The Sacred Letters of Timothy..OT Law or NT epistles?

[Mitspa]

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the (sacred letters) holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

We know this letter to Timothy was Pauls last letter, he was in Rome at the time it was written. We know Timothy was a young man relative to most others. We know Timothys mother taught him Christ from the time of his youth. I believe its quite clear that these sacred letters are New Testament letters, and not the Old Testament law..

 

[oldhermit]

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the (sacred letters) holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

We know this letter to Timothy was Pauls last letter, he was in Rome at the time it was written. We know Timothy was a young man relative to most others. We know Timothys mother taught him Christ from the time of his youth. I believe its quite clear that these sacred letters are New Testament letters, and not the Old Testament law..

The scriptures he is referring had to be the OT scriptures courtesy of his Jewish mother. When Timothy first met Paul it was around 54-55 AD and Timothy was still a very young man. Very few NT letters had been written by this time. Since Timothy's instruction was an experience of his formative years it would have had to have been the OT scripture.

 

[Mitspa]

The scriptures he is referring had to be the OT scriptures courtesy of his Jewish mother. When Timothy first met Paul it was around 54-55 AD and Timothy was still a very young man. Very few NT letters had been written by this time. Since Timothy's instruction was an experience of his formative years it would have had to have been the OT scripture.

No, I don't think so, there is no reason to doubt that every body of Christians believers att. had letters from the apostles and even as Paul established churches he was giving letters of doctrine etc... There is no reason to assume these sacred letters was the Old Testament law. Its also clear that Timothy was not raised as a Jew, seeing he was not circumcised. His mother would not have access to the torah apart from the synagogue ...where timothy would not have been accepted.

 

[oldhermit]

No, I don't think so, there is no reason to doubt that every body of Christians believers att. had letters from the apostles and even as Paul established churches he was giving letters of doctrine etc... There is no reason to assume these sacred letters was the Old Testament law. Its also clear that Timothy was not raised as a Jew, seeing he was not circumcised. His mother would not have access to the torah apart from the synagogue ...where timothy would not have been accepted.

Well, the earliest books we know of were James (mid 40's) and the two Thessalonian letters (50-51). It is possible that these may have been known to her but these are much too late for Timothy to have been taught these from his youth.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, the earliest books we know of were James (mid 40's) and the two Thessalonian letters (50-51). It is possible that these may have been known to her but these are much too late for Timothy to have been taught these from his youth.

I think those dates are just educated guesses, but they do not explain how timothy could have been educated in the faith of Christ from his youth unless he had access to the gospel in the written form, which we know that Paul did...for those gentile churches he established.

What we do know is that timothy was not raised a jew under the law...that's clear!

 

[oldhermit]

No, I don't think so, there is no reason to doubt that every body of Christians believers att. had letters from the apostles and even as Paul established churches he was giving letters of doctrine etc... There is no reason to assume these sacred letters was the Old Testament law. Its also clear that Timothy was not raised as a Jew, seeing he was not circumcised. His mother would not have access to the torah apart from the synagogue ...where timothy would not have been accepted.

I would not expect that since Acts 16 tells us that this entire family seems to have been believers that there is any reason to suggest that Timothy would have been taught the Law from the OT scriptures. He would have been taught things like the Messianic passages. Like the Ethiopian eunuch, Philip taught him Jesus beginning from Isaiah. Paul reasoned with those in the synagogues concerning Jesus "from the scriptures." These would have had to have been the OT scriptures. It would seem more likely that the scriptures from which Timothy was taught about Jesus would have been the OT.

 

[oldhermit]

I think those dates are just educated guesses, but they do not explain how timothy could have been educated in the faith of Christ from his youth unless he had access to the gospel in the written form, which we know that Paul did...for those gentile churches he established.

What we do know is that timothy was not raised a jew under the law...that's clear!

Maybe but they are the earliest possible dates. Most scholar date them mush later.

 

[Mitspa]

Im finding quite a few sources that believe Matthew was written in the 30s and book of Galatians was written as early as the 40s

and its seems clear they had received letters before the one we have as cannon.

 

[Mitspa]

Maybe but they are the earliest possible dates. Most scholar date them mush later.

No Im finding these things are just guess work...and again how was timothy taught of the truth of Christ by the law, even tho he was not Jew and clearly the law does not teach Christ, except in shadow and type?

 

[oldhermit]

Im finding quite a few sources that believe Matthew was written in the 30s and book of Galatians was written as early as the 40s

and its seems clear they had received letters before the one we have as cannon.

That is possible but I doubt it. It is not likely they were written this early. Even Mark may have been written very early. But, if these date are possible and Timothy was 20 years old when Paul first met him these would have been early enough dates for his parents to have had access to them.

 

[Mitspa]

I would not expect that since Acts 16 tells us that this entire family seems to have been believers that there is any reason to suggest that Timothy would have been taught the Law from the OT scriptures. He would have been taught things like the Messianic passages. Like the Ethiopian eunuch, Philip taught him Jesus beginning from Isaiah. Paul reasoned with those in the synagogues concerning Jesus "from the scriptures." These would have had to have been the OT scriptures. It would seem more likely that the scriptures from which Timothy was taught about Jesus would have been the OT.

I agree in principal, that Timothy would have drawn much from the Old Testament types and shadows, as he was raised a Christian and his mother being Jewish ...Paul would have taught from the Old testament as we clearly see. But its also clear that letters was being sent to all gentile churches in regards to doctrine in the gospel and att the time of 2 Tim all Pauls epistles was established throughout the churches.

And Paul uses to different words for "letters" and "scriptures" ...I believe its more likely he is speaking of sacred "letters" in regards to the faith in Christ... For Paul continues to refer Timothy to HIS doctrine...

 

[oldhermit]

No Im finding these things are just guess work...and again how was timothy taught of the truth of Christ by the law, even tho he was not Jew and clearly the law does not teach Christ, except in shadow and type?

Let us just think about that for a moment. Since the entire sacrificial system was a show of Christ what can we learn about Christ from these, what could Timothy have been taught about Christ from these? What do we learn about Jesus from the Burnt Offering sacrifice for example?

 

[Mitspa]

That is possible but I doubt it. It is not likely they were written this early. Even Mark may have been written very early. But, if these date are possible and Timothy was 20 years old when Paul first met him these would have been early enough dates for his parents to have had access to them.

What we know is that his mother taught him Christian doctrine from his youth, and Paul would have established this body of believers. And there is no real way of knowing how early Paul started writing letters to the first churches.

 

[Mitspa]

Let us just think about that for a moment. Since the entire sacrificial system was a show of Christ what can we learn about Christ from these, what could Timothy have been taught about Christ from these? What do we learn about Jesus from the Burnt Offering sacrifice for example?

Through Paul and the knowledge of the New Testament, we can look back and see these things, but they in of themselves do not preach the faith of Jesus Christ apart from the revelation of the Cross and the testimony of Apostles.

 

[oldhermit]

And Paul uses to different words for "letters" and "scriptures" ...I believe its more likely he is speaking of sacred "letters" in regards to the faith in Christ... For Paul continues to refer Timothy to HIS doctrine...

It is the same word John used in John 5:47 to describe the writings of Moses.

 

[oldhermit]

Through Paul and the knowledge of the New Testament, we can look back and see these things, but they in of themselves do not preach the faith of Jesus Christ apart from the revelation of the Cross and the testimony of Apostles.

Philip did. No NT letters had been written this early.

 

[oldhermit]

And there is no real way of knowing how early Paul started writing letters to the first churches.

That is not altogether true. Some of the letters can be pin pointed pretty close.

 

[Mitspa]

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

There is clear evidence, that letters was being sent to the Gentile churches...from the beginning.

 

[Mitspa]

That is not altogether true. Some of the letters can be pin pointed pretty close.

Well some can and many of them refer to letters sent before that we have no record of... Like in 1 Cor we see Paul refer to writings he had sent before that had the authority of God.

 

[oldhermit]

Ac 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

There is clear evidence, that letters was being sent to the Gentile churches...from the beginning.

I am not denying this point. What I am saying is that no NT SCRIPTURE had been written this early. Beside, a number of years had passed between Acts 8 and Acts 15.
Obviously it is important to you for one reason or another to believe 2Tim. refers to the NT scriptures rather than the OT scriptures which were easily available. So, I am not going to try to convince you otherwise.