not under the law Galatians 5.

[Viligant_Warrior]

lol,....you called it...

Did you have anything else in mind brother?
perhaps some soap box derby highlights......

Yeah, except the "youth of America" are now -- and on this board -- the old f- .... well, we all know what I mean.

 

[Least]

The problem you have is this. When you state you are not under law if you do not sin, you are stating you are not under law if you perfectly obey the law. Therefore, you are dependant on obedience to the law(being under the law) in order not to be under it.
That, in reality places the individual firmly under the law. And the power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

Victory over sin, is knowing you are3 not under a law of righteousness. People may word their beliefs very well to try and avoid the obvious implications, but nonetheless it is the truth

Well, the way that I look at it is this:

If Paul had been a thief, or coveted, or was adulterous, or a liar, if he had worshiped false gods, or kept idols. How successful do you think his ministry would have been? He didn't do any of those things, because he was led by the spirit. He was not ruled by the flesh. All of those things that are the desires of the flesh have to be put under...so that we can walk by the spirit.

 

[michael56]

Well, the way that I look at it is this:

If Paul had been a thief, or coveted, or was adulterous, or a liar, if he had worshiped false gods, or kept idols. How successful do you think his ministry would have been. He didn't do any of those things, because he was led by the spirit. He was not ruled by the flesh.

Paul had been born again of the Holy Spirit. The law God required him to keep was written on his mind and placed on his heart, meaning he in his heart wanted to obey God. So there was no chance he was going to live a life contrary to what he in his heart wanted to live

And Paul knew where victory lay, it lay in dying to a law of righteousness and living by a law of faith in Christ. So if he in his heart wanted to obey, and he knew the way to obey, he wasn't going to live as you describe was he

 

[just-me]

"Under the law", not "under the law"... what does Paul mean? Maybe an illustration of "above the law" as opposed to "under the law" would be helpful. I'll preface this by saying an illustration does not prove a point, it simply illustrates one.

Suppose a dignified person is accused of sharing classified information with his mistress. This person ends up accepting a plea deal whereby he will avoid prison for admitting his wrongdoing. Some may respond to the news with questions like, "What, is he above the law? Anyone else would have been thrown in prison!"

What is meant here? Surely, no one is complaining that this man is "above the law" in the sense that he is not obligated to keep the law in the same manner as the rest of us. No one expects he has a golden pass to do whatever he likes or that he is under some different set of laws. The chief complaint is that, when found in transgression of the law, he appears to be not subject to the penalty of the law.

So then, if "above the law" means not subject to the penalty of the law, then what does "under the law" mean? To be "under the law" would then mean to be subject to the penalty of the law. This is what some on this board have tried to explain. When someone puts their faith in the Messiah and not in their own works for salvation, that person is taken from underneath the law, meaning they are no longer subject to the penalty of transgressing it. In that sense, they are "above the law," but that does not imply one has the free right to transgress it. There is no "right to sin" for the believer. The believer is to grow in the knowledge and understanding of what is sin and walk in the Spirit to avoid it.

Amen brother. Good analogy for sure. "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." (James 4:10)

 

[Least]

Paul had been born again of the Holy Spirit. The law God required him to keep was written on his mind and placed on his heart, meaning he in his heart wanted to obey God. So there was no chance he was going to live a life contrary to what he in his heart wanted to live

And Paul knew where victory lay, it lay in dying to a law of righteousness and living by a law of faith in Christ. So if he in his heart wanted to obey, and he knew the way to obey, he wasn't going to live as you describe was he

Paul said that he dies daily, he also spoke of the flesh being put under.

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It wasn't just automatic, he had to overcome the flesh, and the sin...just as we do.

 

[dcontroversal]

Is not Christ the end of the law FOR righteousness to those who believe? Romans 10:4

Is not the righteousness of God without the law applied unto those who believe? Romans 3:21-22

Are not true believers justified and found innocent of the law based upon faith and Christ? Romans 3:24, Galatians 2:16-17

 

[michael56]

Paul said that he dies daily, he also spoke of the flesh being put under.

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

It wasn't just automatic, he had to overcome the flesh, and the sin...just as we do.

How was victory achieved? How was the flesh overcome?

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh(ourselves) Phil 3:3

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! Gal2:19-21

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace Rom 6:14

would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh(yourself) Gal3:2&3

I would say, the closer you come to God, the more you love him, the more you will want to boast of what He has done in your life, and is doing for you. You will not want to put the emphasis on self, or take any of the credit, but put the emphasis on God, and for Him to have all the glory. As Paul did

 

[Least]

How was victory achieved? How was the flesh overcome?

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh(ourselves) Phil 3:3

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! Gal2:19-21

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace Rom 6:14

would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh(yourself) Gal3:2&3

I would say, the closer you come to God, the more you love him, the more you will want to boast of what He has done in your life, and is doing for you. You will not want to put the emphasis on self, or take any of the credit, but put the emphasis on God, and for Him to have all the glory. As Paul did

There's no way to overcome without Jesus, yet we do have a part in it.

The New Testament has 27 books, There isn't one single book in the NT that doesn't go into instruction in overcoming and being pleasing to God.

I love Philippians 3, In Paul's own words, even of himself he said...and read it carefully...

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul didn't just sit around doing nothing and claiming that he had, "arrived."

Not until much later:

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

What? Paul pressed on? Paul fought the good fight? Works? And yes...there was a finish line. And yes, once again, Paul talked about dying to himself and putting the flesh under.

Paul knew that the only way to overcome was by abiding in Christ, knowing HIM even as HE knows us. For without HIM we can do nothing. But Paul most certainly didn't just sit around doing nothing. But there's no way a person can be led by Christ and led by the flesh at the same time...He followed the words of God, and kept them.

"If you walk by the spirit and not by the flesh." Seriously, have you overcome the flesh? Have you arrived?

 

[michael56]

There's no way to overcome without Jesus, yet we do have a part in it.

The New Testament has 27 books, There isn't one single book in the NT that doesn't go into instruction in overcoming and being pleasing to God.

I love Philippians 3, In Paul's own words, even of himself he said...and read it carefully...

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul didn't just sit around doing nothing and claiming that he had, "arrived."

Not until much later:

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

What? Paul pressed on? Paul fought the good fight? Works? And yes...there was a finish line. And yes, once again, Paul talked about dying to himself and putting the flesh under.

Paul knew that the only way to overcome was by abiding in Christ, knowing HIM even as HE knows us. For without HIM we can do nothing. But Paul most certainly didn't just sit around doing nothing. But there's no way a person can be led by Christ and led by the flesh at the same time...He followed the words of God, and kept them.

"If you walk by the spirit and not by the flesh." Seriously, have you overcome the flesh? Have you arrived?

Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[SUP][c][/SUP] faith for his name’s sake Rom1:5

You are right, we have to do our part. What is our part? We have to love God with all our heart. When we do that, we look away from ourselves and to Christ, and trust him to change us through the sanctification of the Holy Spirit. We realise we are helpless to change ourselves, or bring ourselves to live evermore Holy lives. We obey, through looking to Christ and trusting him.

It is not so hard to quote verses of scripture is it:

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy Rom 9:16

 

[Least]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning. Our Lord and Savior! I Don't want to miss one part of anything that HE has said.

[video=youtube;7LscdVVeTQc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LscdVVeTQc[/video]

 

[michael56]

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning. Our Lord and Savior! I Don't want to miss one part of anything that HE has said.

[video=youtube;7LscdVVeTQc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LscdVVeTQc[/video]

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28&29

Absolutely.

You keep stressing what man must do, and I will keep stressing what God can do in those who trust in His Son.

 

[Least]

"The King is coming" song has been on my heart for the past few days. Hence the video...but just a note that I do not endorse the pictures or the rapture contained in the video...just the song.

 

[Least]

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28&29

Absolutely.

You keep stressing what man must do, and I will keep stressing what God can do in those who trust in His Son.

Well Paul, Timothy, Peter, and JESUS, spoke a whole lot about what we must do.

What more can I say?

 

[michael56]

Well Paul, Timothy, Peter, and JESUS, spoke a whole lot about what we must do.

What more can I say?

Obedience comes from Faith(Paul)

The work of God for us is faith in Christ (Christ's words)

Justification comes from faith(Paul and Christ)

We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.(Paul again)

We can have no confidence in the flesh-ourselves (Paul again)

As one Evangelist put it

''The Flesh(ourselves) can only get in the way of God working in our lives

 

[Least]

Obedience comes from Faith

Justification comes from faith

We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

As one Evngelist put it

''The Flesh can only get in the way of God working in our lives

Have you not been reading through my posts? Exactly why the flesh must be put under.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

We can't walk by the Spirit and be led by the flesh at the same time.

 

[michael56]

Have you not been reading through my posts? Exactly why the flesh must be put under.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I could ask you if you have been reading my posts:

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh(that is zero confidence in yourself) Phil3:3

 

[Least]

I could ask you if you have been reading my posts:

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh(that is zero confidence in yourself) Phil3:3

Cute video...lol

[/QUOTE

[video=youtube;TiUCjPdeAsg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiUCjPdeAsg[/video]]

 

[gotime]

this makes no sense.

If I am not in sin and obeying the law. I do not need grace, I have earned it.

I am under grace, ONLY because I still sin.

It makes plenty of sense.

Your reply shows you are not getting what I am saying.

obeying the law is not something we do for God it is Gods grace working in us. So if it is God working in us then how have we earned it?

and if it is Gods Grace that does it how could I not continue to need it?

Take it away and We go back to our flesh.

Please understand that we are not suggesting that it is our efforts or our ability that does these things. No we have died with Christ and it is no longer us that lives. so how then can a dead man boast?

but Christ lives in us and he does the works and the life we live we live by faith in the son of God that gave himself for us.

 

[gotime]

No. That's backwards. Its by the Grace of God that we are given the Spirit.

This Grace is fully embodied in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Must be just wording cause I kinda thought that was my point.

 

[gotime]

I don't know how to explain this problem cause you guys are simply not understanding my point of view. it is often said that we are just reading the letter but missing the Spirit well no offence but you do the same thing when you quote verses that by letter seem to say by themselves what you want but they do not when the greater context is included.

Some say we mix works with Grace and call it Luke warm, but I call serving two masters Luke warm mixing sin with victory.

So putting such things aside that do not help a bit let us move on.