Textual conditions vs The sensible horizon

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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#81
Jul 28, 2012
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#81
Mitspa said:
Actually no ...these are Christian Neuroscientist that have actually studied the healing aspects of the Word of God on the physical brain and balance it brings to the whole mind and body.
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Okay. But consider this in that vein. When the word of God is read to some who is in some form of mental or physical stress this is still revelation being transferred to the MIND of that person. It his how the MIND receives and process the information received that affects the physiology. The brain is nothing more than the compilation of about three pounds of biological tissue. The mind is the human intellect of man that scripture describes as the "inner man" or the soul. This survives the death of this three pounds of flesh we call the brain. This is the part of man through which thought is processed.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#82
#82
oldhermit said:
Okay. But consider this in that vein. When the word of God is read to some who is in some form of mental or physical stress this is still revelation being transferred to the MIND of that person. It his how the MIND receives and process the information received that affects the physiology. The brain is nothing more than the compilation of about three pounds of biological tissue. The mind is the human intellect of man that scripture describes as the "inner man" or the soul. This survives the death of this three pounds of flesh called the brain. This is the part of man through which thought is processed.
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well it all depends on how they receive the word..if they receive it as faith and love..it begins to actually heal the very physical matter of the brain and then in effect the brain works to heal the body...if they receive it as a matter of guilt or fear it works in the brain in a destructive manner and hinders the bodies natural healing process... Its like John said...prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. The Word of God received in faith has a actual physical effect on the mind and body, just as the scriptures declare.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#83
Jul 28, 2012
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#83
Mitspa said:
well it all depends on how they receive the word..if they receive it as faith and love..it begins to actually heal the very physical matter of the brain and then in effect the brain works to heal the body...if they receive it as a matter of guilt or fear it works in the brain in a destructive manner and hinders the bodies natural healing process... Its like John said...prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. The Word of God received in faith has a actual physical effect on the mind and body, just as the scriptures declare.
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I do not have a large problem with that.
Getting back to the focus of this thread, what do you think is the difference between Textual conditions and what I call the sensible horizon.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#84
#84
oldhermit said:
I do not have a large problem with that.
Getting back to the focus of this thread, what do you think is the difference between Textual conditions and what I call the sensible horizon.
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Now help me out again with these terms....sorry but they got confused in some of this other discussion.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#85
Jul 28, 2012
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#85
Mitspa said:
Now help me out again with these terms....sorry but they got confused in some of this other discussion.
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I suppose I should have done this to begin with the establish a point of reference for the discussion. Let me just start by saying this. I think, most people in the world, like most of us in the Church have been taught from birth that there is an acceptable, logical, and rational way in which we are expected to view situations in life. We evaluate human events based on what I call a sensible horizon. This view of our world is drawn from life experiences and is passed down to each succeeding generation by parents and teachers. We treat knowledge as an emerging social property rather than a shared conditionality with God. Society tells us what must be regarded as useful knowledge. This philosophy has certainly had a measure of influence within the Church. Desiring to retain credibility as Christian members of society we attempt to bring our social and cultural experiences to bear upon scripture to make sense of the world around us. We tend to interpret the text dependent upon our place within society. With such an approach to the text, a farmer, a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher would all have formulated varying interpretations of the text based on their individual experiences. Members of society attempt to elaborate the text by mapping what society regards as acceptable knowledge onto the text. We are told that we must always engage the text in such a way that it will not come into conflict with our views of reality. We are taught that in the face of real life situations we must react to these events in a sensible and rational way because we live in a “real world” where physics and physiology must be confronted. This approach to the text embraces man as the source of causation. We attempt to manipulate a given situation in such a way as to develop all the necessary antecedents to bring about redemption from the situation. Indeed, man has always attempted to find his own answers to human problems.

As we examine scripture, we see that God repeatedly and deliberately places man in the most unfavorable circumstances to show us that redemption can never come out of circumstances, no matter how man may attempt to manipulate the relative conditions of a given situation. The overwhelming lesson of scripture is that redemption always and only comes from the Lord. The promises of God are the source of redemptive causation that He imposes upon the situation. In this way, He causes things in the natural order to come into a state of unity with His will. Redemption always stands outside of and beyond the control of man no matter how he attempts to forge a situation to his favor. We can ill afford to approach our experiences as though any kind of symmetry can exist between our situation and the sensible horizon. We must learn to ignore what we understand about physics and physiology and allow the promises of God to determine the outcome of our experiences. These elements, although real, are not determinate. In scripture, these things are never determinate factors when we consider the promises of God. The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#86
#86
oldhermit said:
I suppose I should have done this to begin with the establish a point of reference for the discussion. Let me just start by saying this. I think, most people in the world, like most of us in the Church have been taught from birth that there is an acceptable, logical, and rational way in which we are expected to view situations in life. We evaluate human events based on what I call a sensible horizon. This view of our world is drawn from life experiences and is passed down to each succeeding generation by parents and teachers. We treat knowledge as an emerging social property rather than a shared conditionality with God. Society tells us what must be regarded as useful knowledge. This philosophy has certainly had a measure of influence within the Church. Desiring to retain credibility as Christian members of society we attempt to bring our social and cultural experiences to bear upon scripture to make sense of the world around us. We tend to interpret the text dependent upon our place within society. With such an approach to the text, a farmer, a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher would all have formulated varying interpretations of the text based on their individual experiences. Members of society attempt to elaborate the text by mapping what society regards as acceptable knowledge onto the text. We are told that we must always engage the text in such a way that it will not come into conflict with our views of reality. We are taught that in the face of real life situations we must react to these events in a sensible and rational way because we live in a “real world” where physics and physiology must be confronted. This approach to the text embraces man as the source of causation. We attempt to manipulate a given situation in such a way as to develop all the necessary antecedents to bring about redemption from the situation. Indeed, man has always attempted to find his own answers to human problems.

As we examine scripture, we see that God repeatedly and deliberately places man in the most unfavorable circumstances to show us that redemption can never come out of circumstances, no matter how man may attempt to manipulate the relative conditions of a given situation. The overwhelming lesson of scripture is that redemption always and only comes from the Lord. The promises of God are the source of redemptive causation that He imposes upon the situation. In this way, He causes things in the natural order to come into a state of unity with His will. Redemption always stands outside of and beyond the control of man no matter how he attempts to forge a situation to his favor. We can ill afford to approach our experiences as though any kind of symmetry can exist between our situation and the sensible horizon. We must learn to ignore what we understand about physics and physiology and allow the promises of God to determine the outcome of our experiences. These elements, although real, are not determinate. In scripture, these things are never determinate factors when we consider the promises of God. The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.
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Ok good stuff ..I got sensible horizions ...now am right to assume textual conditions is the actual written intention of the word?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#88
#88
oldhermit said:
Absolutely!
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Ok ..so now we can discuss the issue. would a discussion on how the very meaning of the words used in scripture be helpful to understand your view? Because I have had to spend a lot of time just getting a good hold of words and their true meanings in relation to scripture.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#89
#89
Mitspa said:
Ok ..so now we can discuss the issue. would a discussion on how the very meaning of the words used in scripture be helpful to understand your view? Because I have had to spend a lot of time just getting a good hold of words and their true meanings in relation to scripture.
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Lost part of my thought on this post...I meant to say how the very meaning of words have changed through time...
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#90
Jul 28, 2012
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#90
Mitspa said:
Ok ..so now we can discuss the issue. would a discussion on how the very meaning of the words used in scripture be helpful to understand your view? Because I have had to spend a lot of time just getting a good hold of words and their true meanings in relation to scripture.
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Well, I am not saying that this is not helpful but we have to recognize that there are times in scripture where the Holy Spirit uses words in such a way that they transcend their lexical definition. In other words, the Holy Spirit elevates human language to explain ideas and concepts that the words themselves cannot express.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#91
Jul 28, 2012
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#91
Mitspa said:
Lost part of my thought on this post...I meant to say how the very meaning of words have changed through time...
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Because human language is the product of human experience and with the passing of time the usage of words evolve. Although language itself is an extended property of God it is man who controls how his own culture expresses itself linguistically.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#92
#92
oldhermit said:
Well, I am not saying that this is not helpful but we have to recognize that there are times in scripture where the Holy Spirit uses words in such a way that they transcend their lexical definition. In other words, the Holy Spirit elevates human language to explain ideas and concepts that the words themselves cannot express.
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Like the word predestination? :) Or epignosis...even agape is a word the Holy Spirit seemed to use that has no record in other greek text that I am aware of?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#93
Jul 28, 2012
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#93
Mitspa said:
Like the word predestination? :) Or epignosis...even agape is a word the Holy Spirit seemed to use that has no record in other greek text that I am aware of?
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An even better example would be the us of λόγος in John 1.
 
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Sophia

Guest
#96
#96
I haven't read more than the first page yet, but I wanted to note that my 12 yr old nephew was asking about this topic early this morning.
He was more interested in how we know that what we see and feel is really reality, but the topic led to some interesting places... especially for a 12 yr old to be thinking about.

I am beginning to think that Faith is based on us placing our source of Truth in a source outside of our own senses (Logos).
 
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Sophia

Guest
#97
#97
Oh... It seems the thread is more aimed at linguistic philosophy... I will sit quietly and listen then, because I have no knowledge on the subject.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#98
#98
Sophia said:
I haven't read more than the first page yet, but I wanted to note that my 12 yr old nephew was asking about this topic early this morning.
He was more interested in how we know that what we see and feel is really reality, but the topic led to some interesting places... especially for a 12 yr old to be thinking about.

I am beginning to think that Faith is based on us placing our source of Truth in a source outside of our own senses (Logos).
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I must admit im interested but lack some ability and trying to allow our friend Oldhermit to teach some while at the same time relating it to the truth I have come to understand :)
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#99
Jan 27, 2013
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#99
linguistic the scientific study of language.modern linguistics has three main branches to corresponding to three main components of language, semantics , grammar, and phonetics.

first rule of trying to teach anyone, would be, to be understood. the bible is translated , so the translators would use words of there day to explain words they are trying to understand in translating to the bible.
for example the old king james bible is a prime example of words used in there era, when translating the bible in to english.
so the king jame i would have to understand old english, even when we speak in modern english.
every bible needs an outside source, to understand it, for example, history of time and place, what era was the book wrote. who is he speaking to,etc etc
so grammar, first needs to be understood, to make sense of what is written.
the converting used in humans, in mind ,body and soul, are still a mystery to scientific study, and why god gave the holy spirit. and why paul tried to explain this when he wrote of different spiritual gifts.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#100
#100
oldhermit said:
The question was not really intended to examine continuity between biblical texts but to cause us to think about how we are to create a synthesis between human experience and the biblical text.
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i've gotten this far (again...lol)
but isn't part of the point that we can't create such a synthesis?
too often God, His Word, and His Promises defy reason and logic, don't they?

i thought that last time around, but figured it couldn't be correct. :eek:
 
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