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While I do not believe in Works Based Salvationism or Legalism, we obviously are not talking about the ignoring of the moral law here (with the thinking that you are saved no matter how you live), right? For if one can think they can do evil or sin and think they are saved, then Jesus, Paul, and Peter would be in disagreement with them big time. For Paul says, be not deceived for the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then Paul lists certain sins (Such as murder, hate, theft, sexual immorality, etc.). Paul also says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of godliness is proud and knows nothing. So while I am against Legalism or a rules based system of salvation, it is just as equally wrong to say we do not uphold no law whatseover as a part of being saved. For shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law? Paul replies, God forbid.
[SUP]1[/SUP] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2[/SUP] God forbid.
I'm not disagreeing with Paul, but I'd like to refer you to some thing that the Apostle John said:
[SUP]9[/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So, I agree with the Apostle Paul that just cause we're saved by grace doesn't mean we should continue in sin. But I also agree with the Apostle John that those of us who are saved born again Christians can't sin anymore anyway. Our Faith in Jesus keeps us from being sinners and from sinning. But people who have a problem with legalism have a hard time understanding these verses in John and these spiritual concepts. Righteousness and sinlessness are automatically bestowed upon us by our Faith in Jesus.John says the same thing a few times in his epistle:
[SUP]18[/SUP] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ( People who sin don't know Jesus, People who know Jesus don't sin.) (The reason people sin is because they don't know Jesus, The reason born of God people don't sin is because they do know Jesus.) It doesn't have anything to do with how well you can keep the 10 commandments or any other rules. See? We have to take everything in the context of how the apostles meant it when they first wrote it.
For example, back to what Paul said, Shall we continue in sin because we are not under the law? He was simply saying, Just because we are not under the law anymore doesn't mean we should go hog wild committing murder, adultery, fornication, thefts, drunkenness, etc. and break every law in the book. So, who's doing that or teaching that? Not anybody in this forum that I can think of. So, therefore it's wrong to make such judgmental accusations against people who go a step further than you in their belief in the freedom from sin that Salvation and forgiveness of sins brings us through receiving Jesus as our Lord and Savior. After all, isn't that what your doing? Accusing people who believe in Salvation by grace of believing that now that we're saved we can just go out and commit "murder, hate, theft, sexual immorality, Etc." Those are the exact words you used right? But, again, I haven't heard anybody in this forum actually teach that, which makes your accusation a false one. But as far as committing sins go, we're all sinners and we all sin in the sense that we all make mistakes, succumb to different temptations to disobey, and make wrong decisions in our life,etc., including you. Or are you interpreting what Paul said to mean that once we're saved we shouldn't be allowed to commit any kind of sin or make mistakes or wrong decisions, or disobey the 10 commandments or else we will lose our Salvation? See? This is what a legalist is, somebody who judges others for their sins and disobedience's, when they are just as much a sinner.
Another verse you quoted was:
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
[SUP]4[/SUP] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
[SUP]5[/SUP] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
That's good. But to take it all into context we have to look at the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and see exactly what is the doctrine that is according to godliness.
[SUP]37[/SUP] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
[SUP]39[/SUP] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[SUP]40[/SUP] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Believe in Jesus and you will live forever. There's nothing in there about obeying the 10 commandments)
[SUP]34[/SUP] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35[/SUP] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[SUP]2[/SUP] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[SUP]3[/SUP] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[SUP]4[/SUP] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
(These are all words of Jesus, so let's consent to them. Legalists condemn others for their sins because they base their opinions on what makes a good Christian on how much somebody obeys the moral code or the 10 commandments or other sets of rules rather than on the simple fact that somebody believes in Jesus and therefore is born of God and has all of their sins forgiven them. Being non-judgmental, being forgiving, and loving one another are all synonymous. Legalists have a hard time abiding by these New testament rules that supplant the old testament obedience to the letter of the law.