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jahsoul
Guest
A few things:
It has long been debated if Jews whom called themselves such after the first century. Also, technically Israel is not Jewish. Scripturally, they were not and could not be synonymous. No all from the House of Israel could be considered "Jew." Judeans/Judahites were those who were descendants of Judah (1 out of 12 tribes) or inhabited the region of Judah (3 out of 12 tribes). From there, it also became synonymous to those who practiced the religion of Judaism. Truthfully, neither you nor I know if they are actually of the House of Israel (which Biblical prophecy actually refers to). So I don't know how much stock to put into that, especially when the only thing that people care about is a state called Israel but totally ignoring conditions that came with that, i.e. reunification of Judah and Israel, God people their banner (which is crazy considering that Zionism was started by a self proclaimed atheist and majority of the country is either secular), etc.
Also, it has been questioned if 6 million Jews were killed. People believe that 6 millions was actually the number of Polish citizens that were killed, with closer to 3 million being Polish Jews and (something you never hear from anyone speaking of the Holocaust) 3 million were Polish Christians. We also don't take the 5 million non Polish citizens who were said to be killed during the Holocaust.
Revisionism is on both sides...
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
An orthodox sharia Islamic theocratic republic dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the submission of the entire world to Islam through subterfuge and force sits on an ocean of oil claiming it has to enrich uranium to meet its energy needs.
Proven (not counting undiscovered) oil reserves in Iran are the world's third largest measuring approximately 150 billion barrels.
Leftards, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
Proven (not counting undiscovered) oil reserves in Iran are the world's third largest measuring approximately 150 billion barrels.
Leftards, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
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didymos
Guest
Well then, what are we waiting for...
(I promise Bibi won't be joining us though)
Revisionism isn't necessarily a bad thing if it clears up commonly-accepted historical lies. Going back to the same time period, the Polish did not charge German tanks with sabres and lances. That was, according to the historian Andrew Roberts, an invention by the Goebbels in an attempt to cover up some embarrassments suffered at the hands of the Poles.
Either way, it's a good revision in that it torpedoes a Nazi lie. Yeah, sometimes history isn't entirely written by the victors. Heck, ask Thucydides.
Anyway. Virtually every text I have read substantiates the fact that six million Jews of varying national identity were slain in the Holocaust and I am pretty well-read when it comes to twentieth century history. I want to know where you got that information. Granted, six million people is six million people. And Three million people murdered is still a tragedy.
Thank you for showing the complexity of the question over who a Jew is exactly. It is not an easy question to answer.
Neither is it clear who started "Zionism" as we know it.
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jahsoul
Guest
You are right about Zionism but it's always accredited to Theodor Herzi, who called himself an atheist.
And regarding the Jewish question, I look into that VERY deeply because Revelation 3:9 is in scripture for a reason. I don't blindly follow the crowd, especially if everything can't be checked according the scripture. I treat them the same way I treat every other person because God is not a respecter of person and neither am I
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prodigal
Guest
It was good to see some real leadership (Netanyahu) in the U.S. Congress again.
I would liken Theodore Herzl to William F. Buckley Jr. Both of them were highly influential pamphleteers that were good at uniting an activating a movement in response to an evil they and their people witnessed. It is a necessary function in a political movement that very few people have the grit and brains to take on. The most powerful ideas they espoused had a basis in what was already being knocked around by intellectuals, politicians, and even common people for decades or centuries in the case of Herzl.
That said, most Zionists of the era were non-Orthodox Ashkenazi Jews who held to differing degrees of agnosticism and atheism, but still retained a pretty strong cultural identity otherwise. Not unlike many of the Jews who populate Israel today.
Honestly, I'm not very well versed in eschatology, so that is a debate I will not involve myself in though I would like to read what you or anyone else on here would like to write on the matter. But I'm also Halakhic Jew who finds his identity fully in Christ, so I lean more toward replacement theology (probably not the best reason).
That said, I also support the modern Jewish state in Eratz Israel. I'm complicated. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things.
Well, tonight on the News, every report about the speech confirmed that this Sunset Clause is a part of the negotiations. Even some Democrats said they were against such a clause. If this is true, then the Democrat Senator who led off speaking for the Democrat rebuttal flat out lied when he said the clause did not exist.
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kaylagrl
Guest
One of the most well-known, if not iconic, facts known about the Holocaust is the number of Jewish victims killed by Nazi Germany up through the end of World War II.Where did the number six million come from?The number seems to have first been mentioned by Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, an Austrian-born official in the Third Reich and a trained historian who served in a number of senior positions in the SS.In November 1945, Hoettl testified for the prosecution in the Nuremberg trials of accused Nazi war criminals. Later, in the 1961 trial in Israel of Adolf Eichmann, he also submitted to a lengthy series of questions from the prosecution, speaking under oath from a courtroom in Austria.
On both occasions, he described a conversation he had had with Eichmann, the SS official who had principal responsibility for the logistics of the Jewish genocide, in Budapest in August 1944. In the 1961 testimony, Hoettl recalled how “Eichmann … told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 Jews had perished until then -- 4,000,000 in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 through shooting by the Operations Units.
On its website, Yad Vashem, Israel’s principal Holocaust research center, quotes the Eichmann reference, and then says that both early and more recent estimates by a variety of different scholars have fallen between five and six million.
Such estimates are arrived at by comparing pre-war census data with population estimates made after World War II. The Germans, though they treated their plan for annihilation of the Jews as a state secret of the highest order, also kept scrupulous records of deportations and gassings, which also serve as a vital source of data.
One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate.
Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” (1975), used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900. And one of the more authoritative German scholars of the subject, Wolfgang Benz, offered a range of 5.3 to 6.2 million. Each used his or her own method to arrive at the totals.
Yad Vashem itself also has its Names Database, an ongoing project in which it attempts to collect the name of every Jewish victim of the Nazis. It relies on testimony from family and friends of those who perished, official archives from the period, and local commemoration projects.
One of the largest sources of uncertainty concerns the number of Jews murdered in the Soviet Union. Whereas the Jews of the countries of Europe occupied by the Germans were for the most part deported to death camps, where fairly good records were kept, the murders in the USSR were carried out by Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing units), as the German army made its way east. Their records were far less comprehensive, so that it is possible only to make a rough estimate of the numbers of Jews killed – generally between 800,000 and 1 million. Haaretz.com
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JonahLynx
Guest
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The fact Nancy Pelosi started screeching like a howler monkey is a good sign. The irony, of course, is that despite her infrequent visits to mass she's a Jew.
??? Elsewhere? Weird............I was under the impression that opposing views were acceptable here. Hmm, guess not.