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RememberTheSabbathDay · Mar 14, 2015

Brother Keeth,

"His name shall be called Immanuel." By coming to dwell with us, Jesus was to reveal God both to men and to angels. He was the Word of God,...God's thoughts made audible. In His prayer for His disciples He says, "I have declared unto them Thy name,"..."merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,".."that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them, and I in them." But not alone for His earthborn children was this revelation given. Our little world is the lesson book for the universe. God's wonderful purpose of grace, the mystery of redeeming love, is the theme.

Brother Keeth, just as Jesus showed His disciples the audible (Word/God) in the flesh through mercy, grace, long-suffering, and abundance in goodness and truth, we likewise are to be the audible Words of Christ in showing forth these works of grace. It's by grace that we are saved and not of works but its because of the grace of Christ's love for us that we do the works of mercy, grace, long-suffering, and abundance in goodness and in truth. These are the first works that God has given us to do to humanity. This is the character of Christ that we are to reveal to the world.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

michael56 said:

The bible says that if you sin you place yourself back under the law because you have been draw away by your own lusts.
This is in James, and he says in there that if you let it become full grown and control you again it leads to death and not eternal life.

Being in Christ one can not sin because Christ does not sin, and love is the opposite of sin, so if a person is walking totally in the Spirit as we are told to do then sin is impossible to do. Yet we are still in the flesh in our bodies, so when we do sin again as John says if we confess that/those sins then the Lord being just will forgive us of those sins and cleanse us of the unrighteousness. Nowhere does the bible say all sins are forgiven before repentance or confession is made for them, and this does not mean we have a free will to sin because we can just confess it for forgiveness. Because the bible also says that if there is no change in ones life, and no fruit produced worthy of repentance then it was not a true repentance.

The scriptures that you give from Hebrews 10 comes after repentance is made, once you repent/confess your sin then He cleanses you of that unrighteousness and not remember it and to not be used against you at judgment.

No more sacrifice of animals is needed because Jesus was the one time perfect sacrifice, but we are still told by Jesus, Paul, Peter, and even in Hebrews that repenting/confessing of the sins and being baptized are needed to receive that remission through the Lord for His blood to cover those sins.

Keep reading in Hebrews 10 as it says exactly how to enter the kingdom of heaven (eternal life), as we have to use the whole chapter and not just a few verses from it;

[h=1]Hebrews 10:19-27[/h]19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

( This is repentance, baptism, and being born again all in one verse. )

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

(If you sin willfully/deliberately after receiving the truth of salvation through Christ, you will face God's judgment and be sent to the lake of fire.)

Jason0047 · Mar 14, 2015

michael56 said:

Yet, Paul asks the question, "Shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law?" Paul replies, "God forbid." In addition, Paul also lists various sins many times like murder, hate, fornication, stealing, lying, idolatry, and drunkenness, etc.; And then he says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Meaning, those who practice those types of sins as a way of life will not be in Heaven. For the Condemnation mentioned in Scripture says if a person does not repent (or turn from their evil ways) they have not truly come to the Light (Who is Christ) (See John 3:19-21). Why did they not come to the Light? It says, they loved their evil.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

michael56 said:

I am not clinging to my own righteousness.
I am defending the righteousness that comes from the Holy Spirit, and the fruits of the Spirit that will be evident in every born again believer. The fruits of the Spirit can not lead one to sin, so when one sins it is their own doing by obeying the flesh and not the Spirit. From there you chose to stay in that sin, or repent/confess it to the Lord. A born again believer will repent/confess it to Him because they will feel the Godly sorrow for grieving the Holy Spirit.

Once again I will restate we alone can not uphold God's standards in the moral commands, however under the new covenant we are not alone as we have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within us. The scriptures make it clear that through Him all things are possible, yet some still speak as though they don't have the Spirit by saying it is still impossible to uphold His commands. That is putting limitations on God by doing this, as God can make anything possible in our lives through His indwelling Spirit within us.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

michael56 said:

You still have God's moral laws that is written in our hearts and placed on our minds.
This does not mean we just know about them, and do not walk in them. It means that by love we uphold the commandments of God by walking in the as an everyday way of life, and not look at them as a set of laws and also not to consider them burdensome or impossible to keep. The reason for this is we have the Holy Spirit to listen to in order to guide us in the right direction, but the bible says some will not listen to the Holy Spirit. Speaking against the Holy Spirit and denying His power and gifts that work in and through a believer.

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

No those words do not get overlooked, they just don't get placed before they are given.

You teach you are already redeemed now, because you believe you already have physical possession of salvation.

Yet Ephesians 4:30 says sealed tell the day of redemption, meaning the redeeming into eternal life comes later. And Paul gives a strict warning with this scripture, as he says do not grieve the Holy Spirit by still living a sinful lifestyle and follows with what the things a believer must put off (stop doing) in their lives and how they are to walk.
Then Paul continues in chapter 5 saying you must be imitators of God by walking in love and again to put off the works of the flesh (sins), as nobody who continues to do those things he says will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Then Paul says do not let anybody fool us in verse 5:6 that those who walk in disobedience will face God's wrath for continuing in darkness instead of walking in the light......

More works for salvation heresy from you.....you quote scripture without understanding and are blind to the words I listed and their true meanings...just like the word justified.....blind..........!

pem · Mar 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Ken , i just read your bio . Please find yourself a good place to worship under an Ordained Pastor as I fear you still have much of Roman catholic errors in your veins . It can take years to extract popery from your soul. This is no attack on you. - 21 years ago i was an arminian premill dispensational zionist Rapture Cult KJVonly Baptist - That is many heresies ! .........so i know how things are looking just now. There are folk here who have been where you are now , pointing you in the right direction because we care Ken xx

michael56 · Mar 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

It is one thing to quote the literal letter, quite another to understand the message that letter contains.

Why, is the Christian not under a law of righteousness? As I keep stating, the new covenant comes in two parts, this is the first part:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds

What does the above mean? It means the law God wants you to keep is written on your mind so you instinctively know how God wants you to live and it is placed on your heart. What law is on your heart? Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not bear false witness etc. If those laws are on your heart, in your heart you want to obey them, you do not want to disobey them. God is perfect, because you in your heart want to lives as he desires you to, the second part of the new covenant is them applicable:

Then he adds:“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary

Those under the old covenant had to offer sacrifices for sins. The sacrifices were not offered for sins before they entered the covenant, but once they had entered it. Those who enter the new covenant do not need to offer sacrifices for forgiveness of sins, why not? Because their sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more unto condemnation. Why is this so? Because Jesus paid a once and for all time sacrifice for sins for those who are born again of the Holy Spirit, hence they are not under a law of righteousness. And Jesus will be no ones saviour from sin unless they have been born again for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart to live as His Father desires them to.
But the Christian has not been born again in the flesh, neither are they a pre programmed robot who perfectly follows the manual.

The power of sin is being under the law(1Cor15:56

So why do so many Christians find they hardly move forward in their lives and see little progress?
I would say the main reason is because ''Christians'' in effect place them straight back under the law. They tell them unless the law is upheld, they will be condemned to hell. Thereby the power of sin remains for them. It is at best a weak message, or a naïve one, and one that shows the people making it do not understand what being born again of the Holy Spirit entails. At worst it is a hypocritical message for those making it do not attain to what they demand of others.
Victory over sin is in knowing the penalty of sin(sins true power) has been removed from your life. Your message states, unless the law is upheld you are condemned. Therefore, your message leaves the power of sin firmly in place. However you may try and skilfully word your message, that is what you are stating.
I feel sorry for those genuine Christians who believe you, for you cannot live up to what you preach. That is hypocrisy, which was the yeast of the Pharisees

Jason0047 · Mar 14, 2015

So it's better if Christians are just anarchists and lawless (Living for themselves and sin instead of God)? That doesn't make any sense. God's people are good, they are not evil. To say so otherwise is just wrong (And you know it).

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Salvation (lite), teaching works for salvation, worshipping an Anglican version of the bible and to automatically assume and attribute your first line to anyone is also just as inflammatory and contrary to the truth......!

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

pem said:

Ken , i just read your bio . Please find yourself a good place to worship under an Ordained Pastor as I fear you still have much of Roman catholic errors in your veins . It can take years to extract popery from your soul. This is no attack on you. - 21 years ago i was an arminian premill dispensational zionist Rapture Cult KJVonly Baptist - That is many heresies ! .........so i know how things are looking just now. There are folk here who have been where you are now , pointing you in the right direction because we care Ken xx

Amen to that for sure...........

michael56 · Mar 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

'''It is one thing to quote the literal letter, quite another to understand the message that letter contains.

Why, is the Christian not under a law of righteousness? As I keep stating, the new covenant comes in two parts, this is the first part:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds

What does the above mean? It means the law God wants you to keep is written on your mind so you instinctively know how God wants you to live and it is placed on your heart. What law is on your heart? Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not bear false witness etc. If those laws are on your heart, in your heart you want to obey them, you do not want to disobey them. God is perfect, because you in your heart want to lives as he desires you to, the second part of the new covenant is them applicable:

Then he adds:“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary

Those under the old covenant had to offer sacrifices for sins. The sacrifices were not offered for sins before they entered the covenant, but once they had entered it. Those who enter the new covenant do not need to offer sacrifices for forgiveness of sins, why not? Because their sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more unto condemnation. Why is this so? Because Jesus paid a once and for all time sacrifice for sins for those who are born again of the Holy Spirit, hence they are not under a law of righteousness. And Jesus will be no ones saviour from sin unless they have been born again for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart to live as His Father desires them to.
But the Christian has not been born again in the flesh, neither are they a pre programmed robot who perfectly follows the manual.

The power of sin is being under the law(1Cor15:56

So why do so many Christians find they hardly move forward in their lives and see little progress?
I would say the main reason is because ''Christians'' in effect place them straight back under the law. They tell them unless the law is upheld, they will be condemned to hell. Thereby the power of sin remains for them. It is at best a weak message, or a naïve one, and one that shows the people making it do not understand what being born again of the Holy Spirit entails. At worst it is a hypocritical message for those making it do not attain to what they demand of others.
Victory over sin is in knowing the penalty of sin(sins true power) has been removed from your life. Your message states, unless the law is upheld you are condemned. Therefore, your message leaves the power of sin firmly in place. However you may try and skilfully word your message, that is what you are stating.
I feel sorry for those genuine Christians who believe you, for you cannot live up to what you preach. That is hypocrisy, which was the yeast of the Pharisees ''''

Was your comment in response to my above post? Surely not!

michael56 · Mar 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jason
Do you need the penalty of sin in place in order to encourage you to obey God?

If a person loves God in their heart, do they need that penalty in place to encourage them to obey?

mjrintercessor · Mar 14, 2015

That was a good one i most definatly have been saved by works just not my own. I agree with you mitspa I believe we do recieve rewards for works . It is just not the foundation of salvation as paul says in 1 corinthians 3. Provided the works are done by the grace of God by the spirit

mjrintercessor · Mar 14, 2015

If you are born again you will always be born again. If you sin you will grieve the holy spirit. The bible says do not grieve the holy spirit in whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption. You can rest in christ for your salvation. God knows the end from the begining. God knew judas would betray him for 30 pieces of silver. God knew who would choose him before the world began. To add anything to saving faith then what was required of the thief on the cross . Is to make yourself a minister of Satan .

mjrintercessor · Mar 14, 2015

That is good michael only a true born again christian could give the answer you gave amen

gb9 · Mar 14, 2015

michael56 said:

and this is what certain people can't get their minds around. it is like going to work everyday fearing that you will be fired if you make the slightest mis-step. I just do not see how folks like that have any joy in their relationship with Christ.

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

gb9 said:

I know......how can there be any confidence, hope and no fear if one believes they can lose salvation......the problem is quite simple......the workers for salvation will say that you can lose salvation if you sin....yet they never seem to sin enough to lose it or they don't ever sin and will say that they walk perfect before God.........My bible teaches that a man who trusts into Christ is saved, justified, sealed and sanctified forever in Christ......based upon a once for all act.......it is based upon the completed work of Christ and his continual mediation before the Heavenly Father on behalf of the saved and those who will be saved!

Jason0047 · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

When one says that they do not uphold any kind of Law is a doctrine of immorality. Paul says he establishes the Law. This of course is not speaking about obeying the 613 Commands in the Law of Moses.

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

Jason0047 said:

The righteousness of God without the law is applied unto all who genuinely exercise biblical, saving faith......

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