I do not perfectly obey the law, are we therefore under a law of righteousness and condemned?
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Are you breaking the law deliberately? If you know something to be sin yet you do it anyway wilfully then yes you are still under condemnation.

are you falling in and out of the same sin, well I can't say God knows your heart but if you are, at very least you have not the rest you could have in Christ.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#909
Mar 3, 2011
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#909
michael56 said:
Who is taking the law away God desires you to keep. The penalty for breaking it is removed from the Christian, the law God desires you to keep was transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts
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So why then do you not keep the Sabbath was that not on the law of stone that you rightly say is put on the heart?
 
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michael56

Banned
#910
Feb 5, 2015
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#910
gotime said:
Are you breaking the law deliberately? If you know something to be sin yet you do it anyway wilfully then yes you are still under condemnation.

are you falling in and out of the same sin, well I can't say God knows your heart but if you are, at very least you have not the rest you could have in Christ.
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Thou we know there is a difference between wilfull deliberate sin and sin committed in ignorance-or simply because we do not perfectly obey the law. Once you attach a persons salvation to obedience to the law you place them under a law of righteousness. You keep forgetting the failsafe mechanism God put in place to safeguard a licence to sin
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#911
#911
gotime said:
This is not hard, If I have faith in Jesus my old nature will die and Christ will live in me and Christ does not break the law. simple
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You are right that Christ can not break His own law, but we even being born again still have our free will.
James says to believers that when we sin it is because we are drawn away by our own lusts. This means the lusts of the flesh are still there, however through the Holy Spirit we can learn to have control on them. This does not mean we may not screw up from time to time. I do however do not believe or side with some I see on here that state we sin everyday, as that would mean they absolutely have learned no self control through the Holy Spirit that Paul preached a lot on.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#912
Mar 3, 2011
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#912
michael56 said:
Thou we know there is a difference between wilfull deliberate sin and sin committed in ignorance-or simply because we do not perfectly obey the law. Once you attach a persons salvation to obedience to the law you place them under a law of righteousness. You keep forgetting the failsafe mechanism God put in place to safeguard a licence to sin
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No I do not forget at all. Jesus died to free you from sin, if you refuse to give up your sin/wilful sin then there is no fail-safe except you repent/turn away from that sin.
 
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michael56

Banned
#913
Feb 5, 2015
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#913
gotime said:
So why then do you not keep the Sabbath was that not on the law of stone that you rightly say is put on the heart?
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Show me my post where I have stated Saturday Sabbath observance has been placed on the heart of Christians and written on their minds. Are you really sure you want to mention this? For if you follow your reasoning through(and you understand the new covenant) anyone who refuses to observe Saturday Sabbath, and has no conviction they are sinning by not doing so cannot be a Christian
I don't mean this unkindly, but this is a major flaw in sda belief. For what I have written is plainly the truth. However, I know people try and avoid it, for it contradicts their beliefs
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#914
Mar 3, 2011
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#914
kennethcadwell said:
You are right that Christ can not break His own law, but we even being born again still have our free will.
James says to believers that when we sin it is because we are drawn away by our own lusts. This means the lusts of the flesh are still there, however through the Holy Spirit we can learn to have control on them. This does not mean we may not screw up from time to time. I do however do not believe or side with some I see on here that state we sin everyday, as that would mean they absolutely have learned no self control through the Holy Spirit that Paul preached a lot on.
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James is telling us why we fall for sin, he is not suggesting we must or will. His point is you sin because you want to sin.

But those who die in Christ have put to death the man of sin.
 
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michael56

Banned
#915
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
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#915
gotime said:
No I do not forget at all. Jesus died to free you from sin, if you refuse to give up your sin/wilful sin then there is no fail-safe except you repent/turn away from that sin.
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What you do not understand is your above comment in reality speaks of a law of righteousness. I accept you may not mean to infer that but you are

The core of Paul's message is. Sin will not be your master for you are not under law but under grace. If you say your security with God hinges on observing the law, you are speaking of a law of righteousness
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#916
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#916
michael56 said:
Show me my post where I have stated Saturday Sabbath observance has been placed on the heart of Christians and written on their minds. Are you really sure you want to mention this? For if you follow your reasoning through(and you understand the new covenant) anyone who refuses to observe Saturday Sabbath, and has no conviction they are sinning by not doing so cannot be a Christian
I don't mean this unkindly, but this is a major flaw in sda belief. For what I have written is plainly the truth. However, I know people try and avoid it, for it contradicts their beliefs
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you said the law on stone is put on the heart. The law on stone had the Sabbath on it.

It does not contradict my belief only yours. I do not believe as you do that suddenly we are all aware of all sin. I believe we learn sin from the word thus we can sin in ignorance. If your belief is true then there is no ignorant sin because you should always know when you are sinning or not.

ITs not a flaw in ours its a flaw in yours. Because we believe that a person must be convicted by the spirit through the word and there are many Christians who live up to the light they have and fully obey in what they know. Of such they are ignorantly disobedient.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#917
Mar 3, 2011
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#917
michael56 said:
What you do not understand is your above comment in reality speaks of a law of righteousness. I accept you may not mean to infer that but you are

The core of Paul's message is. Sin will not be your master for you are not under law but under grace. If you say your security with God hinges on observing the law, you are speaking of a law of righteousness
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That same Paul said establish the law, don't make it void and that the law is fulfilled in those who walk by the spirit.

What you don't understand is obedience is not a bad thing. it is the fruit of conversion.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#918
#918
michael56 said:
If you have been born again of the spirit your eternal security is not threatened when you sin(fail to perfectly obey the law) But you come before your Father in Heaven as a child does a parent and asks his forgiveness for how you have acted, there is a difference
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Yes that is the difference as there is some walking around here, even on this site that are telling others they do not have to repent/confess of that sin asking forgiveness of it. They are walking in lewdness and don't even realize it, and if you try to show them the truth in scripture they still deny it. They believe they have salvation when they don't, and this is the type of people showed in Matthew 7:21-23 where He shows even though they believe and do things in His name. Because they still walk in the flesh (sinful nature) their good deeds and faith was for naught. Titus 1:16 shows the same as some profess Him, but by continuing in their works of the flesh they deny Him.
 
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michael56

Banned
#919
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
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#919
gotime said:
you said the law on stone is put on the heart. The law on stone had the Sabbath on it.

It does not contradict my belief only yours. I do not believe as you do that suddenly we are all aware of all sin. I believe we learn sin from the word thus we can sin in ignorance. If your belief is true then there is no ignorant sin because you should always know when you are sinning or not.

ITs not a flaw in ours its a flaw in yours. Because we believe that a person must be convicted by the spirit through the word and there are many Christians who live up to the light they have and fully obey in what they know. Of such they are ignorantly disobedient.
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I have said we do not need to read the literal words of the ten commandments to know how God wants us to live, that is all. I have never stated the fourth commandment must be kept by observing a specific Saturday Sabbath. If the law is written on your mind and placed on your heart, there is nowhere to hide. It does not matter what any minister tells you, you know it!!

Again, I do not mean this unkindly, but as you know every saturday I attend my wife's church. There is a vacuum there to me. The fullness of the Holy Spirit is not present in understanding. I do not mean that unkindly, the people are very nice and courteous, and none wish to debate differences in doctrine. But when I mentioned in my wifes bible class the law God requires you to keep got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts they all looked puzzled. The young minister said ''That's right'' and quickly changed the subject

I will repeat once again. If it is written on the mind and placed on the heart you must obey Saturday Sabbather you cannot be a Christian unless you have heartfelt conviction before God you are sinning by not observing it. You do yourself no credit by denying that fact
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#920
Mar 3, 2011
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#920
honestly you guys are trying to tell me that obedience is legalism. Don't obey cause that is works and that is bad. that is what I am hearing.

I guess Jesus was a legalist then hey?
 
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