What laws are still in affect?

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

Nope. . .

When I obey Jesus commandments (Mt 22:37-39) I am fulfilling my duty to all God's law (Mt 22:40).

Dan_473 · Mar 3, 2015

Dietary laws are still in affect which are the clean and unclean meat.

Ceremonial laws are still in affect which are the Holy Feasts of God.

Moral laws are still in affect which are the 10 commandments.

Sacrificial/levitical laws are done away which consists of animal sacrifices, tithing and so forth because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and the High Priest.

Judgmental law/ law of sin and death which is done away with because Jesus died for our sins and so that our punishment would no longer be death.

So the judgmental laws/sin and death are done away and the animal sacrificial laws which were only done by the levitical priest are done away let's not forget tithing you are now to give freely!
Please leave a comment if you agree or disagree. If you disagree please prove only by the Word of God or it's not proof thanks!

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (*Matthew‬ *7‬:*15-21‬ KJV)

How about, instead of proving/disproving our positions from the bible, we talk about what sorts of actions and daily life you are in favor of?

For example, do leave uncut edges of your beard, and put tassels on?

And if you're interested, I'll talk about the actions and daily life I'm in favor of.

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

From another thread:

Word_Swordsman said:

I waited for someone else to bring this up, but it didn't happen. The "clean" and "unclean" of Deuteronomy concerned only what was suitable for the altar in the tabernacle (ceremonially clean), certain (ceremonially clean) animals were fit to keep to eat and sacrifice, while some wild animals (i.e. deer and antelope) were allowed for hunters to take, but not use for (unclean) sacrifice.

The dietary law was given in the wilderness, 40 years before crossing the Jordan into the promised land, all but two men hearing those dying in that wilderness. But Moses preached a big exception for after they crossed the Jordan. The tribes would scatter as lands were conquered, all moving far from the tabernacle, God's approved place for worship and sacrifice.

For any living too far away to take part in exactly perfect sacrifice at that designated spot on earth, the people could kill and eat any flesh they desired for feeding themselves. This proves "unclean" meat was not based on health, and the whole issue was related only to proper sacrifices. Clean or unclean, the blood was forbidden. If in fact killing and eating an "unclean" animal, then one was ceremonially unclean for some hours, contaminating a "clean" animal that then could not be used for sacrifice. That was the provision for the people to be able to eat while settling new lands, building up herds of clean animals, while there was provision of "unclean" animals also saved on Noah's ark. That was to continue until all the tribes livied in safety from enemies, when the Lord would appoint places for sacrifice within reach of all.

Remember there were no synagogues until a century before Jesus was born, there being the tent tabernacle of Moses until Solomon built a permanent temple at Jerusalem.

If you are a practicing Jew, then you can only follow Moses as far as your rabbis/scholars can interpret in the absence of animal sacrifices on the altar. No Jew can today accurately declare they keep the law. They keep traditions and feasts.

If you are a Gentile (non-Jew), whether Christian, Buddhist, atheist, or other, you are not commanded by God to follow Moses. The law was for the Jews. When they rebelled against God and were therefore evicted by God from the promised land, much of their law became abolished immediately with the loss of the temple at Jerusalem and their synagogues, which Moses didn't preach should exist anyway. The rest of their law was abolished at the cross of Christ. Jesus' law took over, as taught mostly by the apostles, per Jesus' sermons about the Kingdom of Heaven. The Jews and Muslims deny Jesus did that. No Christian should deny any claims in the New Testament, none of which depend upon the old law.

Deuteronomy 12:10-24 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat them: the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.

Verse 22 makes it clear that as the always "clean" deer and antelope were allowed as long as they were no part of a sacrifice, so shall you eat whatever you want if there is no close-by place God has appointed for animal sacrifice.
The blood is the only part of any animal that the apostles specified as being off limits to Gentile believers (Christians). They were not even allowed to enter the temple to make a sacrifice anyway, so had no reason to practice ceremonial cleanness.

Any Gentile just touching the outer wall of the tabernacle would be killed. But in Jesus' day Herod's Temple afforded the Court of the Gentiles within the outer wall, quite a change! There were warning signs for them reading "

NO FOREIGNER

IS TO GO BEYOND THE BALUSTRADE

AND THE PLAZA OF THE TEMPLE ZONE

WHOEVER IS CAUGHT DOING SO

WILL HAVE HIMSELF TO BLAME

FOR HIS DEATH

WHICH WILL FOLLOW"

They could worship there, but not take part in the Jew's religion inside. It has never been expected of the world of Gentiles to take part in Judaism, unless taken in by a Jewish family as guest, slave/bondsman, or they convert.

No flesh commonly taken by hunters or herdsmen. etc. is declared unhealthy by God. "Kosher" is not a matter of health as far as scriptures are concerned, having only to do with ritual purity.

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Elin said:

Sure you are, just keep telling yourself that.

If that were truly the case, the bible would be a single page with just two Commandments on it with no need for details on how those two Commandments are to be practiced.

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Dan_473 said:

If by your misguided question, do I shave a circle on my head to honor the sun god Ra, no I don't. Do I understand what the tassels were for and how they were the shadow of what was to come? Yes I do.

Oh please do.

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Elin said:

Rather than copy the entire quote, let me just comment on it. Do you have any idea what this passage is about? Didn't think so. This passage says nothing about a ceremonial law concerning meat.

This is about keeping the Feasts and what is permissible to do with the second tithe. One can use it for meat or drink or whatever you desire (of course that is in the context of what is legal).

Oh and why is verse 23 made into such a point in Acts 15 for the gentiles?

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Elin said:

Show me where clean and unclean meats are a ceremonial Law...

Lev 11:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying, 'These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth:

Lev 11:47 to distinguish between the unclean and the clean, and between the animal that may be eaten and the animal that may not be eaten.' "

Read the entire chapter, there is not a ceremony in site, simply what should and what should not be put into our bodies.

oldthennew · Mar 3, 2015

just a note here,

whether one chooses to 'obey' all of God's Holy Commandments,
or
if one chooses to 'obey' just 'two' of God's Holy Commandments,

it is a FACT that on these (2) Commandments HANG ALL OF THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS,
that is,
on the (2) Supreme, the OTHERS are JOINED, COUPLED, and in HOLY UNITY.

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

You're asking why the "greeting" in v. 23 is made into such a point?

What does that have to do with unclean food?

The Council was convened because some Pharisees (v.5) from Jerusalem, with no
authority in the church (v.24), came down to Antioch (v.1) and insisted that the Gentiles
must be required to obey the law of Moses (v.5).

It was a problem occurring in the provinces of Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, and the temporary
regulations for the sake of Jewish sensitivities there were only for those provinces.
The letter was sent by those in actual authority in the church--the apostles and elders, who
were the Gentiles' brothers (v. 23), contrary to the Pharisees' assertion that these Gentiles
were not saved (v.1).

Why do you ask?

Regarding ceremonially unclean:

The regulations regarding defilement were a matter of religious/ceremonial defilement,
not a matter of moral or physical uncleanness.

The word "ceremonially" is not used in the text, it is the result of the following Biblical facts:

Such things as sexual intercourse and childbirth were defiling, as well as foods which
God had formerly given mankind to eat (Ge 9:3), and all these things required ceremonial
cleansing to remove the defilement.

These regulations regarding defilement were given to show the meaning of sin--it is
spiritual defilement which requires cleansing, for fellowship with God.
The defilements and cleansings were for a figure of sin and its remedy, not for actual
physical or moral uncleanness. The defilement was "ceremonial."

We see this fact in the NT where true defilement is shown to be a matter of the heart
(Mt 7:20-23; 1Tit 1:15; Lk 11:41) not of ordinances regarding food (Mt 15:10; Mk 7:19; Ro 14:14, 20;
Heb 9:10; 1Co 8:7-8, 10:25-29; 1Tim 4:3-5), houses, clothing, sexual intercourse,
childbirth, etc..

The temporary regulations administered by the temporary Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:12)
and temporary old covenant (Heb 8:13) are replaced in the NT with the eternal priesthood
(Heb 7:17, 21) and new covenant (Lk 22:20) of Christ Jesus.

The new covenant (2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15) people of God in the time of reformation/new order
(Heb 9:10), which is the NT, are are no longer under old covenant regulations.

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Elin said:

Sorry, my mistake, I should have made that clear...

Verse 23 in Deut 12...

Deu 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

If this is ceremonial and was done away with the crucifixion, why was it restated and reinforced to gentiles twenty some years after the crucifixion?

Because it is not ceremonial.

Jeff_56 · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

seems like some think he comes every year on the 25th, down the chiminy to leave a few things to keep people happy a while, then leaves till next year ......

and, naturally, (people seem to think and get furious if it's brought up) he doesn't require anything like for instance a life change from naughty to nice...... (sinful to righteous)

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

As was food sacrificed to idols.

Addressed in post #149.

john832 · Mar 3, 2015

Elin said:

Yep, except if the eating of blood was a ceremonial Law, why was it enforced on the gentiles?

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

Addressed in post #149.

seed_time_harvest · Mar 3, 2015

All the law came from GOD and is GODs perfect standard of righteousness and is met by doing the law perfectly its just that no man was able to fulfill the law perfectly.

So I would say all of GODs perfect standard is still in effect but we were graced this perfect righteousness by faith in the finished work of JESUS who sacrificed himself for us.

Before the WORD of GOD/JESUS came to earth in the flesh there was the ten commandments given by Moses and there would be no help for those trying to keep the ten which BTW was nailed to the cross because they were against us.

Now there is the two commandments given by JESUS and once again like it was suppose to be in the beginning is for all those that believe the WORD of GOD.

Faith.

oldthennew · Mar 3, 2015

Elin and John,

for my wife and myself, your communication which each other gives us both not only hope but joy that you
are both so zealous for your Father in Heaven.
how pleased He must be to see you both are searching the depths and riches of His Holy Scriptures,
but,
above being right or wrong on some points of doctrine, you both are presenting to the
whole FORUM that, even though you may disagree on certain points, you both are exemplifying that
this can be done in such a way that it is teaching others how to communicate in a
respectful and decent manner.

thank you!

Elin · Mar 3, 2015

john832 said:

Jesus tells me that (Mt 22:40).

But it's still only two commandments, not 613 or 603 or 601 or 10 or whatever, obedience to which fulfills all duty to all God's law.

Delivery · Mar 3, 2015

Yisraelite said:

No laws of Moses are in affect because the law was the first covenant that God did away with in order to establish the second.

[SUP]19[/SUP] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

[SUP]22[/SUP] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. (The new testament, better than the old testament law.)

[SUP]6[/SUP] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7[/SUP] For if that first covenant (The law of Moses) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For finding fault with them,(THE LAWS) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9[/SUP] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11[/SUP] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12[/SUP] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13[/SUP] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (The old testament laws of Moses waxed old and decayed and eventually died of old age. The entire old covenant of the law of Moses was not a faultless covenant and could never make man perfect. But the new , better covenant of Grace, love and mercy through Jesus Christ does make us perfect by washing away our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.)

[SUP]1[/SUP] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

[SUP]2[/SUP] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13[/SUP] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14[/SUP] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[SUP]16[/SUP] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[SUP]17[/SUP] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, (Jesus)
[SUP]16[/SUP] Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment(The laws of Moses), but after the power of an endless life.(Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord)

Now I understand that in the OP you agree that the judgmental laws of sin and death are done away with, but that the dietary laws, the moral laws and some of the Holy feast days are in affect. But to say that these are still in affect is to say that we will be punished and damned to hell if we disobey them. So the judgmental law of punishment for our sins, for disobeying the law, which you said is done away with, would not be done away with if any other part of the law is still in affect. So you're actually contradicting yourself.

So, all of the old testament law is done away with, and it is replaced by the new Testament law of remission of our sins, and that our sins and iniquities will be remembered no more because of the "once for all" blood sacrifice that Jesus made for us in offering up Himself for our sins.

By the which will we are sanctified(washed, cleansed, forgiven of all our sins and iniquities and disobedience's to the law) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (once and for all, Once saved, always saved)

And for those who think we are still obligated to obey some of the law, such as the moral code of the 10 commandments, or we'll lose our Salvation, let me refer you to a couple of passages. One from Paul and one from James.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.(If you believe you have to keep one part of the law, such as circumcision then you are obligated to keep the whole law. It's either all of it or none of it.)
[SUP]4[/SUP] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.(The ones who are, so-called, "fallen from Grace", are those who don't believe in Grace, those who believe you also have to obey the law, or parts of it, in order to be justified and to retain your salvation.)

Now to what James said, " For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.(So here James is basically saying the same thing Paul said, if you think you have to keep even one part of the law you are obligated to keep it all.)

There's plenty of scriptures that confirm we don't have to keep any of the law. The law is dead. End of matter. (Hebrews 8:13)

MarcR · Mar 3, 2015

[B said:

Ge 9:2-4
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
KJV

Yisraelite

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you

Is a pig a moving thing that lives?

1 Ti 4:1-5
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
KJV

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Did God create the pig or are you giving credit to someone else?

Jeff_56 · Mar 3, 2015

quote from 155. "there was the ten commandments given by Moses and there would be no help for those trying to keep the ten"

only someone who has never read or never understood the bible could say this.

of course, only the righteous in the OT and in the NT would understand , just reading wouldn't mean grasping what it says.

What laws are still in affect?

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