SAVED BY WORKS

Ahwatukee · Mar 14, 2015

By the way, I disagree with the loss of authority that you brought up.

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

"Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

Forgive me but, the above does not sound like loss of authority.

Scripture is clear that, if a believer turns back to the sinful nature and remains there and dies in that state, they will be accountable for their sins. The following is a warning to believers:

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

Salvation requires on-going faith in Christ and not just a one time cofession. If you go back to wilfully living in the sinful nature, you are not having faith.

simplytruth · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

I have been reading your responses on other threads and I have to ask...supposing President Obama was saved at some point before becoming president.....under OSAS would he qualify as saved even though he had done all those anti God things???

Momo10 · Mar 14, 2015

Thank you I will read Romans 13 and Hebrews 4. I do really know that none of the commandments were done away with. This is why I need to ask cause someone I know was somewhat arguing this fact with me. Thank you.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

You do not need to try and teach me a man made added philosophy, as you are either sons by adoption or you are not.
And even being a son by adoption we are told we have been grafted in because of our belief in Him, yet if we do not continue in His kindness (grace) the bible says we to will be cut off just like the Jews who do not believe for that disobedience.
It says in that same scripture those Jews if they continue in unbelief will not be grafted back in.
I understand our fellowship with the Lord, and that we do take ourselves out of that fellowship whenever we sin as the bible makes it clear you grieve the Holy Spirit for sinning. John says you have to confess that sin to be forgiven, and James takes it one step further and says if you let it get full grown to where it controls your life again it will lead you to the second death and not eternal life.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Timothy 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
(Obedience to the faith)

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Momo10 · Mar 14, 2015

Thank you I will read Romans 13 and Hebrews 4. I do really know that none of the commandments were done away with. This is why I need to ask cause someone I know was somewhat arguing this fact with me. Thank you.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

Momo10 said:

No problem as this is one of the biggest issues in the bible that I try to stay away with when it comes to the law teaching.
Some make the word law completely dirty, and any talk about it others seem to think those who defend the 10 commandments are teaching falsely. Yet they were not done away with except in the written ordinance form.

Here is a chart on a few places the 10 Commandments are still upheld by believers in the New Testament;

Old Testament New Testament
--------------- ----------------

First
Commandment
Exodus 20:3;
Deuteronomy 5:7 Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7

Second
Commandment
Exodus 20:4-6;
Deuteronomy 5:8-10 Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5

Third
Commandment
Exodus 20:7;
Deuteronomy 5:11 Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7

Fourth
Commandment
Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15 Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6

Fifth
Commandment
Exodus 20:12;
Deuteronomy 5:16 Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3

Sixth
Commandment
Exodus 20:13;
Deuteronomy 5: 17 Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9

Seventh
Commandment
Exodus 20:14;
Deuteronomy 5:18 Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9

Eighth
Commandment
Exodus 20:15;
Deuteronomy 5:19 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21

Ninth
Commandment
Exodus 20:16;
Deuteronomy 5:20 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25

10th
Commandment
Exodus 20:17;
Deuteronomy 5:21 Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3, 5

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

simplytruth said:

The same thing can be said about Hitler because he grew up in a well devote Christian home, yet look at the horrible things he did to the Jews.

KJV1611 · Mar 14, 2015

The law is not for the righteous man... only for the unrighteous period!

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

No you can not because I know who said that on here and it was only tow of you, counting you.
Hebrews 10 clearly says they will face God's judgment (verse 31), and His judgment is the lake of fire which is what verse 27 says a fiery indignation that will devour those against God. Destroyed in the lake of fire !!!

Revelation 2:5 has nothing to do with taking away their authority, as He says when He comes again and they have not repented and returned to Him they will not receive their place in the kingdom of heaven (no salvation). He says they have to overcome to eat from the tree of life ( receive eternal life), if they do not repent they will not get to eat from that tree and will be blotted out and sent to the lake of fire.

Stephen63 · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

No.... "dude", The OSAS claims salvation can't be lost & when someone talks about obedience (or the lack of it), all you guys cry is "we're not saved by works".

I NEVER said or believed we're saved by works..... It's "by grace through faith", "not of works, lest any man should boast".

But..... those who believe they can STAY SAVED without works..... fruits of repentance, obedience, doing the things Jesus commanded, doctrines the apostles taught..... all thru 1 & 2Corinthians, Paul told the church what they needed to repent of & how they were supposed to live for God, all of this required works of righteousness, fruits of repentance, evidence that they lived what they believed. Yet, in spite of all this doctrine, you REFUSE to believe it. Jesus said it plainly:
Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

John 15:1-8 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

OSAS doesn't believe the words of Jesus written above, that the righteous "in Him" can lose their salvation by the fruit they bear..... How then can they be saved when they refuse Jesus' words?

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

By the way, I disagree with the loss of authority that you brought up.

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

"Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

Forgive me but, the above does not sound like loss of authority.

Scripture is clear that, if a believer turns back to the sinful nature and remains there and dies in that state, they will be accountable for their sins. The following is a warning to believers:

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

Salvation requires on-going faith in Christ and not just a one time cofession. If you go back to wilfully living in the sinful nature, you are not having faith.

Disagree all you want...I suggest you study what it means to have the candlestick (stirred out of the way)......!

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

Stephen63 said:

No.... "dude", The OSAS claims salvation can't be lost & when someone talks about obedience (or the lack of it), all you guys cry is "we're not saved by works".

I NEVER said or believed we're saved by works..... It's "by grace through faith", "not of works, lest any man should boast".

But..... those who believe they can STAY SAVED without works..... fruits of repentance, obedience, doing the things Jesus commanded, doctrines the apostles taught..... all thru 1 & 2Corinthians, Paul told the church what they needed to repent of & how they were supposed to live for God, all of this required works of righteousness, fruits of repentance, evidence that they lived what they believed. Yet, in spite of all this doctrine, you REFUSE to believe it. Jesus said it plainly:
Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

John 15:1-8 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

OSAS doesn't believe the words of Jesus written above, that the righteous "in Him" can lose their salvation by the fruit they bear..... How then can they be saved when they refuse Jesus' words?

Your first three lines place salvation in your hands by your works no matter how much you deny, twist and reject the truth.

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Ignorance seems to pour forth from you on a regular basis......the context IS forsaking the assembling together and in so doing you count the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing.....keep working your way and see how far it gets you.....I would drink plenty of water while you are still alive though!

Ella85 · Mar 14, 2015

Momo10 said:

I like your dog

Stephen63 · Mar 14, 2015

Stephen63 said:

No.... "dude", The OSAS claims salvation can't be lost & when someone talks about obedience (or the lack of it), all you guys cry is "we're not saved by works".

I NEVER said or believed we're saved by works..... It's "by grace through faith", "not of works, lest any man should boast".

But..... those who believe they can STAY SAVED without works..... fruits of repentance, obedience, doing the things Jesus commanded, doctrines the apostles taught..... all thru 1 & 2Corinthians, Paul told the church what they needed to repent of & how they were supposed to live for God, all of this required works of righteousness, fruits of repentance, evidence that they lived what they believed. Yet, in spite of all this doctrine, you REFUSE to believe it. Jesus said it plainly:
Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

John 15:1-8 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

OSAS doesn't believe the words of Jesus written above, that the righteous "in Him" can lose their salvation by the fruit they bear..... How then can they be saved when they refuse Jesus' words?

dcontroversal said:

Really? What about the 29 lines after that? Go on & explain the rest, you've started digging the hole for yourself.....

psychomom · Mar 14, 2015

why do i get the feeling some of us believe we'll stand at the judgment
like it's some kinda IRS audit??

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

Stephen63 said:

Maybe in your mind.....Like I said, you go ahead and trust into your works....I will trust Jesus.....and if you took more than 2 seconds to read anything I have written you would understand the truth.....

Faith alone SAVES

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......maybe it is foolish to you to just believe and be saved...but not according to JESUS....

HE that BELIEVETH on the SON HATH everlasting/eternal LIFE.....

Trust your religion, I will take Jesus at his word.....!

dcontroversal · Mar 14, 2015

psychomom said:

Going to be many a worker for salvation get cast into hell because they trusted into their works over the faith and blood of Jesus.....

psychomom · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

so sad.

kennethcadwell · Mar 14, 2015

dcontroversal said:

The context in Revelation 2:5 has nothing to do with the assembling together and counting the blood of Jesus a common thing.

It says they left their first love, meaning they turned away from the Lord.
Jesus says to repent and do the first works, meaning they need to return to Him or they will not be welcomed in the kingdom of heaven and given to eat from the tree of life (verse 7). I constantly can not see how you continue to interject things that are not in those scriptures.
Jesus starts off in chapter 2 about how He remembers their labor in love for the faith, and the things that they did. But then in verses 4-5 shows they have fallen away from the faith in Him by no longer doing those things. He tells them to repent and return back to obedience in the faith (first works), or He will come (second coming) and they will be removed from receiving the inheritance.

This scripture parallels the passage from Luke 12:42-48 of the disobedient servant, where the Lord says if He comes back and finds any of His servants not doing His will in their life He will cut them in two and appoint them a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers. Jesus even says those who are disobedient to the faith will be punished harder then those who just lived in unbelief.

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