-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
Ac 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
I think the event with phillip and the enuch agrees more that Timothy had to have guidance from Paul and his letters to understand the law, than the idea that he did not.
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
I think the event with phillip and the enuch agrees more that Timothy had to have guidance from Paul and his letters to understand the law, than the idea that he did not.
M
lets see its is believed that 2 Peter was written around 60AD ...
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So by 60 ad...all of Pauls epistles would have been well-known and established throughout the churches, including the Jewish believers to which Peter is writing.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So by 60 ad...all of Pauls epistles would have been well-known and established throughout the churches, including the Jewish believers to which Peter is writing.
[h=1] Timotiyos II 3:15Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]And that from infancy
you have known the <<Kitvei HaKodesh, which are able to make you chocham>> with a view to Yeshu’at Eloheynu through emunah in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua.
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010, 2011 by Artists for Israel International
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Kehillah in Galatia 3:8-10Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
8 And the <<Kitvei HaKodesh, having foreseen that Hashem would yatzdik (justify) the Goyim>> by emunah, preached the Besuras HaGeulah beforehand to Avraham Avinu, saying "VENIVRECHU VO KOL GOYEI HA’ARETZ ("All the families, peoples of the earth will be blessed in you" BERESHIS 18:18; 12:3).
ecc:
"Searcher has clearly declared what he emphasizes throughout the whole book of Ecclesiastes: That it is the man or woman who finds the Living God who discovers the answer to the riddles of life."
i.e.
starting with a false premise, and trying to twist the truth of God to fit it, is wrong.
the world can never grasp it, so the spammer,
being not of truth, keeps trying to deceive all others in it's deception..... (instead of being justified by yahshua, instead of being made clean from sin, instead of even seeking truth)
you have known the <<Kitvei HaKodesh, which are able to make you chocham>> with a view to Yeshu’at Eloheynu through emunah in Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua.
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010, 2011 by Artists for Israel International
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Kehillah in Galatia 3:8-10Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
8 And the <<Kitvei HaKodesh, having foreseen that Hashem would yatzdik (justify) the Goyim>> by emunah, preached the Besuras HaGeulah beforehand to Avraham Avinu, saying "VENIVRECHU VO KOL GOYEI HA’ARETZ ("All the families, peoples of the earth will be blessed in you" BERESHIS 18:18; 12:3).
ecc:
"Searcher has clearly declared what he emphasizes throughout the whole book of Ecclesiastes: That it is the man or woman who finds the Living God who discovers the answer to the riddles of life."
i.e.
starting with a false premise, and trying to twist the truth of God to fit it, is wrong.
the world can never grasp it, so the spammer,
being not of truth, keeps trying to deceive all others in it's deception..... (instead of being justified by yahshua, instead of being made clean from sin, instead of even seeking truth)
M
No clearly they was...to what extent is unclear. And in context Paul is clearly speaking to his teachings and doctrine.
The Old testament did not teach the faith of Jesus Christ...He was never mentioned except in type and shadow, so in context Paul must be speaking of his own "letters" and those being sent throughout the established churches att ....which is the term he uses.
The Old testament did not teach the faith of Jesus Christ...He was never mentioned except in type and shadow, so in context Paul must be speaking of his own "letters" and those being sent throughout the established churches att ....which is the term he uses.
M
Shadows and types...just like I said!
Can you quote some scripture from the Old Testament to show that? NO! you cant, they had faith in God, but they did not know the person of the Lord Jesus Christ that came in the flesh. They was not "saved" as in born-again of the spirit and having the Holy Spirit..
Can you quote some scripture from the Old Testament to show that? NO! you cant, they had faith in God, but they did not know the person of the Lord Jesus Christ that came in the flesh. They was not "saved" as in born-again of the spirit and having the Holy Spirit..
Last edited by a moderator:
J
I'm not sure what you mean by "Timothy's mother taught him Christ from the time of his youth". IOW, are you saying that Timothy's mother taught him that Jesus is the Christ (Hey, that would make a good username) or that she just taught him about the Christ in general without yet knowing that Jesus is the Christ? From what I read in scripture, it seems highly unlikely to me that Timothy's mother knew that Jesus is the Christ from the time of his youth and I'll now give some reasons for the same.
For starters, Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his "son":
"For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church." (I Corinthians 4:17)
Philippians chapter 2
[19] But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
[20] For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
[21] For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
[22] But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
"Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord." (I Timothy 1:2)
"This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;" (I Timothy 1:18)
"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus." (II Timothy 2:1)
In what sense was Timothy Paul's "son"?
Well, obviously, Paul wasn't Timothy's biological father, so why would Paul then refer to Timothy as his "son"?
I believe that the answer to this question is found in what we just read from I Timothy 1:2:
"Timothy, my own son IN THE FAITH..."
IOW, it seems rather apparent to me that Paul had "begotten" Timothy through the gospel, even as he said elsewhere in regard to others and seemingly in regard to Timothy himself:
I Corinthians chapter 4
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
[16] Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
[17] For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
In the context of speaking of those whom he had "begotten through the gospel", Paul referred to "Timotheus, who is my beloved son". If Timothy truly was "begotten" of Paul "though the gospel" and was his spiritual "son", then Timothy's mother obviously didn't have the privilege of leading Timothy to Christ. In relation to Timothy and his mother, we read:
Acts chapter 16
[1] Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
[2] Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
[3] Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
When Paul came to Derbe and Lystra, he found a certain disciple there named Timothy who was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. Now, at first glance, this seems to be when Paul and Timothy first met, but is such really the case? Personally, I highly doubt that it is and I believe that it's highly probably that Timothy became a disciple as a direct result of Paul's preaching on a prior journey to this region by Paul. Backing up a couple of chapters in the book of Acts, we read:
Acts chapter 14
[5] And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
[6] They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
[7] And there they preached the gospel.
[8] And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
[9] The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
[10] Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
[11] And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
[12] And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
[13] Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
[14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
[15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
[16] Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
[17] Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
[18] And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
[19] And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
[20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
[21] And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
[22] Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Paul had PREVIOUSLY preached the gospel at Lystra and Derbe and taught many and confirmed the souls of the disciples and he had also suffered great persecution at the hands of those from Antioch and Iconium who persuaded the people to stone him. Why is this significant? Well, I believe that it's significant because Paul later wrote the following to Timothy:
II Timothy chapter 3
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
[11] Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
How did Timothy "fully know" of Paul's "persecutions and afflictions which came to him at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra"? Did Timothy "fully know" of the same because he was then present as one of the disciples whom Paul had "begotten through the gospel"? It seems highly probable to me.
Anyhow, just some things to ponder in light of scripture...
For starters, Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his "son":
"For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church." (I Corinthians 4:17)
Philippians chapter 2
[19] But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
[20] For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
[21] For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
[22] But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
"Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord." (I Timothy 1:2)
"This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;" (I Timothy 1:18)
"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus." (II Timothy 2:1)
In what sense was Timothy Paul's "son"?
Well, obviously, Paul wasn't Timothy's biological father, so why would Paul then refer to Timothy as his "son"?
I believe that the answer to this question is found in what we just read from I Timothy 1:2:
"Timothy, my own son IN THE FAITH..."
IOW, it seems rather apparent to me that Paul had "begotten" Timothy through the gospel, even as he said elsewhere in regard to others and seemingly in regard to Timothy himself:
I Corinthians chapter 4
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
[16] Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
[17] For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
In the context of speaking of those whom he had "begotten through the gospel", Paul referred to "Timotheus, who is my beloved son". If Timothy truly was "begotten" of Paul "though the gospel" and was his spiritual "son", then Timothy's mother obviously didn't have the privilege of leading Timothy to Christ. In relation to Timothy and his mother, we read:
Acts chapter 16
[1] Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
[2] Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
[3] Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
When Paul came to Derbe and Lystra, he found a certain disciple there named Timothy who was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. Now, at first glance, this seems to be when Paul and Timothy first met, but is such really the case? Personally, I highly doubt that it is and I believe that it's highly probably that Timothy became a disciple as a direct result of Paul's preaching on a prior journey to this region by Paul. Backing up a couple of chapters in the book of Acts, we read:
Acts chapter 14
[5] And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
[6] They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
[7] And there they preached the gospel.
[8] And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
[9] The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
[10] Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
[11] And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
[12] And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
[13] Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
[14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
[15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
[16] Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
[17] Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
[18] And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
[19] And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
[20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
[21] And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
[22] Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Paul had PREVIOUSLY preached the gospel at Lystra and Derbe and taught many and confirmed the souls of the disciples and he had also suffered great persecution at the hands of those from Antioch and Iconium who persuaded the people to stone him. Why is this significant? Well, I believe that it's significant because Paul later wrote the following to Timothy:
II Timothy chapter 3
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
[11] Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
How did Timothy "fully know" of Paul's "persecutions and afflictions which came to him at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra"? Did Timothy "fully know" of the same because he was then present as one of the disciples whom Paul had "begotten through the gospel"? It seems highly probable to me.
Anyhow, just some things to ponder in light of scripture...
J
In regard to the actual timing of the writing of the New Testament, I'm going to just quote myself from several weeks ago on another thread:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/106668-what-new-testament-anyway.html#post1866462
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/106668-what-new-testament-anyway.html#post1866462