Gentile Christians sharing the Gospel with Jews

[just-me]

I have heard many antisemitic claims that Jews live within a different religious parameter than do Gentile believers and this was God's intention beginning with the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision. I for one do not believe this to be true for when Jesus was ministering during His time on earth His preaching was largely to the Jews and substantially less to the Gentiles. Even so, there is only one way to the Father as Jesus spoke......

[SUP]"[/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, (a Jew named Thomas) I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Many Jews do not believe that Jesus is the true Messiah, and have rejected the church because of persecution by governments that used the church for that purpose as did Constantine and Hitler to name only 2. I believe there is a reason that there is no longer a temple to make sacrifices in, that fact being a confirmation that Jesus finished those things by His sacrifice for the entire world. I think that the church of today could learn many truths from the Jews as will as the Jews learning many truths from Christians. I endorse these thoughts, wondering why both Jews and Gentiles are so far apart and apathetic to a connection that is supposed to be according to scripture. Should we not be one body in Christ, both Jews and Gentile believers?

Ephesians 2:11-16
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; (in reference to Temple sacrificial ordinances) for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Should we not be more aware of God's will concerning Jews, and strive for a connection with them in Christ Jesus?

"But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you." (Romans 10:19)

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (Romans 11:11)

 

[Jeff_56]

"Should we not be one body in Christ, both Jews and Gentile believers?"

"WE" (ekklesia immersed in yahshua) are. just not seen here or in most places.

the 3 admonitions below are and have been used by the enemy widely
to 'punish' and to 'get rid of' the pesky real and true believers since about 300a.d. --- few groups use true and "right-ruling" , but when and if there are any ekklesia around you, yahweh will or is certainly able to bring you together.

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"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them." Romans 16:17

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

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[SUP]"16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Should we not be more aware of God's will concerning Jews, and strive for a connection with them in Christ Jesus?

YES --- yahweh will accomplish this perfectly, when he is permitted to. men trusting 'religion' often stop him willfully and wittingly and ignorantly.

"But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you." (Romans 10:19)

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (Romans 11:11) "

 

[DesiredHaven]

There is no Jew or Greek in Christ, but with either "outside of him" there is.

Just as cicumcision after the flesh (done by the hands of men) is nothing and uncircumscision (after the flesh, left undone by the hands of man) is nothing. But are of the true circumcision by the Spirit if they are in Christ, circumcision is of the heart by the Spirit.

That which is in the body (and considered Christ's) is he that has the Spirit of God, otherwise he is none of his.

 

[just-me]

"Should we not be one body in Christ, both Jews and Gentile believers?"

"WE" (ekklesia immersed in yahshua) are. just not seen here or in most places.

the 3 admonitions below are and have been used by the enemy widely
to 'punish' and to 'get rid of' the pesky real and true believers since about 300a.d. --- few groups use true and "right-ruling" , but when and if there are any ekklesia around you, yahweh will or is certainly able to bring you together.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them." Romans 16:17

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

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[SUP]"16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Should we not be more aware of God's will concerning Jews, and strive for a connection with them in Christ Jesus?

YES --- yahweh will accomplish this perfectly, when he is permitted to. men trusting 'religion' often stop him willfully and wittingly and ignorantly.

"But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you." (Romans 10:19)

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (Romans 11:11) "

You have made a very good point and what you mention about my signature is true. I never meant it as you have indicated, yet only for some professing Christians who revile some other believers by labeling according to their preconceived assumptions. I do however think it is time for all professing believers in Christ to agree with the substantial place God has made for Israel including the Jews according to God's promise. We as Christians should show them grace, love, and mercy that we have received from God the Father through His Son Yeshua Messiah in order for all to see that we are one in Christ. I am chagrined that Obama treated Netanyahu as he did, and in so doing cursing Israel for the sake of a treaty with Iran. The consequence of rejection is in the Word of God.

[SUP]"[/SUP]And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3)

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1)

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

 

[sparty-g]

I attend a mixed multitude congregation of Messianic Jewish and non-Jewish believers. One body. It's awesome.

 

[Karraster]

One body, one way, same set of instructions, not complicated. The King is not present, and so every man does what is right in his own eyes. Who is following/doing what Jesus/YaHshua Messiah told us to do? Who is disregarding man's rules and regulations and living life as if the King was among us? He is among us, He sees our every move, hears our every thought. May we all use the gifts He gave us to further His Kingdom. Good thread brother, very encouraging.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

One body, one way, same set of instructions, not complicated. The King is not present, and so every man does what is right in his own eyes. Who is following/doing what Jesus/YaHshua Messiah told us to do? Who is disregarding man's rules and regulations and living life as if the King was among us? He is among us, He sees our every move, hears our every thought. May we all use the gifts He gave us to further His Kingdom. Good thread brother, very encouraging.

same set of instructions . . . . really? Throughout the word of God, there are different administrations - oikonomia - the administration of a house or household (oikos=house; nomos=law). The rules of the house or management of the house.
There are things that have changed throughout these administrations: 1) Marriage regulations changed. 2) Worship practices changed. 3) Food regulations changed. 4) Sabbath regulations changed.

The word of God is ALL important; ALL is God-breathed; ALL is profitable for instruction - right doctrine, reproof and correction. Is the WHOLE Bible applicable to the church? This understanding of different administrations does not cause division but the misunderstanding, contradiction and misapplication of scripture is what causes confusion and division.

 

[psalm6819]

The most effective way to share the gospel with Jews would be Isaiah 53 or Psalm 22, point being, using fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies that point to Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah.

 

[Karraster]

same set of instructions . . . . really? Throughout the word of God, there are different administrations - oikonomia - the administration of a house or household (oikos=house; nomos=law). The rules of the house or management of the house.
There are things that have changed throughout these administrations: 1) Marriage regulations changed. 2) Worship practices changed. 3) Food regulations changed. 4) Sabbath regulations changed.

The word of God is ALL important; ALL is God-breathed; ALL is profitable for instruction - right doctrine, reproof and correction. Is the WHOLE Bible applicable to the church? This understanding of different administrations does not cause division but the misunderstanding, contradiction and misapplication of scripture is what causes confusion and division.

There are many "doctrines". There is only one Messiah. He was slain from the foundation of the world it is written, so time is relevant in your mind only.
You see Torah as bondage, I see it as freedom. Blood was spilled once and for all as our sacrifice, to pay the price for our freedom to serve our Creator in the way in which He has instructed.
Whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as an offering to the Lord.

 

[crossnote]

The early Messianic Movement of the '40's and '50's were filled with Jewish converts who had been witnessed to by Gentiles.
Back then there was not a phobia to say 'Jesus' or celebrate Easter and Christmas etc.
Ruth Wardell, a Gentile, was a prime example of this...
Biography of Ruth With The Truth Wardell: Ruth Wardell, Jeffrey Gutterman: 9781935174080: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Karraster]

phobia? uh oh, looks like somebody has got offended.

 

[just-me]

The Jews (belonging to Israel but not Israel as a whole) have learned that God's children are seen by God as communal and classify themselves as one nation. This is Old Testament truth. Evangelical persuasion sees the relationship with God as individual (in general) and not communal which is New Testament minus this Old Testament classification. If each person 's viewpoint entailed both, (which are true) our outlook would be enhanced concerning God's divine will, and we would be able to more fully "love our neighbor as ourselves."

 

[peacefulbeliever]

There are many "doctrines". There is only one Messiah. He was slain from the foundation of the world it is written, so time is relevant in your mind only.
You see Torah as bondage, I see it as freedom. Blood was spilled once and for all as our sacrifice, to pay the price for our freedom to serve our Creator in the way in which He has instructed.
Whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as an offering to the Lord.

I know there is only one Messiah . . . I was responding to your statement: same set of instructions.

I do not see the instructions of God as being bondage.

 

[just-me]

Now the Bible clearly says that Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah) is the KING of the Jews. Then it clearly enlightens the Gentiles that we are grafted into the true vine who is also King of the Jews. It continues to be said in His Word that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. I take it that the instruction for yesterday being given to God's children are the same as today. Christ fulfilled the sacrifice according to all those ordinances. Therefore those things have been physically annulled. The concept of sacrifice still is relevant however for we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable through our High Priest Jesus Christ. What is secret belongs to God. What has been given belongs to us.

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29:29)

Like Karraster said and I endorse from experience, many Christians today view the Torah as bondage, She and I see it as freedom from bondage. Its the "law of liberty" to those who believe. Communal thing ya know.

 

[just-me]

As the lawless Pharisees (not all of them) desired Jesus to be a separate entity from Abraham and Moses, so do many today want the same. In relation, God's will is for the Jews and the Gentiles to be as one in Christ, but as we can see, the wiles of the adversary desires schism within the ranks of religion.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

As the lawless Pharisees (not all of them) desired Jesus to be a separate entity from Abraham and Moses, so do many today want the same. In relation, God's will is for the Jews and the Gentiles to be as one in Christ, but as we can see, the wiles of the adversary desires schism within the ranks of religion.

As also today many still see and separate "Gentile Christian" from "Jewish Christian". The thing is there is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female in the body of Christ. I don't ever hear anyone distinguishing female Christian or male Christian - bond Christian or free Christian . . . .

I'm not sure what you mean "desired Jesus to be a separate entity from Abraham to Moses"?

 

[just-me]

As also today many still see and separate "Gentile Christian" from "Jewish Christian". The thing is there is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female in the body of Christ. I don't ever hear anyone distinguishing female Christian or male Christian - bond Christian or free Christian . . . .

I'm not sure what you mean "desired Jesus to be a separate entity from Abraham to Moses"?

What I indicate is that Jesus, Abraham and Moses are seen in different categories separated according to personal beliefs and understanding. The legalistic Pharisees refused to see Jesus as the true Messiah who created all things including those promises made to Abraham and Israel via Moses.

[SUP]"[/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:45-47)

They were accused through Moses because they thought they could be accepted by God through the law legalities (most of what they invented, now called the talmud) minus the faith required. Moses' and Abraham's faithful responses are our example and was theirs also. They were under the law and not free from the letter of the law or the law of sin and death. If they would have believed as Jesus was saying, they would be looking into the perfect law of liberty as James ( the brother of Jesus) wrote.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Now the Bible clearly says that Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah) is the KING of the Jews. Then it clearly enlightens the Gentiles that we are grafted into the true vine who is also King of the Jews. It continues to be said in His Word that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. I take it that the instruction for yesterday being given to God's children are the same as today. Christ fulfilled the sacrifice according to all those ordinances. Therefore those things have been physically annulled. The concept of sacrifice still is relevant however for we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable through our High Priest Jesus Christ. What is secret belongs to God. What has been given belongs to us.

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29:29)

Like Karraster said and I endorse from experience, many Christians today view the Torah as bondage, She and I see it as freedom from bondage. Its the "law of liberty" to those who believe. Communal thing ya know.

"I take it that the instruction for yesterday being given to God's children are the same as today."

Before the fall there was only ONE known "law" - You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. No sacrifices and no specific place to worship . . . Adam and Eve worshipped by being obedient to God. Before the flood man ate plants only . . . after the flood meat also became a part of man's diet. No Sabbath was required.

After the fall and the flood, laws were unclear but there were sacrifices and sacrificial requirements. Man set up altars and sacrifices were made wherever the people camped. Multiple wives, although not sanctioned by God, were allowed and no specific rules about "who" you could marry. . People that have multiple wives probably use the OT as reference that it is okay . . . or people that want to marry within their family can also use the OT as reference . . . (ex. : Abraham married half sister; Jacob married Rachel and Leah who were sisters

Then with the law restrictions were put in place concerning whom a person could marry although multiple wives was still allowed. Worship became tightly regulated. . . . Certain types of sacrifices and how they were done were spelled out in the Law of Moses. Sabbath rest was required.

Grace administration came . . . we worship whenever and wherever we want. No more sacrifices "for Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed [1 Co. 5:7]. We are to be married to ONE spouse - Each man is to have "his own wife" and each woman "her own husband". [1 Co. 7:2]. It is not sinful to eat any meat, although there are some foods that aren't good for you - it is up to the individual to make that decision (common sense). [1 Co. 10:25] There are NO special days. [Colossians 2:16,17; Romans 14:5,6] although it is good for your body to REST; it is not commanded.

There are a few rules that have changed . . . of course, if a rule from a previous administration is not specifically changed then it remains in effect . . . but to say that nothing has changed or that the same set of instructions are in place is not correct.

 

[just-me]

"I take it that the instruction for yesterday being given to God's children are the same as today."

Before the fall there was only ONE known "law" - You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. No sacrifices and no specific place to worship . . . Adam and Eve worshipped by being obedient to God. Before the flood man ate plants only . . . after the flood meat also became a part of man's diet. No Sabbath was required.

After the fall and the flood, laws were unclear but there were sacrifices and sacrificial requirements. Man set up altars and sacrifices were made wherever the people camped. Multiple wives, although not sanctioned by God, were allowed and no specific rules about "who" you could marry. . People that have multiple wives probably use the OT as reference that it is okay . . . or people that want to marry within their family can also use the OT as reference . . . (ex. : Abraham married half sister; Jacob married Rachel and Leah who were sisters

Then with the law restrictions were put in place concerning whom a person could marry although multiple wives was still allowed. Worship became tightly regulated. . . . Certain types of sacrifices and how they were done were spelled out in the Law of Moses. Sabbath rest was required.

Grace administration came . . . we worship whenever and wherever we want. No more sacrifices "for Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed [1 Co. 5:7]. We are to be married to ONE spouse - Each man is to have "his own wife" and each woman "her own husband". [1 Co. 7:2]. It is not sinful to eat any meat, although there are some foods that aren't good for you - it is up to the individual to make that decision (common sense). [1 Co. 10:25] There are NO special days. [Colossians 2:16,17; Romans 14:5,6] although it is good for your body to REST; it is not commanded.

There are a few rules that have changed . . . of course, if a rule from a previous administration is not specifically changed then it remains in effect . . . but to say that nothing has changed or that the same set of instructions are in place is not correct.

The law entered because of transgression. As we read in John chapter 1 and Colssians chapter 1 Jesus was in the beginning and created all things and is the same then as He is today. God works in sequence of events that are perfect and nothing He has ever given is subject to change in truth for He is perfect.

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." (Hebrews 13:8)

Our Lord Jesus Christ who has led us out of bondage and into His promise is the same as the Lord that led Israel out of bondage and into the promised land. There is a unchanging relevance to those two events.

Exodus 23:20-22
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

 

[just-me]

One more thing. In the instructions God gave to Israel through Moses, Gentiles were able to be incorporated into their ranks same as in the New Covenant through Christ Jesus.

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

The above is before the law was given.

Leviticus 25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

This is after the law was given. The law given to Moses only instructs the circumcision of the heart but not the flesh.